whoops - sorry for double posting, who was first?

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http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast

Ummmm, didn’t they already have one?

Challenge Penticton?

I'd hardly call the Challenge race there a signature event.

Pretty sure he meant Ironman Canada. :-)

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

Whistler has a contract for this year and next for both of their races...could be interesting to see what happens beyond that.

I think though were but I like this one since the topic of the tread is in the title...

Anyway, the city I’m sure has major regrets about how things ended up with Ironman. Challnge was a failure. ITU world championships are just a 1 or 2 year thing. The Superleague (while I love watching it) isn’t not a long term signature event. You can count on one hand the number of non-WTC 70.3/140.6 events in NA that really thrive.

I wonder if they are putting this out there publicly in hopes that Ironman might consider bringing back the race from Whistler. They issue is that Whistler is scheduled through 2020 and they want a race starting in 2020. Plus, Whistler seems to be doing pretty decent numbers wise so unless they really sweeten the pot I’m not sure Ironman would be interested in making the move. Since IM CDA ended in 2017, there is one less race on the NA IM calendar. So maybe they hope Ironman will just add a race up there. But CDA’s numbers had been dwindling, and given that they are geographically close to each other, I wonder if Pendicton would struggle with numbers as well.

When does the Calgary 70.3 contract end? Maybe they are hoping they can steal Ironman away from that race? They continue to have lower than average numbers for a 70.3 (which isn’t necessarily bad as a racer...) so I’ve wondered about the future of that race

Overall their best option is to invent time travel and go back to 2012 and not get into a pissing/hurt feelings match with Graham Fraser and WTC

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Matt

Now would be a good time for all those idiots who were posting back in 2012 that:

“Challenge will be better than Ironman in every way.”
“Penticton doesn’t need Ironman.”
“Ironman will regret this.”

Can't remember his ID, but one poster in particular checks all those boxes and many more ad nauseam with his posts and even wanted to take the Challenge Flag out in a boat and wave it

People are dumb, news at 11. No, not for incorrectly predicting, but for believing that any of this is that important to spend so much energy and effort on.

That way oversimplified what was going on in 2012.

IIRC...
Fraser was forced to sell the event to WTC. That invalidated the contract with Penticton. WTC said "we want all these perks to gouge the athletes and the city to stay". Penticton council was like... fuck no. Challenge was a rising brand and they took a chance.

This all happened at the same time as participation numbers for triathlon started to plummet.

Also, lemming triathletes won't support a race without Ironman attached to it.

And finally, when people started going to Whistler they realized that Penticton is a dump where you pay $200 for a shitty hotel room with paper thin walls. Sure the weather and beaches are better, but...

Big triathlon is not coming back to Penticton. Although I have a course for an extreme gravel triathlon there that would be amazing...

Further to that, gross accommodation revenue went from 21.5 million at end 2012 to over 27 million in 3 years or over 25% without IM branded race.

Add in that great race venues like Muskoka and CDA essentially said no thanks....Muskoka after only one year, then it appears that the council at the time acted in the best interests of the 40-50 thousand tax payers.

I don’t know exactly what happened, but graham had a contract with WTC where he was forced to sell IMC back to them. He had already sold the other NA events back.

I’m not sure of the angle here from the city...are they looking to partner? Are they selling rights? Or are they willing to pay for an event to come to town?

Maurice

I think it is the new city council trying evaluate whether or not they want to continue to support a triathlon in the city. I think they are trying to look at what the options are, what the benefits are and how the citizens of Penticton feel about the event in order to determine how much support they should provide.

Whether or not you think Ironman in Penticton is a good idea, I think we can all agree that having municipalities support and invest in triathlon events is great for the sport and great for us as athletes? The city of Penticton is conducting a survey about support for triathlon. It would be great for people who have raced, or want to race in Penticton to fill out the survey and express that. So if you have some time, please do so at the link below.

https://www.shapeyourcitypenticton.ca/signature-triathlon

Obviously as a local, I would love to see Ironman back. That would be my first choice. I don't know what has gone on behind close doors, but assume there is a discrepancy between the amount of support Ironman feels they need to run the race and the amount the city is willing to provide.

If Ironman isn't a possibility, I would love to see something on a smaller scale, that is starting 100% fresh and isn't trying to replace Ironman. Or at least being marketed that way. I bet Joe Dixon could come in and put on a race that sells out 500 spots and everyone that races it would leave saying "I had a great time, I want to come back next year" He has done that with Dynamic Events in Cultus Lake, Victoria and Oliver so I am guessing he could roll his model over to Penticton as well. And then build it from there each year and see where it goes. I would much rather that, than have someone come in, promise the moon and then underwhelm everyone.

When I shared the link to the survey on facebook, these were my ideas for why I think triathlon events are great for the community.

1. Positive role models for our youngsters and oldsters. Events bring people thousands of role models that inspire our kids to dream big and be active and inspire our adults to do the same. It's not just that I wouldn't be able to live my dream if I didn't grow up watching Ironman Canada, I wouldn't even have the dream! Let me sure our Penticton youngster have that dream!


2. Brings amazing in amazing new Pentictonites. There is a long list of incredible people that came here to race Ironman Canada and decided to move here.


3. Economic Impact. This one gets all the buzz. Triathletes spend money. With Ironman, they don't just spend money race week, they come for training camps throughout the year and spend money.


4. Entertainment value. Long before I used to race Triathlons, I used to love watching it. The epicness of the swim start, the grit and determination running down main street and the best part of Ironman Spectating... The midnight finish!


5. Ironman and other world class triathlons have provided Pentictonites with jobs, summer jobs and volunteer opportunities. It is a great way for Pentictonites to gain skills and experience in the industry.

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@rhyspencer

Penticton- "Ironman, please come home; we are sorry!" /pink/maybe

I would do a independent half-Ironman if they put one on. All of the indie half’s in MT, ID, and WA have gone the way of the buffalo and Penticton is a relatively short drive from me. The idea of a 500-1000 person field is more appealing than 2000+ to me

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Matt

Chelanman and Black Diamond are still running independent half-iron distance races last I checked.

Yes and both races are great.

What is stopping them from having a race in Whistler AND Penticton? Just call it Ironman Canada Penticton or something. I’m sure they’d both do well. That’s still only 3 races in Canada, a lot more in the USA.

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___________________________________
MS: Exercise Science
Your speed matters a lot, sometimes you need to be very fast, where sometimes you need to breakdown your speed.

Do you also have the stats if occupancy rates also increased during this period? Did the revenue increase due to 1) simple price point progression? 2) Did the area hotels/motels need to dramatically increase their prices due to IM pulling out and thus tourism/participation was down due to the Challenge branded event? and/or 3) Was new hotels/motels built during this period that contributed, in part, to the revenue increase?

All right here:

https://www.travelpenticton.com/...g-Strategy_FINAL.pdf

Maurice

I never did the race in Penticton (only Whistler 4x) but I remember trying to look into doing Penticton and the accommodations were just insane. Super expensive for a complete dump of a hotel or simply nothing available.

Contrasted with Whistler where the hotels where much nicer, wider variety, and an order of magnitude cheaper. That alone made the difference for me and why I never made it over to the challenge race.

Do you also have the stats if occupancy rates also increased during this period? Did the revenue increase due to 1) simple price point progression? 2) Did the area hotels/motels need to dramatically increase their prices due to IM pulling out and thus tourism/participation was down due to the Challenge branded event? and/or 3) Was new hotels/motels built during this period that contributed, in part, to the revenue increase?


I think a deeper dive into the numbers is needed - even towards the end of the IMC years in Penticton (which ended in 2012), these economic impact numbers were changing - and perhaps NOT in the direction that people wanted them to. in 2012 the overall entry numbers for IMC in Penticton were still good (2500+ I believe), but the behavior pattern for those people coming to town had changed. It was by then more of a weekend only type of event and had become much more regional. A majority of people now drove to the race, and only stayed the bare minimum number of days to be at the race - Arrive Thurs/Fri, Race Sun., leave Mon.* Go back a few years and the trend was for more to drive fly in and spend almost a full week in Penticton - Arrive Tues/Wed and stay until the following Tues/Wed.

So in those later years heading into 2012 - overall entries were up, but overall economic impact was down. And here's another thing. If you REALLY want to maximize economic impact, don't invite triathletes or endurance sports athletes. They spend a minimal amount of $$ on the things that restaurants make the MOST amount of money on - booze and deserts! Seriously!

*I recall that last year in Penticton and coming back to my hotel the the morning after the race after a bike ride, and almost EVERYONE had left the hotel. It was almost completely empty. The post race banquet that night (the Monday night) - something that in year's past EVERYONE had gone to and people were begging for tickets for, an embarrassingly low number of people showed up for.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

When people complain about the decision to kick out Ironman this is left out of the context.
Triathlete's are notoriously cheap and weren't spending a lot of money before and after the race.

As part of a new contract, Ironman wanted to keep what *was* being spent in their own race expo. Local businesses.... sorry, too bad!
On top of that free services (policing, road closures, etc), plus a cut of the hotel profits.
Penticton got the bill, while Ironman got the revenue.
Try to sell that to the public as a town councilor.

There are some fantastic AirBnb's in Penticton... When we were down for Multisport Worlds, we had a great one about a km from transition, literally next to a vineyard... I know of a few others who found awesome vacation rentals as well there. The prices were better than hotels, and we could cook our own food...