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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [dhr] [ In reply to ]
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dhr wrote:
I have a little Glock 26 that I still think would be obnoxious to carry on most rides.

Is something even smaller really ineffective or would it be better than carrying nothing? I do most of my training indoors, and live in rural Ohio, so it's not something I need to think about much.

If you are a Glock guy, then how about a Glock 43? With a Desantis pocket holster, fits great in center back pocket of a jersey and doesn't print much because of the square design of the holster. Still get a 9 mm, but very small. Same sights/feel you are used to, etc.

Can also use a belly band for any single stack 9 mm and very tight, but sweaty ;-)

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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [HBB] [ In reply to ]
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HBB wrote:
I knew we'd get the ignorants all wound up with a post like this, but they can't help it, since they don't understand. Crimes are not being committed by lawful conceal carry people, rather thugs who have no regard for the law and would just as soon run you off the road and steal your expensive bike. As a law abiding conceal carry citizen, who fully understands the responsibility that comes with this, I am merely looking for good suggestions that others have for carrying.

As I see it "Crimes are never committed by law abiding citizens!"

Everyone is born a law abiding citizen and will stay that way until...they don't.
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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Well, as I mentioned earlier, this is getting away from the intent of this post, but let me play along with this hypothetical situation.

I'm out riding on my usual route in an unpopulated area. BillyBob and his brother in their pickup decide they don't like guys in Lycra sharing the road with me, so they decide to make life difficult for me. They try to run me off the road, they threaten me repeatedly and finally force me to stop or maybe even crash. I've tried to get away, but they're not giving up. They threaten me with bodily harm, getting out of their truck with a baseball bat and start coming at me such that I feel my life is in imminent danger. With my conceal carry, I would at least have the option to let them know that I am carrying and am willing to use it to protect myself.


"For those who understand, no explanation is necessary. For those who don't understand, no explanation is possible."
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [HBB] [ In reply to ]
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HBB wrote:
But bad things happen and bad guys can be found anywhere.

Just like winning the lottery, although it happens, these things won't happen to you.

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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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To some people, it's not about the odds, it's about the stakes.
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [rijndael] [ In reply to ]
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Okay let's say stakes. Stakes are some poor SOB gets shot with your gun a few days later... because the bad guys crashed you off your bike on purpose, stole the bike and the gun while you were on the ground in pain.

Listen to those who do this for a living. Firearm needs to be easily accessible and you need to be trained in how to use it in high stress situations. And the training needs to be frequent. Gun on a bike or even a fanny pack, with a complacent rider because you carried for years without anything ever happening before, and untrained, is not a recipe for successful self defense.

Stop and think for a second. If anything ever happens while riding it will be someone crashing you off the bike to steal your stuff. How is concealed carry going to help you?
Last edited by: Dilbert: Jan 18, 16 10:25
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [HBB] [ In reply to ]
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HBB wrote:
I'm sure there are lots of scenarios depending on where one trains, either riding or running. Being proactive is never a bad idea.

Running with a pistol, that is just freaking hilarious to me. I don't even like running with a water bottle or cell phone!

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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [HBB] [ In reply to ]
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Everyone that I know that carries on the bike carries in a fanny pack. Whatever you do, don't mount it on the bike; a huge percentage of the scenarios where you might actually want to have access to a firearm while cycling involve getting knocked off the bike.

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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [Dilbert] [ In reply to ]
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Dilbert wrote:
And the training needs to be frequent.
That depends on your level of proficiency. I can stop shooting for nearly year and I'd be at 90% of where I left off, which is still substantially faster and more accurate than average. Some skills are highly perishable, like your ability to track the front sight through recoil, but overall proficiency doesn't fade very quickly. I've tested this on more than a few occasions, where I went from shooting 40K rounds / year to zero.
Last edited by: rijndael: Jan 18, 16 10:09
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [HBB] [ In reply to ]
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HBB wrote:
Well, as I mentioned earlier, this is getting away from the intent of this post, but let me play along with this hypothetical situation.

I'm out riding on my usual route in an unpopulated area. BillyBob and his brother in their pickup decide they don't like guys in Lycra sharing the road with me, so they decide to make life difficult for me. They try to run me off the road, they threaten me repeatedly and finally force me to stop or maybe even crash. I've tried to get away, but they're not giving up. They threaten me with bodily harm, getting out of their truck with a baseball bat and start coming at me such that I feel my life is in imminent danger. With my conceal carry, I would at least have the option to let them know that I am carrying and am willing to use it to protect myself.

But suppose Billy Bob decides to leave the baseball bat in the pickup and just starts slapping your Lycra-covered ass around with his bare hands while Joe Bob just sits back and laughs?
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [NAB777] [ In reply to ]
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NAB777 wrote:
kiwi. wrote:
HBB wrote:
I'm sure there are lots of scenarios depending on where one trains, either riding or running. Being proactive is never a bad idea.


Avoiding areas where you think you need a gun for protection is never a bad idea either.


Like the U.S.

That's quite a society you've got.
Don't do that. That is just as uninformed as the OP asking the question.

US is a big place. It's like saying "Europe is safe". Well Ukraine is in Europe. And so Detroit or Compton or Lakewood (Pierce county where like half of all episodes of the TV show Cops were filmed) are in the US. So is my small town in Washington state where the police are bored to death and have nothing better to do but to sit behind billboards looking for speeding drivers. US is huge. Not all of us live in crime infested cities. In fact most of us don't. Our society has never been safer, statistically. The 24/7 news cycle, and the continuous media coverage mostly centered around covering crime and disasters, makes everyone think the US is a war zone, including many Americans. It isn't so.
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [rijndael] [ In reply to ]
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rijndael wrote:
To some people, it's not about the odds, it's about the stakes.

Those people failed math
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [rijndael] [ In reply to ]
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rijndael wrote:
Dilbert wrote:
And the training needs to be frequent.
That depends on your level of proficiency. I can stop shooting for nearly year and I'd be at 90% of where I left off, which is still substantially faster and more accurate than average. Some skills are highly perishable, like your ability to track the front sight through recoil, but overall proficiency doesn't fade very quickly. I've tested this on more than a few occasions, where I went from shooting 40K rounds / year to zero.
You are talking about shooting at stationary targets at a range?

What about 3 or 4 live moving targets, shooting back at you? Right after you crashed a bike? To top it all off, they planned all that and sprung it on you unawares. They got the element of surprise. Also, that'd be the first time you are ever facing that situation, while those lowlifes have probably done it before.

Think about that.
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [Dilbert] [ In reply to ]
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Dilbert wrote:
Okay let's say stakes. Stakes are some poor SOB gets shot with your gun a few days later... because the bad guys crashed you off your bike on purpose, stole the bike and the gun while you were on the ground in pain.

Listen to those who do this for a living. Firearm needs to be easily accessible and you need to be trained in how to use it in high stress situations. And the training needs to be frequent. Gun on a bike or even a fanny pack, with a complacent rider because you carried for years without anything ever happening before, and untrained, is not a recipe for successful self defense.

Stop and think for a second. If anything ever happens while riding it will be someone crashing you off the bike to steal your stuff. How is concealed carry going to help you?

I corrected the typos in the bolded.

The first time they had me jog a 1/2 mile while I was at the Academy, and then attempt some target practice was very eye opening. It was difficult hitting the target once my HR was elevated. That was just aiming at a stationary paper target. I had one experience in my career where I had my gun drawn and thought I was going to have to pull the trigger. It was by far the most stressful thing imaginable. My HR was probably like 200+, adrenaline was jacked through the roof, I couldn't hear anything, I had tunnel vision, etc. I didn't sleep for like two days. Thankfully, cooler heads prevailed and I didn't have to shoot anyone.

And I'm pretty well trained in the grand scheme of things. The high stress component in all this is something people don't understand unless they have experienced it. This isn't TV and the movies.

Now Johnny Spandex out riding his bike isn't going to do shit besides cause an even bigger problem than would have existed had he not been armed. Just my professional $.02 on the matter.

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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [Dilbert] [ In reply to ]
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Dilbert wrote:
You are talking about shooting at stationary targets at a range?
Plenty while I'm moving, some while the targets are moving, and I have done force on force - just like this:

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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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The GMAN wrote:
Dilbert wrote:
Okay let's say stakes. Stakes are some poor SOB gets shot with your gun a few days later... because the bad guys crashed you off your bike on purpose, stole the bike and the gun while you were on the ground in pain.

Listen to those who do this for a living. Firearm needs to be easily accessible and you need to be trained in how to use it in high stress situations. And the training needs to be frequent. Gun on a bike or even a fanny pack, with a complacent rider because you carried for years without anything ever happening before, and untrained, is not a recipe for successful self defense.

Stop and think for a second. If anything ever happens while riding it will be someone crashing you off the bike to steal your stuff. How is concealed carry going to help you?


I corrected the typos in the bolded.
:D Thanks. Been typing since I was 10 (Sinclair? Commodore? One or the other) and still can't type.
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [HBB] [ In reply to ]
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I usually try to stay out of these discussions. Situational awareness and using your surroundings to your advantage is greatly compromised when riding a bike. You are exposed on the road on a bike in a world of cars. Your head is down, you can't easily see behind you, you can't always hear behind you. You are wearing shoes that limit your ability to run, no easy way to carry a weapon, and you are out in the middle of nowwhere standing out like a sore thumb. Maybe you are tired, bonking, sore legs, weakened condition. This is a very vulnerable position and I can see where having a weapon on you would make you feel a bit safer. I just don't see a reasonable way to implement this however. I personally do not want a holstered handgun in my jersey pocket nor do I want a fanny pack or a frame mounted holster. It just seems to be a huge pain in the neck. I guess I am willing to accept a bit of risk. By the way, the old Time shoes with brass cleats made a very effective improvised weapon. I did have to employ this once. It is a shame that the shoes today are so lightweight and have relatively low mass cleats.
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [Tracker09] [ In reply to ]
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Not only did they fail math they don't even understand the stakes part of the equation. You are far more likely to be shot if you are carrying a gun than if you are unarmed (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...articles/PMC2759797/).

At the end of the day the evidence is very clear, carrying a firearm increases your risk of getting shot in an altercation, so there is no use in trying to bring logic into the argument.
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [KG6] [ In reply to ]
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Wow. A certain contingent of the US population seem to have a weird obsession with guns and are oblivious to how odd that is. It's understandable, I suppose, given it's pervasiveness. All sorts of things, some utterly ridiculous, are considered completely normal within societies that don't question them (making arguments to support a position is not the same as questioning it). From US politics and especially US TV and film you'd think it was a complete national obsession but I don't think that's entirely true. But in my opinion they've definitely been unhealthily normalised.

The other thing I find striking is that US culture seems intent on finding someone to be the bad guy in every situation. There isn't always a "bad guy". Sometimes it's just a guy, confused, depressed, trapped in a corner, or just an accident. Bad things happen sometimes. This idea that as long as the people with guns are "good guys" we're solving the problem not making it worse, is deluded. If you've a society of people walking around, many of them perpetually scared and carrying guns, people will die unnecessarily. If the response is to get more guns then you're not solving anything.
Sure, bad things happen and whatever about society in general, an individual may be able to protect themselves with a gun. But historically guns are far better at causing injuries and talking lives than saving them. You surely know this, but as long as you have a gun you feel more powerful and safer as an individual (although you probably shouldn't) and so you don't really care how illogical the whole situation is. It's basically a societal cold war for anyone who feels the need to buy into it. The whole good guys/bad guys and guns thing is just childish but since you've enthusiastically fostered this view for so long it's become inevitable that it seems real and reasonable to you now.

Not everything can be predicted and/or prevented. Shit happens. Accept this and enjoy life. The alternative is to be a terrified victim of religious, political and idealogical propaganda looking for easy answers to make you feel safe. A gun is not an answer to a violent society, even if it makes you feel safer. You're just fooling yourself.

Right, I'm off my soapbox.
back to bikes - have a pleasant ride.
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [HBB] [ In reply to ]
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To answer your actual question.... Ruger LCP is very common and well liked, and smaller than the palm of my hand. Or Taurus TCP. both 6+1 .380 No bigger than a cell phone and easily carried/accessible in your jersey pocket. They also make a pocket holster where it can be safely accessed without even removing from the holster to fire. Or a cell phone case sized hard plastic holster. Easy to carry while riding, they have different options more suited to running.

I don't wish to engage in the debate as to whether you should carry or not, that's your decision/right ;-)
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [USPro Tri] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you, this and a few other responses were exactly what this thread was about and I appreciate your response.


"For those who understand, no explanation is necessary. For those who don't understand, no explanation is possible."
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [USPro Tri] [ In reply to ]
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USPro Tri wrote:
To answer your actual question.... Ruger LCP is very common and well liked, and smaller than the palm of my hand. Or Taurus TCP. both 6+1 .380 No bigger than a cell phone and easily carried/accessible in your jersey pocket. They also make a pocket holster where it can be safely accessed without even removing from the holster to fire. Or a cell phone case sized hard plastic holster. Easy to carry while riding, they have different options more suited to running.

I don't wish to engage in the debate as to whether you should carry or not, that's your decision/right ;-)

IMO those .380 guns are pop guns, more likely to get you killed (or sued) than to protect you.

1. One can legally use deadly force only when confronted by deadly force.

2. If one intends to use a gun based on #1 being satisfied, you had damn well drop your assailant quickly, (using a 9mm minimum) otherwise, using your pop gun .380, although he may bleed to death in an hour, he'll have plenty of time to use his weapon on you. Good chance his weapon isn't a "pop gun."

Never "shoot to wound." The presumption is that, legally, one only pulls his firearm and uses it because one believes his life is in danger. Shooting only to wound implies to a jury that you weren't 100% convinced your life was in jeopardy.
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [HBB] [ In reply to ]
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I ridden frequently through the west side and south side of Chicago and never felt even slightly threatened. If you really feel the need to ride strapped, I feel sorry for you. Riding with a gun isn't going to help you.

Also, this type of thread always brings out the Europeans and or Canadians with broad brush pronouncements based on what they saw on last night's Law and Order episode. Don't you guys ever get tired of the same old superior/judgmental crap? These very same people are the ones who love to label Americans "arrogant" and/or "ignorant" without even sensing the irony.
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Re: Conceal Carry Recommendations [USPro Tri] [ In reply to ]
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Good choice. I just went with a S&W Shield, as it's 9mm so a bit more punch and also is really thin, so a little easier to hide. It came extremely well recommended and just took it out for the first shoot last night. Nice, and can't wait to loosen it up a bit more. It replaced my Beretta Tomcat, which was really small, but a bit under what I preferred.

USPro Tri wrote:
To answer your actual question.... Ruger LCP is very common and well liked, and smaller than the palm of my hand. Or Taurus TCP. both 6+1 .380 No bigger than a cell phone and easily carried/accessible in your jersey pocket. They also make a pocket holster where it can be safely accessed without even removing from the holster to fire. Or a cell phone case sized hard plastic holster. Easy to carry while riding, they have different options more suited to running.

I don't wish to engage in the debate as to whether you should carry or not, that's your decision/right ;-)
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