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Coach vs. Self-Coached
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The quick question: how many folks here have a coach vs. just sorta coach themselves?

The longer question/explanation: many years ago (like, a decade+) when I first got into triathlon I was on a team. We had a coach, set workout times/locations, and gave each other tons of support. It was great being part of a team, but I feel like I also got a good education in fundamentals--enough that at certain points I kind of drifted off and did my own thing, like a couple 70.3s, without my coach's help or input. He was there if I had any questions, but I came up with my own training plans and did fine. Well, I finished...but I always wonder if I could've done better if I'd truly been coached.

Several years ago I moved across the country for work, and career stuff has kept me away from triathlon for awhile now. I really want to start training again for if/when there are any races--I'd like to work back up to at least an Oly, maybe even a 70.3 in 2021.

Over the last month I've reached out to a bunch of local coaches/teams. I went for locals because I'd love to be part of a team again, but I also I feel like I need professional help getting the ball rolling. So far I've gotten nothing but static, despite multiple emails/calls, and am starting to think that maybe I should just figure it out solo. I know that these are extraordinary times, but I can see on social media that all these coaches/teams are still out there training (some of them even follow me on Insta, which is weird), so now I'm especially annoyed that no one will respond.

So, the longer question and follow-up: if you have a coach, how important is your coach to your training? In other words, should I keep trying to find a coach? If so, how important do you think it is to have an in-person experience? If you have a coach you work with remotely, is that a set-up you'd recommend? If you are self-coached, anybody have any good resources you could share on where to start in terms of stuff like biometrics and setting goals?

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Sorry for the long post, and thanks if you even made it this far! Any help is much appreciated.

TL;DR - Wondering how important a coach is to restarting training, and if I should a) commit to finding a local, in-person coach, b) find someone online to work with remotely, or c) just figure it out on my own.

[what Yoda said about trying]

Last edited by: fyrberd: Jul 23, 20 17:38
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Re: Coach vs. Self-Coached [fyrberd] [ In reply to ]
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I think it all depends on your current fitness level. Have you been swimming, biking or running?
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Re: Coach vs. Self-Coached [fyrberd] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe check out 80/20 endurance dot com

Some good reading there...maybe it could be a good middle ground to your question...
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Re: Coach vs. Self-Coached [Benv] [ In reply to ]
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I haven't swum in months because all the pools are closed [still], and I've been pretty inconsistent with bike/run, which is why I think a coach would be helpful--I'm more consistent when it involves someone else's expectations. Distance-wise, I could probably pull off a very slow sprint, but, yeah: I'm hovering near zero in terms of real fitness and could probably use someone to tell me how and where to start.

[what Yoda said about trying]
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Re: Coach vs. Self-Coached [fyrberd] [ In reply to ]
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I'll definitely need a coach to correct my swimming form before I start my training.
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Re: Coach vs. Self-Coached [fyrberd] [ In reply to ]
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It's most definitely not essential to have a coach. Whether your performance suffers by going solo, and how much, will depend on your knowledge and judgement, and how much you rely on others versus yourself to judge your progress or keep you motivated.
I'm much happier without a coach. I have friends who feel they need one or they won't know what to do, and won't be motivated to do it.
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Re: Coach vs. Self-Coached [fyrberd] [ In reply to ]
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I went all in on a coach for one season (Peter Reid in 2007--yes, that Peter Reid). I had my best year ever. I trained less in terms of total time but with much more specific and tailored workouts. I supplemented that coaching with a Master's swim group as well to get some technique feedback.

Despite that success, I haven't used a coach since. Two reasons--I've been doing tri for 20+ seasons and endurance sports for 45 so I know pretty much what I need to know and have enjoyed a lot of success without a coach. The second, is the lost of control when you agree to have your schedule laid out for you by a coach was ultimately too big of a negative for me. I need to fit triathlon within the other parts of my life and that is too complicated, generally, to work well with a coach full time....

On the other hand, my son uses a coach and loves it, and is in tremendous shape as a result...

Randy Christofferson(http://www.rcmioga.blogspot.com

Insert Doubt. Erase Hope. Crush Dreams.
Last edited by: rcmioga: Jul 24, 20 6:13
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Re: Coach vs. Self-Coached [fyrberd] [ In reply to ]
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I have a coach because of time

Training for an IM is a time sucker. With a demanding job (where I have to make decisions all day), kids, and a wife who is a triathlete (and a job) I don't have time to plan training, execute training, evaluate my data, and make the changes to my training based on that data and not question did I make any mistakes along the way.

I want my coach to be my brain so all I have to do is be told what to do and execute.
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Re: Coach vs. Self-Coached [fyrberd] [ In reply to ]
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fyrberd wrote:
I haven't swum in months because all the pools are closed [still], and I've been pretty inconsistent with bike/run, which is why I think a coach would be helpful--I'm more consistent when it involves someone else's expectations. Distance-wise, I could probably pull off a very slow sprint, but, yeah: I'm hovering nea iar zero in terms of real fitness and could probgdazhI7b zhttp://zably use someone to tell Daz zme how and wh g4zu6ere to start.
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Re: Coach vs. Self-Coached [fyrberd] [ In reply to ]
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You probably know this already, but don't discount trying out a book plan first. Lots of good ones out there, at all levels.
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Re: Coach vs. Self-Coached [fyrberd] [ In reply to ]
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for me I coach myself but that's a lot of fun for me. I was a former runner and former swimmer so feel pretty comfortable with what I need for those disciplines. biking is new but different resources have been a big help in getting me up to speed and tbh the reasoning is very similar to what is done in running training

coaches can be expensive which is another drawback for me right now
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Re: Coach vs. Self-Coached [fyrberd] [ In reply to ]
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fyrberd wrote:
The quick question: how many folks here have a coach vs. just sorta coach themselves?
........... like a couple 70.3s, without my coach's help or input. He was there if I had any questions, but I came up with my own training plans and did fine. Well, I finished...but I always wonder if I could've done better if I'd truly been coached.



I've gone both routes. Results were more or less the same I was training 600-700h/yr. Another option could be looking at a consulting arrangement with a coach. Ultimately though the answer will never be known. This is why how you select a coach, if you go that route, is important. You need to fine a coach that fits you and vice versa bc we as coaches all have had an athlete that every email or phone call subtracts 10yr from your life and I'm sure athletes have had a coach where you feel the same. You also need to figure out if you want a coach that's a lifestyle athlete coach or a performance oriented coach. Your training and possibly/probably results will be different.


fyrberd wrote:
Over the last month I've reached out to a bunch of local coaches/teams. .......So far I've gotten nothing but static, despite multiple emails/calls.........I can see on social media that all these coaches/teams are still out there training.........annoyed that no one will respond.


If they won't respond to you now, when you're trying to give them business and revenue, imagine what it could be/probably will be like later. Communication is extremely important. Not communicating when you're trying to give them business sets a poor precedent imo.

fyrberd wrote:
if you have a coach, how important is your coach to your training? In other words, should I keep trying to find a coach?

If so, how important do you think it is to have an in-person experience?
If you have a coach you work with remotely, is that a set-up you'd recommend?
TL;DR -Wondering how important a coach is to restarting training,


Answers:
if you're not going to spend the time to figure it out and want to perform to your utmost capabilities a coach could be the way to go. If you're willing to spend the time having a coach for a season will speed up your learning curve. If you're not too worried about your learning curve, go solo.
If you're not worried about maximizing performance and just want to do well, have fun, not be destroyed by every race then fly solo.
If you're not sure how to start or want some guidance then a coach, one off consultation or consulting arrangement could be the way to go.

Something else to ponder: Even if your coach lived a mile away 90+ % of your communication will be electronic. In person is great for swim analysis, bike fit help, running workouts etc. There is a ton of analysis that can be done by video
This should answer the other questions as well.





Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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Re: Coach vs. Self-Coached [fyrberd] [ In reply to ]
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I coach about 15 athletes but I am self-coached. Personally, I do not want to be laser focused. While I will have a pretty structured week, I allow a lot of flexibility to enjoy myself. I also come from a running background and will shift focuses when needed. I think it really depends on what the athlete is looking to achieve too. I can be competitive on less structure and I am not interested in going all in. the athletes I coach are across the board from folks trying to reach their ceiling and some just enjoying life and staying fit.

USAT Level II- Ironman U Certified Coach
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Re: Coach vs. Self-Coached [miklcct] [ In reply to ]
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Agreed that swim coaches are amazing! I've been swimming for over 30 years, though, and every Masters or tri coach I've worked with has really helped me with my form, even after all these years.

[what Yoda said about trying]
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Re: Coach vs. Self-Coached [fyrberd] [ In reply to ]
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Like the most recent reply to this thread I am a coach with athletes from various athletic disciplines who coaches himself. After 13+ years of coaching I began to formulate the pros and cons of self coaching vs professional coaching. Also after talking with many athletes over the years about the pros and cons of the two I posted a webinar regarding this very subject.

I think the biggest difference is how the self coached approach the task of managing the planning efforts and the work that goes into analyzing the efforts.

Mark Liversedge of Golden Cheetah fame introduced me to the idea of a sports performance framework and I adapted it to what many self coached athletes go through vs how professional coaches handle the work.

Have a look - No Cost Involved and No Hard Sale coaching pitch here or in the video. Just my professional experience.

Self Coached vs Professionally Coached

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Re: Coach vs. Self-Coached [Rideon77] [ In reply to ]
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Rideon77 wrote:
I have a coach because of time

Training for an IM is a time sucker. With a demanding job (where I have to make decisions all day), kids, and a wife who is a triathlete (and a job) I don't have time to plan training, execute training, evaluate my data, and make the changes to my training based on that data and not question did I make any mistakes along the way.

I want my coach to be my brain so all I have to do is be told what to do and execute.

Yes, I really feel the "be my brain" thing, especially when it comes to evaluating data. Like, I know how to periodize and what days are best for me for which disciplines, but it would really free up some mental space to have someone do it for me.

[what Yoda said about trying]
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Re: Coach vs. Self-Coached [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
You probably know this already, but don't discount trying out a book plan first. Lots of good ones out there, at all levels.

Totally! I have a couple good books and some of my old training plans that, when cobbled together, make a pretty respectable plan.

[what Yoda said about trying]
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Re: Coach vs. Self-Coached [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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desert dude wrote:
fyrberd wrote:
The quick question: how many folks here have a coach vs. just sorta coach themselves?
........... like a couple 70.3s, without my coach's help or input. He was there if I had any questions, but I came up with my own training plans and did fine. Well, I finished...but I always wonder if I could've done better if I'd truly been coached.



I've gone both routes. Results were more or less the same I was training 600-700h/yr. Another option could be looking at a consulting arrangement with a coach. Ultimately though the answer will never be known. This is why how you select a coach, if you go that route, is important. You need to fine a coach that fits you and vice versa bc we as coaches all have had an athlete that every email or phone call subtracts 10yr from your life and I'm sure athletes have had a coach where you feel the same. You also need to figure out if you want a coach that's a lifestyle athlete coach or a performance oriented coach. Your training and possibly/probably results will be different.


fyrberd wrote:
Over the last month I've reached out to a bunch of local coaches/teams. .......So far I've gotten nothing but static, despite multiple emails/calls.........I can see on social media that all these coaches/teams are still out there training.........annoyed that no one will respond.


If they won't respond to you now, when you're trying to give them business and revenue, imagine what it could be/probably will be like later. Communication is extremely important. Not communicating when you're trying to give them business sets a poor precedent imo.

fyrberd wrote:
if you have a coach, how important is your coach to your training? In other words, should I keep trying to find a coach?

If so, how important do you think it is to have an in-person experience?
If you have a coach you work with remotely, is that a set-up you'd recommend?
TL;DR -Wondering how important a coach is to restarting training,


Answers:
if you're not going to spend the time to figure it out and want to perform to your utmost capabilities a coach could be the way to go. If you're willing to spend the time having a coach for a season will speed up your learning curve. If you're not too worried about your learning curve, go solo.
If you're not worried about maximizing performance and just want to do well, have fun, not be destroyed by every race then fly solo.
If you're not sure how to start or want some guidance then a coach, one off consultation or consulting arrangement could be the way to go.

Something else to ponder: Even if your coach lived a mile away 90+ % of your communication will be electronic. In person is great for swim analysis, bike fit help, running workouts etc. There is a ton of analysis that can be done by video
This should answer the other questions as well.




This is great! Thank you for putting it so succinctly. I think you're right about finding a happy medium with maybe a consultation. And, yeah: the fact that I did a couple marathons, 70.3s, and a century without a coach should maybe tell me that I'll be OK going solo, if need be.

[what Yoda said about trying]
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Re: Coach vs. Self-Coached [CoachRobPPC] [ In reply to ]
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CoachRobPPC wrote:
Like the most recent reply to this thread I am a coach with athletes from various athletic disciplines who coaches himself. After 13+ years of coaching I began to formulate the pros and cons of self coaching vs professional coaching. Also after talking with many athletes over the years about the pros and cons of the two I posted a webinar regarding this very subject.

I think the biggest difference is how the self coached approach the task of managing the planning efforts and the work that goes into analyzing the efforts.

Mark Liversedge of Golden Cheetah fame introduced me to the idea of a sports performance framework and I adapted it to what many self coached athletes go through vs how professional coaches handle the work.

Have a look - No Cost Involved and No Hard Sale coaching pitch here or in the video. Just my professional experience.

Self Coached vs Professionally Coached

This is so helpful! Thank you.

[what Yoda said about trying]
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Re: Coach vs. Self-Coached [fyrberd] [ In reply to ]
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I'm a mix of self-coached and using Trainerroad plans. I've been coached in the past, but I've also had 25+ years of doing various athletic/endurance sports so I have a pretty good understanding of what works for me. I also quite enjoy the process of planning out my training, keeping abreast of new training ideas, analysing my data, etc, for me it's part of the fun of the sport. And I think the "fun" part is key - what's kept me training consistently for my whole adult life is having a good handle on what I enjoy doing.

The people I know who get good value/results from having a coach (in my opinion) tend to fall into one or more of the following categories:
- They have technique deficiencies (typically swimming) which need addressing
- They're new to triathlon, or maybe to any kind of training, and have little to no idea what they're doing. Though arguably these people could also do pretty well just following a cheap/free cookie cutter plan at least initially
- They simply have no interest and/or aptitude for planning their own training and just want to be told what to do
- They're experienced but have known tendencies which a coach can help to address. E.g. overtraining, motivation issues, training their strengths not their weaknesses, etc. In these cases I think the relationship with the coach is absolutely critical as they have to have enough trust and respect for the coach to actually listen to them and change their ways
- There's also the podium contenders for whom performance is absolutely everything and are looking for every marginal gain and that includes having a coach.

The people who pay for a coach and don't get value are the ones who either simply don't follow the coaches plans/advice, or who are paying for coaching and getting just a cookie cutter plan and little to no personalisation. I know quite a few in both camps!
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Re: Coach vs. Self-Coached [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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cartsman wrote:
I'm a mix of self-coached and using Trainerroad plans. I've been coached in the past, but I've also had 25+ years of doing various athletic/endurance sports so I have a pretty good understanding of what works for me. I also quite enjoy the process of planning out my training, keeping abreast of new training ideas, analysing my data, etc, for me it's part of the fun of the sport. And I think the "fun" part is key - what's kept me training consistently for my whole adult life is having a good handle on what I enjoy doing.


The people I know who get good value/results from having a coach (in my opinion) tend to fall into one or more of the following categories:
- They have technique deficiencies (typically swimming) which need addressing
- They're new to triathlon, or maybe to any kind of training, and have little to no idea what they're doing. Though arguably these people could also do pretty well just following a cheap/free cookie cutter plan at least initially
- They simply have no interest and/or aptitude for planning their own training and just want to be told what to do
- They're experienced but have known tendencies which a coach can help to address. E.g. overtraining, motivation issues, training their strengths not their weaknesses, etc. In these cases I think the relationship with the coach is absolutely critical as they have to have enough trust and respect for the coach to actually listen to them and change their ways
- There's also the podium contenders for whom performance is absolutely everything and are looking for every marginal gain and that includes having a coach.

The people who pay for a coach and don't get value are the ones who either simply don't follow the coaches plans/advice, or who are paying for coaching and getting just a cookie cutter plan and little to no personalisation. I know quite a few in both camps!


So, your list of "people who get or need coaches" makes me realize that I only really need two things: help with determining and then setting benchmarks (biomarkers, distance, etc.) and an accountabilibuddy--someone who makes sure my disorganized ass gets to the track on Tuesday and gets out on my bike before it starts pouring on Saturday. I do have motivation issues (actually, I have scheduling issues), but neither of those needs necessarily means that I need a coach, and, in fact, I can do the first part if I just take a bit more time to self-evaluate. Because you're right that a lot of folks I've known who work with a coach get a "one sized" training plan, which doesn't end up helping them at all. Thanks for the perspective!

[what Yoda said about trying]
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Re: Coach vs. Self-Coached [fyrberd] [ In reply to ]
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I haven't swum in months because all the pools are closed [still], and I've been pretty inconsistent with bike/run,

Just a thought--if this is the issue you present when contacting potential coaches, it might explain the lack of response. I imagine it's pretty frustrating for a coach when a client is inconsistent with training. I also suspect that coaches are seeking clients who will ultimately reflect well on the coach. After all, their reputation is at stake.

My experience--I hired a coach for my first year of tri. Although I did not have aspirations to complete a 140.6 race, I had so much fun that I went for it. I found the guidance of someone much more experienced than myself really helpful that first year, particularly as I tried to figure out the unique aspects of tri (transition, equipment, etc.)

Since then I have been self-coached (although I remain friends with my coach). My assessment was that at my level, the most important component of my training/coaching was consistency, and only I could make that happen.

If I had a specific performance goal that required shaving seconds, I would hire a coach. That's not my goal at this time.

No coasting in running and no crying in baseball
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Re: Coach vs. Self-Coached [fyrberd] [ In reply to ]
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fyrberd wrote:

The people who pay for a coach and don't get value........ or who are paying for coaching and getting just a cookie cutter plan and little to no personalisation.

That's not coaching.

If you're a coach and you give out cookie cutter plans you are not a coach.

If you're an athlete paying for coaching and getting cookie cutter plans I guarantee you can find a better place to put your money and will see better results.

Now will workouts be the same? Sure some will bc there are only so many ways to write out go for an easy 20,30,70 min run.

Athlete A and athlete B, even if their race schedules are the same, should not be getting the same schedule since their strengths & weaknesses will be different.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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Re: Coach vs. Self-Coached [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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Fully agree, just pointing out that sadly those "coaches" do exist and I know people who are wasting their money on them.
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Re: Coach vs. Self-Coached [fyrberd] [ In reply to ]
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I consider myself a highly competitive amateur with 5 years experience. I went with a coach for a couple months at $100/month and I quickly realized that I missed the process of creating my own training plans. I love the learning process and trial and error to becoming a great triathlete. If you are interested in the best results possible and willing to pay for a coach then it is well worth it. If you want to take ownership over your training then dive into all the books you can find from highly successful coaches. Most books less than $20 used on amazon (Friel, Dixon, 80/20, Bolton, etc.).
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