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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [DJFaithful] [ In reply to ]
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DJFaithful wrote:
Culley22 wrote:


For "critter" scenarios I carry a S&W Scandium .357. Very light, but I notice it when on me. Pulling the trigger when loaded with Buffalo Bore ammo...hurts. Hurts very much. But when faced with a Grizzly, I'll take some hand/arm pain over being chewed on.


It's like getting hit with a baseball bat in your open hand, full swing! I used to practice at the range with 38 in my SW scandium J frame, but occasionally I would shoot 357, as that's what I would carry with. I'd shoot two rounds and just stop, thinking "why?" Why get hit with a baseball bat three MORE times?
That is EXACTLY how I describe it too. I rarely shoot the 357s through it, and every time I do I regret it. I've only gone through 3 Buffalo Bore rounds before I couldn't shoot it again (arm to elbow was numb and my hand...was just brutalized).

but I disagree with your stance on the .380. It wouldn't be my first choice, but it's better than reaching into yoru pocket and just grabbing your dick. Lol
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [dhr] [ In reply to ]
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I think that arguing about the size/type of gun is a bit moot.

If you're a bad man and pull over to hassle a lycra clad cyclist (or djust drive beside him), and the cyclist points any gun at your face, you're gunna think twice about proceeding with the discussion. Even if you (the bad guy) have a Dirty Harry hand held howitzer, you're still gunna think twice about leaving the altercation with any sort of slug in your face. I mean, if a .22 slug goes in your eye from close range, you're still gonna be dead. And if it doesn't go in your eye, you're still gunna have a nasty scar. Are wimpy ass cyclists worth it even to a toothless redneck? I think mostly No.

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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Great points. But, in order to really answer the question we need to consider...

If Jesus rode a bike, where would He conceal his Glock?
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [Culley22] [ In reply to ]
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Culley22 wrote:
DJFaithful wrote:
Culley22 wrote:


For "critter" scenarios I carry a S&W Scandium .357. Very light, but I notice it when on me. Pulling the trigger when loaded with Buffalo Bore ammo...hurts. Hurts very much. But when faced with a Grizzly, I'll take some hand/arm pain over being chewed on.


It's like getting hit with a baseball bat in your open hand, full swing! I used to practice at the range with 38 in my SW scandium J frame, but occasionally I would shoot 357, as that's what I would carry with. I'd shoot two rounds and just stop, thinking "why?" Why get hit with a baseball bat three MORE times?

That is EXACTLY how I describe it too. I rarely shoot the 357s through it, and every time I do I regret it. I've only gone through 3 Buffalo Bore rounds before I couldn't shoot it again (arm to elbow was numb and my hand...was just brutalized).

but I disagree with your stance on the .380. It wouldn't be my first choice, but it's better than reaching into yoru pocket and just grabbing your dick. Lol

I've never shot Buffalo Bore through it. I think that might crack a wrist. Just some regular 357. As far as the 380, I don't recall saying that reaching in to grab my dick was better than grabbing the 380? : ) I said I'd sooner carry a can of pepper spray.
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [GAscott] [ In reply to ]
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GAscott wrote:
Being armed doesn't always prevent a crime
http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/...article34330491.html

Quote:
Cyclist robbed at gunpoint at Columbus bike trail
A 42-year-old man told Columbus Police that another man robbed him at gunpoint Monday at the bike trail between Hilton Avenue and Willis Road.
The Columbus man said the gunman aimed a pistol at him and demanded his property. Within minutes, the thief had fled the scene with the victim's bookbag,
SIG Sauer P226 firearm and a Motobecane mountain bike collectively worth $1,250, according to the report.
So that bike was worth $300? Last time I checked the classic aluminum Sigs were $950. Also, carrying a full size pistol? They like being uncomfortable?

Anyone who thinks they could effectively use a gun while on a bike, when the bad guys are the ones to initiate the confrontation and they are either in an ambush or they have a car, they are apparently unable to engage their brain properly and reason through the situation.

Let's face it. We know it. You should know it. You like the feeling you have when you carry a gun. That's it. Call it false sense of security or whatever it is. It isn't rationally reasoned out. Feelings are fine, but not when safety is concerned. You need to be cold and calculating.
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [tridork] [ In reply to ]
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tridork wrote:
I think that arguing about the size/type of gun is a bit moot.

If you're a bad man and pull over to hassle a lycra clad cyclist (or djust drive beside him), and the cyclist points any gun at your face, you're gunna think twice about proceeding with the discussion. Even if you (the bad guy) have a Dirty Harry hand held howitzer, you're still gunna think twice about leaving the altercation with any sort of slug in your face. I mean, if a .22 slug goes in your eye from close range, you're still gonna be dead.

With that logic we'd all be carrying BB guns! I would never use a gun to intimidate someone. I'd only use it to stop a threat as quickly as possible. If it's pointing at a bad guy, it'll shortly be discharging on the bad guy.
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [HBB] [ In reply to ]
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XDS .45. in my concealed carry Galco holster in a small backpack on my back. I only carry on certain rides and certain distances.

SFuels
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [DJFaithful] [ In reply to ]
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DJFaithful wrote:

With that logic we'd all be carrying BB guns! I would never use a gun to intimidate someone. I'd only use it to stop a threat as quickly as possible. If it's pointing at a bad guy, it'll shortly be discharging on the bad guy.

Agreed!! If you pull it, you use it. It is only pulled as a last case, all I have left scenario.

Here is a situation: You have a CC on you, and you're in a gas station/store. Robber comes in and has a firearm and is robbing the store. Do you pull your firearm and confront the robber?

My answer: nope. Unless I'm fearful that I'm gonna die, or that person is going to kill the clerk, the robber walks. I'm not there to be a hero. My CC is to protect my life, and (if I feel) another person's immediate safety. It isn't a "hero prop". It's just a tool.
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [Dilbert] [ In reply to ]
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Dilbert wrote:
GAscott wrote:
Being armed doesn't always prevent a crime
http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/...article34330491.html

Quote:
Cyclist robbed at gunpoint at Columbus bike trail
A 42-year-old man told Columbus Police that another man robbed him at gunpoint Monday at the bike trail between Hilton Avenue and Willis Road.
The Columbus man said the gunman aimed a pistol at him and demanded his property. Within minutes, the thief had fled the scene with the victim's bookbag,
SIG Sauer P226 firearm and a Motobecane mountain bike collectively worth $1,250, according to the report.

So that bike was worth $300? Last time I checked the classic aluminum Sigs were $950. Also, carrying a full size pistol? They like being uncomfortable?

Anyone who thinks they could effectively use a gun while on a bike, when the bad guys are the ones to initiate the confrontation and they are either in an ambush or they have a car, they are apparently unable to engage their brain properly and reason through the situation.

Let's face it. We know it. You should know it. You like the feeling you have when you carry a gun. That's it. Call it false sense of security or whatever it is. It isn't rationally reasoned out. Feelings are fine, but not when safety is concerned. You need to be cold and calculating.
I agree.
For all the arguments put forward to justify carrying a gun, it's pretty obvious the real reason is not rational at all.
The comments about Europeans and Canadians being ignorant and emotional, making generalisations about americans and getting their ideas from TV shows is extremely ironic.
The arguments for carrying a gun are statistically flawed and are essentially excuses to justify an emotional need. The language being used by several of the pro gun carrying guys is straight out of a TV show "perps", "bad guys", "gang bangers", "hill billies" - it's TV shows and paranoia with 0.1% reality mixed in. I presume I'm included in the accusations of ignorant generalistions? - I'm basing my assertions on many sources, including perhaps 20 visits to the US since the late 90s including working there for a while at one stage. My mention of TV shows in the earlier post was not suggesting I thought they accurately reflected reality but rather that the fact they exist and indeed are the rule, not the exception, says a lot about the psychology of those producing them (having said that I fully realise they're consumed outside the US too). Setting both of those sources of information aside, some of the comments in this thread alone are enough to confirm much of what I said in my earlier post. And I did make a point of stating that my comments only applied to a certain contingent of the US population. Funnily, those complaining about sweeping statements are I suspect within that contingent ;) but I didn't make sweeping statements.
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [DJFaithful] [ In reply to ]
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I'm pretty sure when you can use deadly force varies from state to state.

But to no one in particular, Jim Jefferies gun control.



DJFaithful wrote:
xgep wrote:
DJFaithful wrote:
1. One can legally use deadly force only when confronted by deadly force.


Please stop saying this as it is not true in the United States. The standard for the use of deadly physical force in defense of yourself or another is the immediate danger of death or grave bodily injury. I can reference you to case law and state statutes if you would like but stop providing bad information.

Immediate danger of death. Deadly force. Huge difference? I don't see it. I've taken a few NRA courses, and I have a pretty good idea of when one may use a firearm.
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [Culley22] [ In reply to ]
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Culley22 wrote:
DJFaithful wrote:


With that logic we'd all be carrying BB guns! I would never use a gun to intimidate someone. I'd only use it to stop a threat as quickly as possible. If it's pointing at a bad guy, it'll shortly be discharging on the bad guy.


Agreed!! If you pull it, you use it. It is only pulled as a last case, all I have left scenario.

Here is a situation: You have a CC on you, and you're in a gas station/store. Robber comes in and has a firearm and is robbing the store. Do you pull your firearm and confront the robber?

My answer: nope. Unless I'm fearful that I'm gonna die, or that person is going to kill the clerk, the robber walks. I'm not there to be a hero. My CC is to protect my life, and (if I feel) another person's immediate safety. It isn't a "hero prop". It's just a tool.

Reminds me of an incident that happened a few years ago, somewhere in the US. I forget where. Similar scenario to yours, one customer has a CC in a leg holster, two armed robbers. The CC customer went along with the robbery, had no intention of interceding, UNTIL the two perps began to gather the store employees and customers, himself included, into a back room. The CC guy felt his life was threatened at that point, quickly reached for the gun in the leg holster and shot and killed both armed robbers.
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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Ai_1 wrote:

For all the arguments put forward to justify carrying a gun, it's pretty obvious the real reason is not rational at all.
The comments about Europeans and Canadians being ignorant and emotional, making generalisations about americans and getting their ideas from TV shows is extremely ironic

That's completely off-topic. Do you have a right in your country to defend yourself with a handgun? If not, why comment in this thread? I'm too lazy to go sifting through the entire thread to see where you're from.
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [DJFaithful] [ In reply to ]
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DJFaithful wrote:
Ai_1 wrote:


For all the arguments put forward to justify carrying a gun, it's pretty obvious the real reason is not rational at all.
The comments about Europeans and Canadians being ignorant and emotional, making generalisations about americans and getting their ideas from TV shows is extremely ironic


That's completely off-topic. Do you have a right in your country to defend yourself with a handgun? If not, why comment in this thread? I'm too lazy to go sifting through the entire thread to see where you're from.
It's irrelevant where I'm from. In all honesty I don't know what I could legally carry. Hunting rifles and guns for target shooting are certainly legal subject to certain provisions and I believe it's legal to use a gun for self defence, however I don't think it's legal to carry a gun in public. I know no-one who feels this is a problem, indeed it's not something anyone could care less about. Why would anyone want a gun except for sporting pursuits? It's just a very strange idea. Why do you think the rights surrounding firearms are relevant to my participation in this discussion? IMO neither my rights nor yours make it a good idea. A right is not a compulsion. Legality and morality are very different things.
It's legal to do lots of stupid things. Does that mean we should all go out of our way to do those stupid things? I'm inclined to think not, and to me carrying a gun while cycling is very obviously going out of one's way to do a stupid thing.
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [HBB] [ In reply to ]
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I used to ride in Chicago, and no, I'd never carry while riding...
Kind of off topic, but if wildlife (bears) were your concern, I've seen people throw a can of wasp spray in a bottle cage. Bear spray doesn't work. Wasp spray has the reach and effectiveness for bears, so I hear. At least thats what the folks in Southern Oregon do.
If people are your concern, I present exhibit A:

Probably change your riding route. :D
Good luck!
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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Ai_1 wrote:
DJFaithful wrote:
Ai_1 wrote:


For all the arguments put forward to justify carrying a gun, it's pretty obvious the real reason is not rational at all.
The comments about Europeans and Canadians being ignorant and emotional, making generalisations about americans and getting their ideas from TV shows is extremely ironic


That's completely off-topic. Do you have a right in your country to defend yourself with a handgun? If not, why comment in this thread? I'm too lazy to go sifting through the entire thread to see where you're from.


Why do you think the rights surrounding firearms are relevant to my participation in this discussion? IMO neither my rights nor yours make it a good idea.


Because it's off-topic. You have a favorite holster, or perhaps a favorite caliber you can recommend to the OP? Perhaps you have a favorite brand of ammunition? If you want to discuss gun rights, you ought to start another thread. I have lots of thoughts about your subject, the whole Euro "government-knows-whats-best-for-ya" thing, but it's also off-topic in this thread.
Last edited by: DJFaithful: Jan 18, 16 18:12
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [imsparticus] [ In reply to ]
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imsparticus wrote:
I'm pretty sure when you can use deadly force varies from state to state.

But to no one in particular, Jim Jefferies gun control.



DJFaithful wrote:
xgep wrote:
DJFaithful wrote:
1. One can legally use deadly force only when confronted by deadly force.


Please stop saying this as it is not true in the United States. The standard for the use of deadly physical force in defense of yourself or another is the immediate danger of death or grave bodily injury. I can reference you to case law and state statutes if you would like but stop providing bad information.


Immediate danger of death. Deadly force. Huge difference? I don't see it. I've taken a few NRA courses, and I have a pretty good idea of when one may use a firearm.
No point me typing anything more. No one cares and I'm just not going to come off as being terribly entertaining.... I therefore defer to Jim Jefferies!
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [Dilbert] [ In reply to ]
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Dilbert wrote:
Let's face it. We know it. You should know it. You like the feeling you have when you carry a gun. That's it.
No one needs to carry a gun on a bike. (Excluding police who patrol while riding bicycles.) But some folks want to carry a gun.

(Just a thought. I've never considered going for a bike ride with a gun, so I've never looked into it. But what sort of laws and restrictions would come into play, especially considering the different jurisdictions you might be riding through? Are you considered to be operating a vehicle while you're riding on a street or highway? Can you have the gun loaded while you're riding? Would you be required to dismount your bike before you can start shooting?)


"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [DJFaithful] [ In reply to ]
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DJFaithful wrote:
Ai_1 wrote:
DJFaithful wrote:
Ai_1 wrote:


For all the arguments put forward to justify carrying a gun, it's pretty obvious the real reason is not rational at all.
The comments about Europeans and Canadians being ignorant and emotional, making generalisations about americans and getting their ideas from TV shows is extremely ironic


That's completely off-topic. Do you have a right in your country to defend yourself with a handgun? If not, why comment in this thread? I'm too lazy to go sifting through the entire thread to see where you're from.


Why do you think the rights surrounding firearms are relevant to my participation in this discussion? IMO neither my rights nor yours make it a good idea.


Because it's off-topic. You have a favorite holster, or perhaps a favorite caliber you can recommend to the OP? Perhaps you have a favorite brand of ammunition? If you want to discuss gun rights, you ought to start another thread. I have lots of thoughts about your subject, the whole Euro "government-knows-whats-best-for-ya" thing, but it's also off-topic in this thread.
Okay, I said I was finished but.....
If you're just saying I'm off topic - fine. But that's really what you're saying, you're implying that somehow, the location from which I'm saying it has some relevance. How would that be the case? If I was your next door neighbour would my comments miraculously be topical? Incidentally, I don't think I ever mentioned anything vaguely resembling "the whole Euro "government-knows-whats-best-for-ya" thing" so it's news to me that this is my subject! Right, it's late. I'm off to bed. Darn I may have given something away there ;)
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [HBB] [ In reply to ]
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HBB wrote:
Crimes are not being committed by lawful conceal carry people, rather thugs who have no regard for the law and would just as soon run you off the road and steal your expensive bike


Can you provide a documented instance were someone was run off the road and their bike stolen?
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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Ai_1 wrote:
Okay, I said I was finished but.....
If you're just saying I'm off topic - fine. But that's really what you're saying, you're implying that somehow, the location from which I'm saying it has some relevance. How would that be the case? If I was your next door neighbour would my comments miraculously be topical? Incidentally, I don't think I ever mentioned anything vaguely resembling "the whole Euro "government-knows-whats-best-for-ya" thing" so it's news to me that this is my subject! Right, it's late. I'm off to bed. Darn I may have given something away there ;)

Good. You'll be thinking more clearly after some sleep. : )
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [imsparticus] [ In reply to ]
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imsparticus wrote:
I'm pretty sure when you can use deadly force varies from state to state.

The specific language in each state varies slightly. But in general follows the language used by Supreme Court rulings. The Supreme Court cases which have ruled on it (generally related to use of force by police) include Graham V. Connor and Tennesse V. Garner. The only major variation in self defense laws in the US deal with 'duty to retreat' restrictions, and those are in place in a minority of states anyway.
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [xgep] [ In reply to ]
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xgep wrote:
imsparticus wrote:
. The only major variation in self defense laws in the US deal with 'duty to retreat' restrictions, and those are in place in a minority of states anyway.

I think "stand your ground" is a significant variation since it expands the home-based castle doctrine to any place where a person has a right to be.
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [DJFaithful] [ In reply to ]
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DJFaithful wrote:
Ai_1 wrote:

Okay, I said I was finished but.....
If you're just saying I'm off topic - fine. But that's really what you're saying, you're implying that somehow, the location from which I'm saying it has some relevance. How would that be the case? If I was your next door neighbour would my comments miraculously be topical? Incidentally, I don't think I ever mentioned anything vaguely resembling "the whole Euro "government-knows-whats-best-for-ya" thing" so it's news to me that this is my subject! Right, it's late. I'm off to bed. Darn I may have given something away there ;)


Good. You'll be thinking more clearly after some sleep. : )
Had some sleep, thinking clearly and I stand by my comments.
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [Dilbert] [ In reply to ]
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dilbert wrote:
US is a big place. It's like saying "Europe is safe". Well Ukraine is in Europe.













Compton? Oh wait, Ukraine is a country...
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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Sifting through this thread and ignoring the 80% of usual anti-gun crap and worse, anti American crap and addressing the OP ..........

There are a number of weapons that will fit into a jersey pocket easily. I have carried a SIG P238 in such a manner without a holster. Pistol in a baggie and cocked and locked. I don't see any purpose in carrying while on a group ride. But riding alone is another matter. And furthermore I do not believe that rural or being in the city makes any difference. However some caveats.

It's probably illegal to do this unless you have a CCL. And I cannot see any situation in which I would open carry. On or off the bike :) Additionally, since a few people mentioned it, putting the weapon on the bike probably raises more questions than it answers. Is a Bicycle considered to be a vehicle ? Probably yes. What are the rules for carrying a weapon in a vehicle ? Most states ( OK I'm guessing here ) probably dictate that the weapon be concealed. That's probably going to be a deal breaker on a bicycle.

Additionally - if carrying a weapon in a jersey pocket imagine taking a spill while exercising your "right" - landing on that bulge is going to hurt. A Lot. So the middle back pocket on the Jersey is probably better than the two outside pockets.

Keeping moisture off the gun would be a problem. Thus the baggie.
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