Collins Cup - INT v USA v EUR

Jul 27, 22 3:31

Post #1 of 517 (12234 views)

After the PTO Tour race at Edmonton I said:
Sodaro gets a Collins Cups slot (as #3 USA): AQ with Knibb, Moench and Hering.
Metzler drops from list (no 2022 scoring race)
Jewett and Salthouse stay as #3 and #4 INT, with Findlay and Gentle as #1/#2.
Neumann moves to #3 INT and AQ (with Sanders, Currie and Laundry)
No US man (eg Kanute) scores enough to overtake Leiferman who, with von Berg, Hanson and Long, are the USA 'AQ4'.
WPRO and MPRO EUR: just see top 4 ranked athletes on 'World' list (and btw Frodeno and Charles drop from list: no 2022 finish).

DavidC wrote:

26 July, 2022
London: The Professional Triathletes Organisation today confirmed the Collins Cup automatic qualification places for Team Europe, Team USA and Team Internationals, ahead of the second edition of the event on 20 August at the extraordinary x-bionic® sphere in Bratislava.

For Team Europe the four qualified women are: Daniela Ryf (SWI), Anne Haug (GER), Laura Philipp (GER) and Kat Matthews (GBR). The four men are: Kristian Blummenfelt (NOR), Gustav Iden (NOR), Patrick Lange (GER) and Magnus Ditlev (DEN).

For Team USA the top four women are: Taylor Knibb, Skye Moench, Chelsea Sodaro and Jackie Hering. The four men are: Matt Hanson, Sam Long, Rudy Von Berg and Chris Leiferman.

For Team Internationals the four women are: Paula Findlay (CAN), Ashleigh Gentle (AUS), Tamara Jewett (CAN) and Ellie Salthouse (AUS). The four men are: Lionel Sanders (CAN), Braden Currie (NZL), Max Neumann (AUS) and Jackson Laundry (CAN).

The automatic qualifications were finalised after this weekend’s PTO Canadian Open, the first-ever PTO Tour event.
More at: https://protriathletes.org/...am-places-confirmed/

Each team has four 'Captain's Picks': two M two W.
Speculation:
INT: Baptista, Duffy, Smith, Royle
USA: Jackson, Watts, Chartier, Kanute
EUR: Pallant, Spririg, Baekkegaard, Angert
Prize (attendance) money: https://thecollinscup.protriathletes.org/prize-money/

Last edited by: Ajax Bay: Aug 18, 22 6:36

Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]

Jul 27, 22 3:58

Post #2 of 517 (12201 views)

Eu is just so much stronger. And both Lucy and Jan are even out with injuries!
I wonder if in the future they should do Team EU vs Rest of world as i feel like eu is just too strong to make it interesting, ofcourse that could change over the years

Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [lassekk] [ In reply to ]

Jul 27, 22 4:05

Post #3 of 517 (12194 views)

Don't know about you, but despite being a European I can't bring myself to root for Europe, it's just so ridiculously strong. I prefer an underdog. My heart was with the U.S. last year, this year maybe I'll support the Internationals.

As for an alternative team structure, the European Union versus North America versus Rest of World might work. That way the British, the Swiss and the Norwegians (Skipper, Brownlee, Matthews, Lee, Ryf, Blu, Iden) join the Australians at Rest of World, and the Canadians (Sanders, Laundry, Beals, Findley, Jewett) join the Americans. Both the U.S. and the Internationals will gain and Europe will be significantly weakened (while still retaining top talent like Frodeno, Lange, Baekkegard, Chevrot, Laidlow, Angert, Ditlev, Haug, Philipp, Norden, Perez Sala and maybe the French short course contingent).

"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

Last edited by: kajet: Jul 27, 22 4:19

Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [kajet] [ In reply to ]

Jul 27, 22 5:14

Post #4 of 517 (12122 views)

How about this?

1. Europe
2. The Commonwealth (UK, AUS, NZ, etc.—Canada excluded)
3. The Americas (US, Canada, Latin America, etc.)

Don’t ask what happens when another part of the World has an elite athlete

Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [Waingro] [ In reply to ]

Jul 27, 22 5:45

Post #5 of 517 (12085 views)

I've been banging the drum for a Commonwealth team since this thing was announced.

Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [Jackets] [ In reply to ]

Jul 27, 22 7:11

Post #6 of 517 (12035 views)

I agree. The way it is set up now, Europe could put in a 1A and a 1B team and still go 1-2.
So deep in men's and women's field.

Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [Waingro] [ In reply to ]

Jul 27, 22 7:25

Post #7 of 517 (12021 views)

Waingro wrote:

How about this?

1. Europe
2. The Commonwealth (UK, AUS, NZ, etc.—Canada excluded)
3. The Americas (US, Canada, Latin America, etc.)

Don’t ask what happens when another part of the World has an elite athlete

Canada has to be part of a Commonwealth team.

Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [Jackets] [ In reply to ]

Jul 27, 22 12:17

Post #8 of 517 (11925 views)

Ahhh the Commonwealth...the UK's attempt to continue to stay disproportionately globally relevant.

Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [Jackets] [ In reply to ]

Jul 27, 22 12:28

Post #9 of 517 (11911 views)

Jackets wrote:

Waingro wrote:

How about this?

1. Europe
2. The Commonwealth (UK, AUS, NZ, etc.—Canada excluded)
3. The Americas (US, Canada, Latin America, etc.)

Don’t ask what happens when another part of the World has an elite athlete

Canada has to be part of a Commonwealth team.

Nope. “America’s Hat” has to roll with the USA. We’ll take Bermuda too while Flora is around.

Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [Waingro] [ In reply to ]

Jul 27, 22 12:34

Post #10 of 517 (11900 views)

I'd love to get a poll over this, athletes count as 100 votes, I reckon the majority of Comm athletes would vote to race in a Comms team.

Away from the politics side of the argument it would make the teams a lot more balanced (unless you're racing or watching outside Europe/US/Comm then maybe they could fit into another team at team captain discretion.

Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [Jackets] [ In reply to ]

Jul 27, 22 12:56

Post #11 of 517 (11862 views)

This "solution" of removing International for the Commonwealth excludes so many countries that I don't even know where to begin.

The "issues", though I see none since there has only been one Collins Cup, are that Europe is too strong and the US too weak. Removing the UK athletes to a Commonwealth, you will still have an incredibly strong European team and a weaker US team.

Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [mkq] [ In reply to ]

theyellowcarguy

Jul 27, 22 14:00

Post #12 of 517 (11820 views)

I honestly think those are really strong teams across the board. I might agree they would be lopsided if this was an Ironman distance, but it's not. I think all three teams have a strong shot, especially depending on how the matchups go. Looking forward to watching the race!

My Strava | My Instagram | Summerville, SC | 35-39 AG | 4:41 (70.3), 10:05 (140.6) | 3x70.3, 1x140.6 | Cat 2 Cyclist

Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [theyellowcarguy] [ In reply to ]

Jul 27, 22 16:28

Post #13 of 517 (11772 views)

theyellowcarguy wrote:

I honestly think those are really strong teams across the board. I might agree they would be lopsided if this was an Ironman distance, but it's not. I think all three teams have a strong shot, especially depending on how the matchups go. Looking forward to watching the race!

Yes, remember that with the 10% bonus for best full distance the rankings are skewed favouring those who've raced well already this year full distance (mainly WC at St George and Roth). Over 70.3 and it's more balanced and over 100km, even more so.
How are Gentle and Findlay going to fare against Ryf and Matthews over 100km? Will Knibb be fit enough to accept her slot? Will Duffy accept a 'Captain's Pick' or will her priority be to find a 70.3 she can get her bike to. Last year the USA women were really strong (helped in part by epic fails from Ryf and Haug who both then won a week later, btw (IM Swi and Roth)). Haven't got the Zaferes wildcard this time. But the USA men were the weak link in that team.

Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [Waingro] [ In reply to ]

Jul 27, 22 21:46

Post #14 of 517 (11648 views)

Waingro wrote:

How about this?

1. Europe
2. The Commonwealth (UK, AUS, NZ, etc.—Canada excluded)
3. The Americas (US, Canada, Latin America, etc.)

Don’t ask what happens when another part of the World has an elite athlete

I would make one addition:

1. Scandinavia (put Bækkegård in the lineup for Europe and you're already there on the mens side).
2. Europe sans Scandinavia
3. The Commonwealth (UK, AUS, NZ, etc.—Canada excluded)
4. The Americas (US, Canada, Latin America, etc.)

Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [mkq] [ In reply to ]

Jul 27, 22 21:46

Post #15 of 517 (11648 views)

a commonwealth team might be slightly more meaningful than rest of the world but i don't think enough so to make up for the complications of excluding the rest of the rest of the world.

what they absolutely have to do though is to come up with a kit that doesn't look like an australian team, otherwise the kiwi athletes might refuse to race, i'm sure they're still feeling itchy after wearing those colours last year!

Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [pk1] [ In reply to ]

Jul 27, 22 22:05

Post #16 of 517 (11634 views)

pk1 wrote:

a commonwealth team might be slightly more meaningful than rest of the world but i don't think enough so to make up for the complications of excluding the rest of the rest of the world.

what they absolutely have to do though is to come up with a kit that doesn't look like an australian team, otherwise the kiwi athletes might refuse to race, i'm sure they're still feeling itchy after wearing those colours last year!

That was indeed a terrible kit! Especially since the European one looked so clean!

Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [AS88] [ In reply to ]

Jul 27, 22 23:43

Post #17 of 517 (11595 views)

My first thought was “why make the teams so contrived and artificial”, but then I recalled Super League and their Sharks, Grizzly Bears and what not and your idea already looks better.

Not as good as North America, European Union, Rest of World, of course.

"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [kajet] [ In reply to ]

Jul 28, 22 3:05

Post #18 of 517 (11513 views)

kajet wrote:

Not as good as North America, European Union, Rest of World, of course.

I might like this one even more than the Commonwealth idea

Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]

Jul 28, 22 3:35

Post #19 of 517 (11488 views)

BigBoyND wrote:

kajet wrote:

Not as good as North America, European Union, Rest of World, of course.

I might like this one even more than the Commonwealth idea

Might work, but think suddenly RoW are dominant (NB with non-EU GBR, NOR and SUI)
EU women very weak indeed. NA men weak, even with Sanders to bolster the very weak USA men.
More interested in dark horse possible wildcards for 2022, to be frank. Will be announced next week, apparently.

Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]

Jul 28, 22 3:40

Post #20 of 517 (11485 views)

Or we could just get wild and creative and let the 3 Team Managers select one "Captain" ranked 1-10, each team Captain then has to select one person from 11-20, 21-30, 31-40, 41-50.

Beauty of this would be some lower ranked up and comers get a chance at exposure (or we get to see nepotism at play LOL)

David T-D
http://www.tilburydavis.com

Last edited by: tilburs: Jul 28, 22 4:52

Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [tilburs] [ In reply to ]

Jul 31, 22 9:13

Post #21 of 517 (11171 views)

PTO (31 Jul, edited for punctuation):
"The Collins Cup Captains' Picks will be announced shortly.
"The Captains: Dave Scott, Julie Moss, Normann Stadler, Natascha Badmann, Craig Alexander and Erin Baker, are all legends in our sport. They have been working together with the goal of picking athletes who they feel will strengthen their teams. This is a tough job, with so many amazing athletes to consider."
Levison offers his picks: https://www.tri247.com/...ildcards-predictions
For mine (last week) see the OP.

Last edited by: Ajax Bay: Jul 31, 22 9:38

Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]

Jul 31, 22 9:27

Post #22 of 517 (11160 views)

Something I haven't liked about the shtick of calling these people captains. They're effectively fantasy sports general managers. So call them Coach or Manager. A captain is a leader on the field/course as an athlete.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]

Jul 31, 22 11:27

Post #23 of 517 (11112 views)

„Captain” is from tennis terminology (the Davis Cup). Maybe golf, too?

"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [kajet] [ In reply to ]

Jul 31, 22 11:37

Post #24 of 517 (11101 views)

It is now in the Ryder Cup, but that was not always the way. Playing Captain's were a thing until 1963. Palmer being the last captain to play.

It just doesn't do it for me. Would love for Jan to be named captain and have to pick guys. I'm kinda over the people they are using, it's like our entire viewing demographic matches baseball and its aging. We're selling to one group rather than the group we're trying to target.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]

Jul 31, 22 11:41

Post #25 of 517 (11096 views)

I've not even given a thought to who the captains even are. I've kinda recognized that almost all the athletes that we want / deserve to be there, are there. I guess someone "deserving" is going to be left out every year, but I don't even give the leaders of the team a thought- I just focus on the races / athletes.

Maybe they'll come into play more if CC picks up more. But I couldn't even tell you who led any of the teams last year but I can tell you 90% of the athletes.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

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