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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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Before we get caught up in semantics….

Ajax Bay wrote:

Levison offers his picks: https://www.tri247.com/...ildcards-predictions
For mine (last week) see the OP.


I like his picks, except for Lopes and Spirig. Lopes was the worst drafting offender of the Lopes-Spirig-Salthouse trio in Edmonton. Her countrywoman Batista seems more likely to land a spot.

Spirig was the second worst drafter but her CV might salvage her as a pick if it wasn’t for the impressive progress made by Sara Perez Sala, winner of this year’s Challenge the Championship in, yes, Šamorín - where the Collins Cup takes place.

Levison is just a little too focused on Edmonton. Yes, Perez Sala was 26th. That doesn’t mean she’s not on form. The Collins Cup also has a relatively long - and often difficult - swim in the choppy waters of the Danube, where she’ll excel.

"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden
Last edited by: kajet: Jul 31, 22 13:00
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [kajet] [ In reply to ]
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For the avoidance of doubt over who is ultimately responsible for selecting the "Captains' Picks":
Collins Cup Qualification Protocol for 2022
2. Team Members:
Four members of each team (two men and two women) will be Captains’ picks (a “Captains' Pick”) and two members of each team will be alternates (“Alternates”).
Alternates will race in the event a team member is unable to do so. All Alternates and Captains' Picks will be selected by the non-Athlete Members of the PTO Board, after consultation with the Team Captains.
I'm sure I heard somewhere that the selections would be shared early/mid next week.
Last edited by: Ajax Bay: Jul 31, 22 13:27
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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Oh that is interesting. Did they change the rules or is this just a formality, like the Queen of a England (Athlete Board in this case) “picking” the prime minister?

"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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Ajax Bay wrote:
For the avoidance of doubt over who is ultimately responsible for selecting the "Captains' Picks":
Collins Cup Qualification Protocol for 2022
2. Team Members:
Four members of each team (two men and two women) will be Captains’ picks (a “Captains' Pick”) and two members of each team will be alternates (“Alternates”).
Alternates will race in the event a team member is unable to do so. All Alternates and Captains' Picks will be selected by the non-Athlete Members of the PTO Board, after consultation with the Team Captains.
I'm sure I heard somewhere that the selections would be shared early/mid next week.


correct me but alternates are the reserve athletes not the captain picks
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [pk] [ In reply to ]
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pk wrote:
Ajax Bay wrote:
For the avoidance of doubt over who is ultimately responsible for selecting the "Captains' Picks":
Collins Cup Qualification Protocol for 2022
2. Team Members:
Four members of each team (two men and two women) will be Captains’ picks (a “Captains' Pick”) and two members of each team will be alternates (“Alternates”).
Alternates will race in the event a team member is unable to do so. All Alternates and Captains' Picks will be selected by the non-Athlete Members of the PTO Board, after consultation with the Team Captains.
I'm sure I heard somewhere that the selections would be shared early/mid next week.



correct me but alternates are the reserve athletes not the captain picks
Yes - four Captain's Picks and two 'alternates' aka reserves. You'll recall last year both INT and USA needed to call up replacements and it was all a bit rushed / ad hoc. Think this is an effort to make this process better and more transparent. Clearly any alternate not pulled into the team can race the ITU "Long" at Samorin the following day, and probably win!
The lowest ranked athlete racing the Collins Cup gets $20,000.
Captains’ Picks: The Captains Picks will be ". . . announced no later than 27th July. In determining the Captains Picks . . . the non-Athlete PTO Board, in consultation with the Team Captains, will seek to identify those athletes who, in their opinion, would best serve their respective Teams and enhance the Team’s performance at the Collins Cup. The
factors that would be considered include, but are not limited to, current and historical rankings, recent performances, possible matchups with other Teams and fitness levels."
Last edited by: Ajax Bay: Aug 1, 22 11:07
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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2 August, 2022
London: Following the announcement last week of the athletes automatically qualified to represent Teams US, Europe and International at the PTO’s flagship event The Collins Cup later this month on 20th August, Team US Captains Julie Moss and Dave Scott are the first to break cover and reveal the athletes they have chosen as their Captains’ Picks.
Those athletes are:
Sophie Watts
Sarah True
Jason West
Ben Kanute
Commenting on the selections, Team Co-Captain Dave Scott said, “In selecting Watts, True West and Kanute, we have added additional firepower to Team US. In Jason West we have an athlete who has broken out this year and begun to show his potential with a great performance in Chattanooga, where he scored 98 PTO World Ranking points. Ben Kanute is a Collins Cup veteran, having the fourth fastest time at last year’s event. He understands the pressure that occurs once you don the stars and stripes, and we know he is a man prepared for the battle.”
Julie Moss, Scott’s Co-Captain, added, ‘It was a difficult decision selecting our Captains’ Picks as there were many deserving athletes. With Sophie Watts’ 2022 performances after an injury in 2021 all being the mid to high 80s, she has demonstrated not only consistency, but a fierce determination well suited for being a part of Team US. Her strength on the run will make her a feared opponent at Šamorín. What can I say about Sarah True? Coming back from maternity leave and injury, she has had two races this year, and averaged 103 points. As a former Olympian, she has the speed, strength, and guts to challenge any athlete at The Collins Cup.
Rounding out their comments on their picks, Moss and Scott concluded, “It is an honour for us to lead these fine athletes. Team US may be the underdogs, but in last year’s matches we shocked people when Team US took an early lead. With the strength of the team this year our goal is to build on last year and carry it all the way through to lift the Collins Cup trophy. It is never a good idea to underestimate athletes who fly the red, white and blue.
More at: https://protriathletes.org/...m-us-captains-picks/
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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This was the same last year... it basically says that the "commercial side" of the PTO are making the selections... which effectively means that they're cherry-picking who will have the most appeal for television/broadcast ratings.

I suspect that one of their marketing tools is "X number of Olympians and Y number of Olympic Gold medals..." That's likely why you saw so many Olympians show up in Edmonton... though the on-course performances of people like Schoeman, Brownlee and McElroy weren't good enough to justify selection.

True was a great pick for the US... and I'm guessing they'll go with Spirig and Duffy for picks on the Europe/Internationals team



Ajax Bay wrote:
For the avoidance of doubt over who is ultimately responsible for selecting the "Captains' Picks":
Collins Cup Qualification Protocol for 2022
2. Team Members:
Four members of each team (two men and two women) will be Captains’ picks (a “Captains' Pick”) and two members of each team will be alternates (“Alternates”).
Alternates will race in the event a team member is unable to do so. All Alternates and Captains' Picks will be selected by the non-Athlete Members of the PTO Board, after consultation with the Team Captains.
I'm sure I heard somewhere that the selections would be shared early/mid next week.
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [sfjab] [ In reply to ]
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sfjab wrote:
True was a great pick for the US... and I'm guessing they'll go with Spirig and Duffy for picks on the Europe/Internationals team

I reckon both those athletes are odds on for selection (EUR and INT). Duffy going up against Knibb, d'you think?
True beat Jackson (who is the #5 ranked American (US)) by 16 minutes at Lake Placid so that will have helped the rationale. A decent race at Samorin (it'll mean she then has 3 'scores') will see her in the PTO top 20 (roughly the same as Jackson). Watts a clear weak link in a competitive USA women's 6.
I assume that the European Captains' Picks will be revealed Wednesday and the Internationals on Thursday (all separated for media impact reasons).
Fear we will be deprived of a Salthouse v Lawrence bashathon/karma this time.
kajet wrote:
Oh that is interesting. Did they change the rules or is this just a formality, like the Queen of a England (Athlete Board in this case) “picking” the prime minister?
No, the selection protocols were shared in January and sfaik, them's the 'rules'.
Last edited by: Ajax Bay: Aug 2, 22 10:25
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [mkq] [ In reply to ]
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mkq wrote:
Ahhh the Commonwealth...the UK's attempt to continue to stay disproportionately globally relevant.

Maybe let the UK have their own team then see how "globally relevant" they are then, in the world of triathlon at least. I'd wager they would run the rest of Europe close.
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [Joss1965] [ In reply to ]
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Joss1965 wrote:
mkq wrote:
Ahhh the Commonwealth...the UK's attempt to continue to stay disproportionately globally relevant.


Maybe let the UK have their own team then see how "globally relevant" they are then, in the world of triathlon at least. I'd wager they would run the rest of Europe close.
You'd lose your stake, big time. The UK men are too weak / continentals way too strong. Having both Brownlees finishing a 100km contest would make it closer.
Restrict it to the women (6 v 6) and it'd be close but I reckon Europe (as opposed to EU) would come out on top.
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [Joss1965] [ In reply to ]
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Joss1965 wrote:
mkq wrote:
Ahhh the Commonwealth...the UK's attempt to continue to stay disproportionately globally relevant.


Maybe let the UK have their own team then see how "globally relevant" they are then, in the world of triathlon at least. I'd wager they would run the rest of Europe close.

zzzzzzz
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [mkq] [ In reply to ]
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mkq wrote:
Joss1965 wrote:
mkq wrote:
Ahhh the Commonwealth...the UK's attempt to continue to stay disproportionately globally relevant.


Maybe let the UK have their own team then see how "globally relevant" they are then, in the world of triathlon at least. I'd wager they would run the rest of Europe close.

zzzzzzz

Wow incredible riposte…you’re too good for me.
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [Joss1965] [ In reply to ]
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Just bored by the chest thumping. Yes, the UK has good triathletes at the moment. AND they are also at a huge disadvantage to sustain that level of competitiveness over a period of time simply due to population size and investment vis-a-vis Europe as a whole. Constantly thinking you are better than other European countries has gotten you into this Brexit mess.
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [sfjab] [ In reply to ]
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I suspect that one of their marketing tools is "X number of Olympians and Y number of Olympic Gold medals...//

You mean they have the gaul to pick the best athletes to compete? Of course it is more interesting to us if the best athletes show up and race head to head, and the rankings often lack that clarity on who is "actually" the best athletes. I mean is Jan even on the top 10 or 20 anymore? And many of those ITU athletes that make any race more exciting, are they on the list? Of course that rankles many that it is not cut and dry, using ranking places only. We are not quite that developed as a sport, so cannot do what golf or tennis does. But I think even those sports have "special" slots that go outside their rankings for certain events, so probably something that will always be in the gray area of selections.
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [Joss1965] [ In reply to ]
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Joss1965 wrote:
mkq wrote:
Ahhh the Commonwealth...the UK's attempt to continue to stay disproportionately globally relevant.

Maybe let the UK have their own team then see how "globally relevant" they are then, in the world of triathlon at least. I'd wager they would run the rest of Europe close.

Just so you know guys, the UK is not part of the Commonwealth Games.

"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
I suspect that one of their marketing tools is "X number of Olympians and Y number of Olympic Gold medals...//

You mean they have the gaul to pick the best athletes to compete? Of course it is more interesting to us if the best athletes show up and race head to head, and the rankings often lack that clarity on who is "actually" the best athletes. I mean is Jan even on the top 10 or 20 anymore? And many of those ITU athletes that make any race more exciting, are they on the list? Of course that rankles many that it is not cut and dry, using ranking places only. We are not quite that developed as a sport, so cannot do what golf or tennis does. But I think even those sports have "special" slots that go outside their rankings for certain events, so probably something that will always be in the gray area of selections.

no, Monty, the whole point of brexit is that the Brits don't have the Gauls anymore.

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [mkq] [ In reply to ]
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mkq wrote:
Just bored by the chest thumping. Yes, the UK has good triathletes at the moment. AND they are also at a huge disadvantage to sustain that level of competitiveness over a period of time simply due to population size and investment vis-a-vis Europe as a whole. Constantly thinking you are better than other European countries has gotten you into this Brexit mess.[/quote

Good triathletes “at the moment.” Heard of Cook, Smith, Lessing, Don, Wellington?

Investment in sport in the UK is significant, especially Olympic sports like triathlon so not sure why you think we are at a disadvantage. Most European countries would love to be able to invest what we do into triathlon.

As for the Brexit vote being because we thought we were better than the rest of Europe, which left wing outlet you read that in? And mess? What mess, other than that caused by the EU because they were so offended by the fact anyone would want to leave their club and so desperate to keep us for the billions we ploughed into it.

Finally the Commonwealth, no one is forcing any of the countries outside of the UK to still form part of it. As for the games themselves…have you watched any of it? Look at the crowds, the athletes, are loving it, many of them are from countries that do not have any significant sporting heritage.

So back to your original point…..by all means dislike the UK if you want but don’t for one minute think we worry about our place in the world. We don’t need to.
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [mkq] [ In reply to ]
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mkq wrote:
Just bored by the chest thumping. Yes, the UK has good triathletes at the moment. AND they are also at a huge disadvantage to sustain that level of competitiveness over a period of time simply due to population size and investment vis-a-vis Europe as a whole. Constantly thinking you are better than other European countries has gotten you into this Brexit mess.

What Brexit mess???
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [Jackets] [ In reply to ]
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leaving aside the trainwreck for a moment:

i think the captain's picks on team USA look solid, particularly on the men's side. i'm less confident about the women's side.

kanute, if he can get healthy, is really solid over the 100k distance. he should be able to swim at the front and bike with most people. disappointing year for him, so i hope he can turn things around.

west was on a tear there for a while, running his way through a handful of fields, and i think the 100k distance will also suit him ok.

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [sfjab] [ In reply to ]
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From the 'gram:
Team Europe’s Captains' Picks 🇪🇺

Confirmed for the 2022 @thecollinscuptri:

@nicolaspirigofficial ⭐️
@danielbaekkegard ⭐️⭐️
@hollylawrencetri ⭐️⭐️
@samlaidlow ⭐️

⭐️ = CC appearances

[Edited} I had initially assumed Pallant had said 'no thanks': that was the only reason I could think of for not having her in the team. But from other comments it looks as if Lawrence has been preferred (and I fail to find any rationale for that). Spirig selection is a 'hall of fame' and Olympic Champion rationale which is understandable.
Charles commented: "For clarity; I threw my hat in the ring as a wild card selection, I fully understand the reasons for not picking me, given that I am yet to race and demonstrate I am at the required standard to compete . . ."
Great she was up for the fight, even though only back running a week: would've been worth the Collins Cup baseline $20,000 to just turn up and jog in. Sounds like Kona or St George or both, are on the cards.
Last edited by: Ajax Bay: Aug 3, 22 7:04
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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Do you really think Pallant said "no thanks" to a $35k pay check/appearance fee?

Unfortunately, the commercial team picked Spirig over Pallant Browne...



Ajax Bay wrote:
From the 'gram:
Team Europe’s Captains' Picks 🇪🇺

Confirmed for the 2022 @thecollinscuptri:

@nicolaspirigofficial ⭐️
@danielbaekkegard ⭐️⭐️
@hollylawrencetri ⭐️⭐️
@samlaidlow ⭐️

⭐️ = CC appearances

I assume Pallant said 'no thanks'.
Charles commented: "For clarity; I threw my hat in the ring as a wild card selection, I fully understand the reasons for not picking me, given that I am yet to race and demonstrate I am at the required standard to compete . . ."
Great she was up for the fight, even though only back running a week: would've been worth the Collins Cup baseline $20,000 to just turn up and jog in. Sounds like Kona or St George or both, are on the cards.
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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Based on her husbands comments on Instagram, EPB did not say 'no thanks'

Really disappointing decision especially after the blatant cheating from Spirig last week
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [sfjab] [ In reply to ]
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sfjab wrote:
Do you really think Pallant said "no thanks" to a $35k pay check/appearance fee?

Unfortunately, the commercial team picked Spirig over Pallant Browne...
I could think of no other explanation for her non-selection (and had not read down the post's long comments set).
They have chosen Lawrence over Pallant (Spirig selection is a legacy issue - will be her last season). Matching Lawrence with Pallant I cannot see any rationale for choosing the former. Hopefully someone can articulate some possible reasons.
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [Ajax Bay] [ In reply to ]
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I would've picked Sara Perez Sala, and I'm not saying I necessarily agree with picking Lawrence over Pallant, but if I were the devil's advocate, I'd say the Collins Cup has a relatively long swim (5% longer than a 70.3 swim) and a short run (15% shorter). One of the reasons they picked Kanute for the U.S. team IMO.

The two are evenly matched on the bike. Lawrence wins on the swim every time, often by as much as 2 minutes in middle distance racing, although she does get beaten on the run.

https://stats.protriathletes.org/...awrence/emma-pallant

"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [kajet] [ In reply to ]
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EPB would almost certainly be faster than either Spirig or Lawrence. Team Europe can make these choices and still be a shoe-in for overall win.
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