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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [lassekk] [ In reply to ]
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We must be using different timing sources. I see Spirig with the fourth fastest female time behind Ryf-Gentle-Findlay. She only beat Laidlow and Laundry on men's side.
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [dcpinsonn] [ In reply to ]
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dcpinsonn wrote:
mkq wrote:
bluefever wrote:
ALG wrote:
Laidow finished with Iden, ages after Long, and they hugged it out at the finish line, everyone smiling. Good thing for both of them.


Yes. The fake 'banter' had been to the detriment, imho.


Most of the athletes get on, respect each other and that's it.

Generating false antagonism is stupid and they should let it go.


Agreed.

Holly Lawrence shut it down in the post-race interview when they tried to egg her on.

Lionel was the grownup in the room, both before and after the race.

Long definitely wanted to continue rubbing it in after the race which just speaks to his immaturity. You can say (like someone above in the thread) that we donā€™t know the whole picture, Sam Long gets crap fron a lot of ppl etc but the reality is: He puts the target on his back and if he wants to be a star and a professional, he should learn to handle himself in a professional manner.

His quip about the Aretha Franklin song reminded me of a 13 year-old who thought they had come up with a funny joke and waited all day to deliver itā€¦only to fail said delivery.

Again, hats off to Lionel who came out on top in the race and the PR-scape.

Long wanted to continue to rub it in? Yes -- very clear when he embraced Laidlow & told him that he's still one of the best in the world. Really not classy at all.

I think he's absolutely within his right to say that they put Laidlow in his place because they did. Sam did a lot of talking on his way to where he is now but most of that seemed aimed around building followers/a brand. Some pros told him he can't swim. But there still seemed to be a lot of mutual respect. Maybe he should have taken it less personal but it seemed like Laidlow went a little beyond the kind of stuff that's been thrown back & forth in the past.

Anyways, KB is the goat. Ditlev seems ready to perform at Kona.

After some anger at the captain picks for the European women, Spirig + Lawrence delivered. Spirig beat a lot of the men.

I think they messed up with this by making the US its own country. In golf it makes sense. It triathlon, it should probably be one of the European countries and then then two international squads. Idk.

Yes, he embraced him after he had 20 mins to cool his jets after Lionel set the tone for reconciliation in the post-race interview. He is childish and I say that being a fan of his racing and owning some awesome YoYoYo socks.

Blu is an absolute machine. It is amazing to see him perform race after race.

For longevity and to get the sponsorship dollars, the US has to be its own team. The women were really strong last year, the men continue to disappoint. It doesnā€™t help that the Europeans have so many of the current champions to choose across triathlon to choose from. Imagine the team if LCB and Frodeno had been fit.
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [ADabs] [ In reply to ]
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Sounds good. I will rephrase. Sam lacks true self confidence and struggles with adversity. Thanks for allowing me to correct my perspective.
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [dcpinsonn] [ In reply to ]
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dcpinsonn wrote:

I think they messed up with this by making the US its own country. In golf it makes sense. It triathlon, it should probably be one of the European countries and then then two international squads. Idk.

i think we need to take the long view with this. assuming the collins cup goes on for a while, this will change. over the years that i've been involved in the sport, for instance, there would have been times when you could make a team just of australians that would beat the rest of the world combined. in their primes, a harrop/hackett/jones/carney+bevan/stewart/robbo/macca/welchy/etc team would be unstoppable. staggering. and before that, an american team of allen/tinley/pigg/molina/riccitello/etc would have been prohibitive favourites. so give it a few more years and we'll see what happens.

this year, for instance, i think team international could have won it if a few things had broken differently.

____________________________________
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http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [dcpinsonn] [ In reply to ]
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dcpinsonn wrote:
I think they messed up with this by making the US its own country. In golf it makes sense. It triathlon, it should probably be one of the European countries and then then two international squads. Idk.

I agree. Unfortunately the US does not have enough strong athletes to make it interesting. They should've done North America and include Canada and USA as one. That would give us Lionel and Paula to make it more interesting in the points game.

http://www.sfuelsgolonger.com
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [timr] [ In reply to ]
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timr wrote:
dcpinsonn wrote:

I think they messed up with this by making the US its own country. In golf it makes sense. It triathlon, it should probably be one of the European countries and then then two international squads. Idk.


I agree. Unfortunately the US does not have enough strong athletes to make it interesting. They should've done North America and include Canada and USA as one. That would give us Lionel and Paula to make it more interesting in the points game.
That and then kick the Brits over to team international would definitely make it a bit more interesting.

Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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The event clearly needs some changes from the current format.

1) At a macro level, it's not competitive. There's no reason for the US to be a standalone team. If they want a Ryder Cup style format make it Europe vs. World. Even then I'm not sure it's a competitive event
2) At a micro level, it's not competitive. There was one close race the entire day. The majority of the races were over midway through the bike.
3) The event takes too long. They need to find a way to compress the total time down to ~3 hours total.
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [USCoregonian] [ In reply to ]
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Iā€™m curious how different the matchups are. to what some of the athletes may have wanted.

I want to see the event over 2 days like they do at many of the itu events. It would allow for matches to be moved around and potential to put some pressure on athletes. Do you front load your roster, do you sleep well on a big lead, etc. hell you could even change the formats. One roster is racing a relay, one races Olympic etc. they do that in Tennis and golf, so they could add some other formats if they desired.


With the structure of the races, obviously closer races provide more excitement but in the current format of races finishing every 10 mins, the time gaps can still keep it interesting right? I mean obviously sprint finish is how you want 12 races to finish.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Aug 20, 22 13:32
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I paid attention to how they look after crossing the finish line and KB looked incredible. Findlay went to the corner and had to seat down, LS breathing hard and Sam Longā€™s legs looked jelly. Several athletes looked miserable and in pain. On the other hand, wow!!! KB looked like he just finished a jogging after sprinting to the finish line. Heā€™s true No. 1.
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [USCoregonian] [ In reply to ]
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USCoregonian wrote:
The event clearly needs some changes from the current format.

1) At a macro level, it's not competitive. There's no reason for the US to be a standalone team. If they want a Ryder Cup style format make it Europe vs. World. Even then I'm not sure it's a competitive event
2) At a micro level, it's not competitive. There was one close race the entire day. The majority of the races were over midway through the bike.
3) The event takes too long. They need to find a way to compress the total time down to ~3 hours total.

The reality of long course racing is that races are rarely close and there are very few lead changes, which makes it inherently boring for all but the most dedicated fans. The best hope is that the team competition is close and comes down to the last races, but thatā€™s hard to engineer. All things considered, I think the PTO did a good job but itā€™s a tough task.

FWIW, the US dominated the Ryder Cup through the early 90s and itā€™s been mostly Europe since then so even a presumably successful model has not managed to find a way to keep the team competition interesting in most years. Brookline (ā€˜99) was an amazing comeback, but mostly one side wins pretty easily and there is not a lot of last minute drama.
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [timr] [ In reply to ]
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timr wrote:
dcpinsonn wrote:
I think they messed up with this by making the US its own country. In golf it makes sense. It triathlon, it should probably be one of the European countries and then then two international squads. Idk.

I agree. Unfortunately the US does not have enough strong athletes to make it interesting. They should've done North America and include Canada and USA as one. That would give us Lionel and Paula to make it more interesting in the points game.

In the long term North America makes more sense, Sanders and Paula will not be around forever but others are coming up north of the border and the US women will get several ITU women soon. But it needs to stay as such because the entire world enjoys beating up on the U.S.
Ultimately, this is a glorified exhibition with the athletes in all phases of shape, building towards a bigger goal, putting in a small block to gain ā€œspeedā€, targeting certain events to be in contention to be selected though not suited for 100KM, etc.
Ryf once again, under the radar, reminding all of her greatness.
Laidlow goes home devastated! Should have laid low.
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [USCoregonian] [ In reply to ]
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The current format is too long. As it is, it will only attract the most ardent triathlon fan. One improvement would be have one female and one male race (start 30-60 minutes apart) and score the teams as a cross country meet based on overall finishing place and all finishers count to the team total. Total broadcast time would be significantly reduced.
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [timr] [ In reply to ]
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timr wrote:
dcpinsonn wrote:

I think they messed up with this by making the US its own country. In golf it makes sense. It triathlon, it should probably be one of the European countries and then then two international squads. Idk.


I agree. Unfortunately the US does not have enough strong athletes to make it interesting. They should've done North America and include Canada and USA as one. That would give us Lionel and Paula to make it more interesting in the points game.

Iā€™d make it the Americas vs Europeans vs The Commonwealth countries plus the rest of the world.

Let food be thy medicine...
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [JackStraw13] [ In reply to ]
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As far as watching longer distance races go the Collins cup as a race watching spectacle is probably the least exciting. Big gaps and no real drama apart from the long sanders finish. Probably the most boring race(s) Iā€™ve watched. Only excitement was the laidlow long drama. Fast forwarded most of it.
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [Changpao] [ In reply to ]
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Changpao wrote:
USCoregonian wrote:
The event clearly needs some changes from the current format.

1) At a macro level, it's not competitive. There's no reason for the US to be a standalone team. If they want a Ryder Cup style format make it Europe vs. World. Even then I'm not sure it's a competitive event
2) At a micro level, it's not competitive. There was one close race the entire day. The majority of the races were over midway through the bike.
3) The event takes too long. They need to find a way to compress the total time down to ~3 hours total.

The reality of long course racing is that races are rarely close and there are very few lead changes, which makes it inherently boring for all but the most dedicated fans. The best hope is that the team competition is close and comes down to the last races, but thatā€™s hard to engineer. All things considered, I think the PTO did a good job but itā€™s a tough task.

FWIW, the US dominated the Ryder Cup through the early 90s and itā€™s been mostly Europe since then so even a presumably successful model has not managed to find a way to keep the team competition interesting in most years. Brookline (ā€˜99) was an amazing comeback, but mostly one side wins pretty easily and there is not a lot of last minute drama.

There is a ton of drama in the Ryder Cup, even on Day 1. It doesnā€™t seem that you watch it.

The Americans dominated the Ryder Cup mostly until it became the US vs Europe (instead of GB and Ireland) in 1979. Since then, it is 12-9 in Europeā€™s favor, I believe. The last 4 have been split evenly. 2 of the last 6 were decided by 1 point which is remarkable, given the number of matches over 3 days.
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [TriPJA] [ In reply to ]
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The PTO Colinā€™s Cup format is to highlight the athletes not the races necessarily. Thatā€™s lost when you basically turn it into every other triathlon out there.

Itā€™ll be curious to see what the broadcast numbers look like.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [USCoregonian] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah itā€™s frustrating to think that given the caliber of the participants, and the depth of the field, there was only 1 competitive race all day.
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [TriPJA] [ In reply to ]
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I wonder if it would be more exciting if they still drew names to race against, but ALL males went off together and ALL females went off together. Athletes would have to know where their particular competition was at all times. Teams could work together to get further ahead or back in the race. Maybe it gets complicated to do that though?

http://www.sfuelsgolonger.com
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [JackStraw13] [ In reply to ]
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The Commonwealth. Bravo. To help out the 13 colonies we will lend you the residents of Tucson and Bend. We reserve rights to said athletes if they spend winters in Prince Albert.

http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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turdburgler wrote:
Matt J wrote:
I hope Sam Long crushes Laidlow.

If you listen to what he is saying, he cops to being obnoxious and flamboyant in the past, but he was never hurtful. Heā€™s being bullied by a lot of 2nd tier pros who think his outlandish personality has garnered him more sponsorship money than he deserves. Maybe theyā€™re right. But, constantly bagging on him makes these athletes look childish and petty.

Sam Laidlow better strap it on tomorrow.

I have no idea who wins that race especially with Lionel and Long ready to work together. Laidlow has shown his capacity to get off the front and he can bike well. Who knows if he survives the bike or run, but this matchup as with the others looks to be fun.

All of that said and I haven't bothered to watch much of the content, this is him taking the piss out of Long. You can opine on cultures, but this is simple bullocks that seems very at place with guys from GB. This doesn't even rise to the level of NZ or Aussie levels of non stop shit talk.

Long looked a bit weird chasing the Norwegians around videoing them.

This is interesting. Ego, media presence, cultural confusion and everything else we get go in to this content of actual people dealing with things in a very different way.

I just watched that section on the YouTube link.

I'm British, so rheres no lost 'cultural difference' here. Theres no humour in the tone. Sam Laidlaw simply comes that as a right wanker. As a European (and no fanboi of Sam Long TBH) I'm more than glad he was beaten by both the Lionel and SamL.
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [timr] [ In reply to ]
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The head-to-head hasnā€™t exactly produced compelling racing. I like your version, and score it like a cross country meet.
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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Todayā€™s format will only draw the most ardent fans. It is not compelling viewing and it is hours too long.
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [TriPJA] [ In reply to ]
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Sure, I think what I'm suggesting is, if this format doesn't work....cool. It'll be the end of the experiment.

I think PTO wants to push for the development of the athletes and the personalities. Every pro race is raced as you guys are suggesting by doing a mass start race. Suggesting they then race as xc scoring or 1 v 1 v 1 but still racing all together at the same time, doesn't imo meet the story that PTO wants to tell.

So this format may not work, I just dont see them going back to the wash and repeat of an male mass start race and female mass start race. They'll just take their ball and go home to something else.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [mkq] [ In reply to ]
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mkq wrote:
Changpao wrote:
USCoregonian wrote:
The event clearly needs some changes from the current format.

1) At a macro level, it's not competitive. There's no reason for the US to be a standalone team. If they want a Ryder Cup style format make it Europe vs. World. Even then I'm not sure it's a competitive event
2) At a micro level, it's not competitive. There was one close race the entire day. The majority of the races were over midway through the bike.
3) The event takes too long. They need to find a way to compress the total time down to ~3 hours total.

The reality of long course racing is that races are rarely close and there are very few lead changes, which makes it inherently boring for all but the most dedicated fans. The best hope is that the team competition is close and comes down to the last races, but thatā€™s hard to engineer. All things considered, I think the PTO did a good job but itā€™s a tough task.

FWIW, the US dominated the Ryder Cup through the early 90s and itā€™s been mostly Europe since then so even a presumably successful model has not managed to find a way to keep the team competition interesting in most years. Brookline (ā€˜99) was an amazing comeback, but mostly one side wins pretty easily and there is not a lot of last minute drama.

There is a ton of drama in the Ryder Cup, even on Day 1. It doesnā€™t seem that you watch it.

The Americans dominated the Ryder Cup mostly until it became the US vs Europe (instead of GB and Ireland) in 1979. Since then, it is 12-9 in Europeā€™s favor, I believe. The last 4 have been split evenly. 2 of the last 6 were decided by 1 point which is remarkable, given the number of matches over 3 days.

Yes, clearly someone who references Brookline in ā€˜99 doesnā€™t watch the Ryder Cup. Dude, the US went roughly 50 years without losing. Then, starting around the mid-90s it lost repeatedly. Other than the amazing comeback at Brookline, it won maybe once in 20 years. An entire generation of American golf fans watched the US lose to Europe. Now the US has won maybe the last 3-4 straight. The point I was making is that golf shows it hard to set up a system that prevents domination by one country/ region. Iā€™d love a Collins Cup where the team competition was more open, the winning team harder to predict, and the finish came down to the wire. But the Ryder Cup shows thatā€™s hard to achieve; the talent of the athletes shifts over time and largely dictates the winner.
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Re: Collins Cup - Selections for INT, USA and EUR teams [fulla] [ In reply to ]
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long course racing is now "WWE" .

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Eric Lagerstrƶm
Today at 1:59 PM
Ā· Bend, Oregon
70.3 heat training
Bleh. Thank God for that water fountain. Gotta ask Lionel what the relative altitude conversion is at 90F and -10% humidity
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