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Close call (Jan Frodeno almost run over, on purpose)
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It's dangerous out there. One thing is the lack focus while driving which can lead to accidents, but that people on purpose try to hit you just because they are annoyed by cyclist and their clothing is really beyond my belief!
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/olympic-triathlon-champion-emma-snowsill-reflects-on-road-dangers-for-cyclists/news-story/0feab8989b3aa0b4c3871414d68f700f


Just read the article! Also there is a scary video on the news page of a person being run over on purpose as well. Apparently it's a huge problem in some areas of Australia.
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Re: Close call (Jan Frodeno almost run over, on purpose) [lassekk] [ In reply to ]
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lassekk wrote:
It's dangerous out there. One thing is the lack focus while driving which can lead to accidents, but that people on purpose try to hit you just because they are annoyed by cyclist and their clothing is really beyond my belief!
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/olympic-triathlon-champion-emma-snowsill-reflects-on-road-dangers-for-cyclists/news-story/0feab8989b3aa0b4c3871414d68f700f


Just read the article! Also there is a scary video on the news page of a person being run over on purpose as well. Apparently it's a huge problem in some areas of Australia.

Looks like you gotta pay to see it.

https://www.miles4matt.run/
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Re: Close call (Jan Frodeno almost run over, on purpose) [M~] [ In reply to ]
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OLYMPIC champion Emma Snowsill lost her then-boyfriend Luke Harrop to a bike-car crash and fears she could have lost her husband on Saturday after he was nearly collected by a truck and then hunted down by the driver.
Snowsill, who won triathlon gold at the 2008 Olympics, describes the attitudes of some drivers as “barbaric”, even out on quiet country roads around where she rides on the Sunshine Coast.
But Saturday’s incident has so shaken her husband, fellow 2008 Olympics gold medal winner and two-time Ironman triathlon world champion Jan Frodeno, he has been forced to train on a stationary bike in their home garage.
Instead of doing the regular 120km training rides he does alone and on quiet roads to keep out of the way of motorists, Frodeno yesterday spent four hours in the garage pedalling in front of an electric fan.
“A big truck was coming out from my left and he ran over a stop sign basically as I was coming past. All I could see was these capital MACK letters coming at me. He wasn’t going to stop.
“I let out of scream wondering if this guy had not seen me. He missed me by not much more than a centimetre or two. I was thinking I wasn’t going to see my family again.
“The guy then had the time to stop and wind down his passenger window in order to talk to me and abuse me and basically saying he was aiming for me and that I was, I quote, ‘a faggot’ for riding around in Lycra and I wasn’t worth the air I’m breathing.
“I’d never met this guy. Who does that? It was so weird. It’s this level of aggression I’ve seen nowhere else in the world.
“This is my job. This is what I do to feed my family. I have two cars on which I pay tax and a scooter on which I pay tax. That someone dislikes the clothing I wear to do my job is the worst argument ever.
“You don’t go to a workplace and throw a wrecking ball at a building because you don’t like hi-vis clothing. It’s ridiculous.
“I just haven’t quite got over it. I’ve got a young kid and another one coming. Every time they aim for somebody it’s essentially manslaughter. People die.
Olympic gold medallist Emma Snowsill and her husband Jan Frodeno, who says he was targeted by a truck driver while out riding on Saturday. Picture: Peter Wallis “There are bad cyclists who swerve and do all these sorts of things and run red lights. But there are never any arguments to say ‘I’m happy to commit for manslaughter or murder, if it’s intended, because somebody cut me off’.”
Snowsill’s former boyfriend and top level triathlete Luke Harrop was killed on a training ride in 2002 and she believes attitudes have only grown worse.
The cycle war has been in sharp focus since The Courier-Mail published an appeal by Bicycle Queensland boss Anne Savage for motorists to give “terrified” riders some room and respect.
In a blunt message to motorists on Monday, Ms Savage said it was time for drivers to start behaving after eight cyclists were among the 240 people killed on the roads last year.
“Drivers, I have a message for you. Ordinary Queensland bike riders — our mums and dads and kids — are terrified of you,” Ms Savage said.
Luke Harrop, pictured with his sister Loretta, was killed in an accident while cycling in 2002. File picture While she admitted “cyclists also have responsibility for their behaviour on the road”, she said the attitudes of drivers made people too scared to ride.
Snowsill, a mum of one with another due in weeks, and her husband are now among those cyclists who weigh up whether to ride on the road, a fear that could hamper Australia’s chances of finding champions in cycling as well as triathlon, as well as driving children from a form of healthy exercise.
“There is no way I would want my son (Lucca) riding on the road here, and that is so sad because it is part of a sport I love and provided me with so much,” Snowsill said.
Snowsill said would-be drivers should be required to ride bikes on the road before being given their vehicle licences to learn to respect cyclists.
“If you want a drivers licence, you should have to ride on the road,” Snowsill said.
“If I come off and go under your car, it’s life or death.”
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Re: Close call (Jan Frodeno almost run over, on purpose) [gmh39] [ In reply to ]
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Emma has a great idea here that I had not thought of: "Snowsill said would-be drivers should be required to ride bikes on the road before being given their vehicle licenses to learn to respect cyclists.
“If you want a drivers license, you should have to ride on the road,” Snowsill said."

Would-be drivers should be required to ride on a busy 4-lane road during rush hour; this would give them some concept of what cyclists deal with. :)


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Close call (Jan Frodeno almost run over, on purpose) [lassekk] [ In reply to ]
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anecdotal and similar story...

riding down a 2 lane 30 mph road doing around 20 or so. NO ONE else on the road except myself and the big redneck truck that decided to ride up right behind me and lay on their horn. i simply stopped right on the edge of the road and stared at him. he finally got tired of laying on his horn and proceeded forward nearly running me over as i was taking pics of his vehicle with my cellphone.

its amazing what some people in this world will do.

2018 Schedule: Texas Half Ironman April 8 // Tri Cap Tex, May 28 // Cypress, TX Sprint July 29 // Kemah, TX Olympic October 21
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Re: Close call (Jan Frodeno almost run over, on purpose) [damon.lebeouf] [ In reply to ]
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Did you send those photos to the cops?

Hopefully, sometime soon, it will be even more convenient to film drivers and hold them accountable with the police.

15 years from now, tractor trailers will be replaced by driverless technology and all these fat hogs will have to find another way to express their road rage.
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Re: Close call (Jan Frodeno almost run over, on purpose) [Poon] [ In reply to ]
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It just seems so crazy to me that some drivers actually can't stand cyclists. It seems to be the case in alot of non-euro countries. Here in Belgium (and most other EU countries) people ride a bike since childhood and know the dangers, they rarely actively abuse cyclists. Ofcourse there's the regular moron that has no clue what he's doing in traffic and proves to be a real danger, but I can't imagine someone willingly trying to run me over.
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Re: Close call (Jan Frodeno almost run over, on purpose) [lassekk] [ In reply to ]
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Video. Get video cameras for your bike.

https://www.miles4matt.run/
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Re: Close call (Jan Frodeno almost run over, on purpose) [Poon] [ In reply to ]
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Poon wrote:
Did you send those photos to the cops?

Hopefully, sometime soon, it will be even more convenient to film drivers and hold them accountable with the police.

15 years from now, tractor trailers will be replaced by driverless technology and all these fat hogs will have to find another way to express their road rage.

To post a similar story, I live in Western Pennsylvania where the coal trucks, tractor trailers and pipeline welders occupy the same roads as cyclists. Its an accident waiting to happen around here. I have had mountain dew, cocacola, bags of fritos all thrown from windows towards me.

I am not going to stop cyling because I love it. But, soon comes the day where cameras can be worn, and will be admissible to police authorities for such acts. Until then, just keep on riding.
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Re: Close call (Jan Frodeno almost run over, on purpose) [M~] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, they can be helpful after the fact but a camera won't stop you from getting dead or seriously injured.
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Re: Close call (Jan Frodeno almost run over, on purpose) [lassekk] [ In reply to ]
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First ride back in New Zealand in nearly a year before Christmas. The road is usually largely free of trucks but a changed weight restriction (didn't know about this at the time) 'forced' large stock and logging trucks around the quiet valley roads. First truck scared the hell out of me as he came past on the narrow, twisty road. Then, heading at speed down a lovely little straight downhill, I see a twin unit stock truck coming up the hill towards me, just as I became aware of another truck coming up from behind. A large blast of the horn from the truck behind and he hurtled past me almost clipping my handle bars. I still do not know how I managed to stay upright .

Absolutely no need for that behaviour. Straight road, broad daylight, plenty of visibility. Plenty of time to slow down a little.
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Re: Close call (Jan Frodeno almost run over, on purpose) [lassekk] [ In reply to ]
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Fellow Aussie here and yep it's that bad now. There is an irrational scathingly hatred of cyclists. From the 'pay rego' warriors to the 'fags in lycra' bogans, it's everywhere. A lot of accidents happen nowadays in perth. The media makes it worse too
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Re: Close call (Jan Frodeno almost run over, on purpose) [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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Agreed. I've always thought a nice solution for chronically terrible or violent drivers would be to make them drive scooters, or at least a tiny smart car.


ericmulk wrote:
Emma has a great idea here that I had not thought of: "Snowsill said would-be drivers should be required to ride bikes on the road before being given their vehicle licenses to learn to respect cyclists.
“If you want a drivers license, you should have to ride on the road,” Snowsill said."

Would-be drivers should be required to ride on a busy 4-lane road during rush hour; this would give them some concept of what cyclists deal with. :)
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Re: Close call (Jan Frodeno almost run over, on purpose) [lassekk] [ In reply to ]
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I'm sure you've all heard of this, but he finally goes on trial early this year (projected). To recap: allegedly hits cyclist, gets home and removes identifiable bumper stickers, son turns him in to police, he lies to FBI about the details, claiming that he thought someone threw their bike at him from the side of the road. Total shit head.

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/local/williamson/2017/12/27/year-review-natchez-trace-parkway-bike-incident-go-trial-2018/945240001/
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Re: Close call (Jan Frodeno almost run over, on purpose) [Fusion] [ In reply to ]
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Fusion wrote:
It just seems so crazy to me that some drivers actually can't stand cyclists. It seems to be the case in alot of non-euro countries. Here in Belgium (and most other EU countries) people ride a bike since childhood and know the dangers, they rarely actively abuse cyclists. Ofcourse there's the regular moron that has no clue what he's doing in traffic and proves to be a real danger, but I can't imagine someone willingly trying to run me over.

Yep, having lived the first 38-39 years of my life in Europe (Switzerland, but also riding for training camps in France, Italy and Spain), and now the last 6 years in Australia (Canberra, where it's actually much better than elsewhere in the country), I can vouch for the difference in mindsets/respect/whatever you want to call it.

30+ years riding in Europe, not a single incident. After a week in Australia, I had people open their windows to shout 'get off the road', abuse me in other forms for no other reason that I'm riding a bike (Lycra or not), try to run me off the road (and nearly kill me in the process), etc...

Truly appalling what's happening here without anything being done about it (some politicians are actually making things worse, see NSW's new laws with increase of amount of fines for cyclists (now equivalent to cars), etc... I must say that the new laws and associated awareness campaigns around the 1.5m rule have made a difference (a lot less cars passing very closely now, but still magnitudes more than in Europe).
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Re: Close call (Jan Frodeno almost run over, on purpose) [lassekk] [ In reply to ]
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There are plenty of nut job loony bullies out there who love to act tough when they are in the safety of their car unfortunately.

That being said many cyclists do bring aggression on themselves (not saying this in anyway related to this story or previous comments)-I'm constantly amazed at the level of arrogance they have riding 3-4 abreast taking up a whole lane and thinking nothing of the traffic crawling behind them. Its actions like these that leaves people seething and hating cyclists...heck I've even experienced it when on the bike-4 guys riding 4 abreast on a bike path at around 20km/hr and not a care in the world about everyone that was stuck behind them. I gave them a mouthful when I could finally pass. I have also nearly been taken out +5 times by idiots riding flat out around blind corners on the wrong side of the bike trail.

Just pure arrogance and entitlement.On the flip side I feel I'm a very courteous rider and always show drivers and other riders respect. As a result in 10+ years of road riding I am yet to have a single problem (lucky I know) and regularly have drivers wave me through, wait for me etc. But as I realise Im probably pushing my luck I have recently bought a kickr to do 99% of my riding.

Education is required on both sides..
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Re: Close call (Jan Frodeno almost run over, on purpose) [domingjm] [ In reply to ]
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domingjm wrote:
Agreed. I've always thought a nice solution for chronically terrible or violent drivers would be to make them drive scooters, or at least a tiny smart car.

Nice!!! Or an electric bike!!!


ericmulk wrote:
Emma has a great idea here that I had not thought of: "Snowsill said would-be drivers should be required to ride bikes on the road before being given their vehicle licenses to learn to respect cyclists.
“If you want a drivers license, you should have to ride on the road,” Snowsill said."

Would-be drivers should be required to ride on a busy 4-lane road during rush hour; this would give them some concept of what cyclists deal with. :)


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Close call (Jan Frodeno almost run over, on purpose) [coates_hbk] [ In reply to ]
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Agreed. I am constantly trying to educate members of my family about how cyclists have every right to use roads and the rego argument is a poor one. Rego essentially offsets wear and tear on the roads, a cyclist doesn't typically do any damage.

I grew up relatively close to where this probably happened and have ridden motorcycles and bikes all around south East Queensland. The road rage in this region is the worst I've seen anywhere - I have worked all around Australia and driven in Europe and South America.

Unfortunately some cyclists don't help in the manner in which they ride, e.g. When I was still living and working in Brisbane I regularly had to drive slowly passed a group of 15+ cyclists riding 2-3 abreast on a busy road in the north of the city(effectivley one lane each way as on the weekends people could park all day in the outside lane). It was frustrating and I got abused when I pointed out if they didn't hold traffic up they might find people more tolerant of them. Hostility exists on both sides; however, a cyclist is no match for a car or truck.
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Re: Close call (Jan Frodeno almost run over, on purpose) [El_Anade] [ In reply to ]
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El_Anade wrote:
Unfortunately some cyclists don't help in the manner in which they ride, e.g. When I was still living and working in Brisbane I regularly had to drive slowly passed a group of 15+ cyclists riding 2-3 abreast on a busy road in the north of the city(effectivley one lane each way as on the weekends people could park all day in the outside lane). It was frustrating and I got abused when I pointed out if they didn't hold traffic up they might find people more tolerant of them. Hostility exists on both sides; however, a cyclist is no match for a car or truck.

The problem is that here in Australia even cyclists keep mentioning this "unfortunately some cyclists don't behave" narrative that keeps comforting cycling agonists that their behaviours are justified. There are just as many drivers, walkers, insert any other population sub-group, who don't always behave or respect the rules, but nobody uses this argument to threaten the other members of that community?

Regarding your example above, how could 15+ cyclists riding in a group NOT hold traffic up in this situation? The problem is that a busy road allows for parking on the side, really. Even if the cyclists ride two abreast (the recommended behaviour for them in this instance, and the law says you can ride two abreast) the cars would not be able to pass if traffic is constantly going the other way. If the cyclists ride single file, then their own lives are at much greater risk, allowing cars to squeeze by with minimal distance. It's not on the cyclists. It's on the road management authority.
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Re: Close call (Jan Frodeno almost run over, on purpose) [domingjm] [ In reply to ]
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I hope he gets the max but note the skewed penalties. Hitting the cyclist is the least consequential of his offenses. Obstructing justice is what he is most at risk for although I'll be happy if ends up behind bars for any of the charges
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Re: Close call (Jan Frodeno almost run over, on purpose) [slowbmw] [ In reply to ]
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slowbmw wrote:
Poon wrote:
Did you send those photos to the cops?

Hopefully, sometime soon, it will be even more convenient to film drivers and hold them accountable with the police.

15 years from now, tractor trailers will be replaced by driverless technology and all these fat hogs will have to find another way to express their road rage.


To post a similar story, I live in Western Pennsylvania where the coal trucks, tractor trailers and pipeline welders occupy the same roads as cyclists. Its an accident waiting to happen around here. I have had mountain dew, cocacola, bags of fritos all thrown from windows towards me.

I am not going to stop cyling because I love it. But, soon comes the day where cameras can be worn, and will be admissible to police authorities for such acts. Until then, just keep on riding.

slowbmw, I have a Samsung 360 camera on my helmet during training. It is a bit heavy, but has a great looping video feature. I take extra batteries and swam them out and can generally cover a 5 hour ride.

And, here is the bad and good news. I have talked extensively with police officers about the video evidence and they have said unless you are hit and there is damage to you or your bike, the video evidence is not enough to write a citation. While I don't get this at all, this is what they have said, which doesn't make any sense given that the same video evidence is usable if you are hit by a car.

But the good news is that I have been advised by lawyers that you can take someone to small claims court for "intentional infliction of emotional distress" It may not work depending on the evidence and the judge but it certainly will scare some of the bullies behind the wheel doing this. I am right now taking my first driver to small claims court, I meet with the driver in mediation next Friday. They did an illegal uturn across the double yellow line and then into the bike lane and yelled at me "get off the road". I am sure the self-entitled driver is furious that I am suing, but we need to begin demanding civility towards cyclists and the best way to do this is to stand up to the bully drivers that do the crap that they have done to you and all other cyclists who put in the miles each year.

2018 Races: IM Santa Rosa, Vineman Monte Rio, Lake Tahoe 70.3
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Re: Close call (Jan Frodeno almost run over, on purpose) [Diabolo] [ In reply to ]
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Diabolo wrote:

Regarding your example above, how could 15+ cyclists riding in a group NOT hold traffic up in this situation? The problem is that a busy road allows for parking on the side, really. Even if the cyclists ride two abreast (the recommended behaviour for them in this instance, and the law says you can ride two abreast) the cars would not be able to pass if traffic is constantly going the other way. If the cyclists ride single file, then their own lives are at much greater risk, allowing cars to squeeze by with minimal distance. It's not on the cyclists. It's on the road management authority.

If its not safe to ride two abreast or single file then don't ride there. Just because you can doesn't mean should.
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Re: Close call (Jan Frodeno almost run over, on purpose) [lassekk] [ In reply to ]
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Hello lassekk and All,

A couple of thoughts ....

.... http://www.safetyandhealthmagazine.com/...ning-the-foundation)

While it appears the 300 - 29 - 1 rule has been modified .... and by some declared unreliable or being used to mask real problems ..... I like it as a rule of thumb.

When after a few near misses or minor injuries you wonder ..... how many have I got left before the big one .... and maybe I better do something so it doesn't happen again.

And now we know .... cats actually have 29 lives .... and maybe we do too.







'Dirty Harry'


“I know what you're thinking. Did he fire six shots or only five? Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?”

Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster
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Re: Close call (Jan Frodeno almost run over, on purpose) [dunno] [ In reply to ]
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dunno wrote:
If its not safe to ride two abreast or single file then don't ride there. Just because you can doesn't mean should.

By the same token, what are cars doing on that road. If it's busy, don't drive there..
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Re: Close call (Jan Frodeno almost run over, on purpose) [dunno] [ In reply to ]
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That was the point (I poorly) was trying to get across.
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