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Re: Cheating in IRONMAN estimations [Ralph20] [ In reply to ]
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Ralph20 wrote:
windschatten wrote:
The mental acrobatics people on this thread go through to make up low numbers for the % of dopers (who knew there is “technical, moral, medical, inefficient etc. doping”) is silly but unfortunately just exactly a reflection of reality. Pathetic.

There is only one form of doping:
The illegal one. No IF and BUT.
.
This thread shows again that less and less Tri-sters care about a true athletic competition.

SAD.

I wish I lived in your black/white world. Possibly the rest of us understand that these issues are somewhat more complex. For instance, it's hard to justify that some random person competing in a triathlon has to meet Olympic level qualifications/testing when it comes to the medicines they take. Most athletes simply don't put that much time and studying into doing a race. They train a little and have fun. If the doctor prescribed meds that also happen to be banned it's easy for them to say that they aren't taking it for doping purposes, but just for health. Hence, in their mind, there is no issue. That isn't a totally invalid argument either. How many sports require such stringent testing to go out a do a weekend race? Triathlon and cycling is pretty much it.


They can train all they want. When they choose to race in a sanctioned event it does become black and white. It doesn’t matter what the intent is. If their taking a banned substance they’re cheating. If they still want to compete they can take up another sport without said rules.
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Re: Cheating in IRONMAN estimations [ffmedic84] [ In reply to ]
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They can train all they want. When they choose to race in a sanctioned event it does become black and white.

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It actually is more basic. When you become an usat member, it's black and white. So the moment you become a santioned member, you have to follow WADA code, irregardless of you actually racing or not. Although I think they are changing some rules to relax some things, but it goes to the basic level of simply being a member requires you follow the WADA regulations.

Now of course you'll say those people won't get tested, but if your talking black/white, rules are rules, that's how basic it gets down too. And of course 99% of usat members are members to do races, likely very few are just "fans" of the sport buying the membership.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
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Re: Cheating in IRONMAN estimations [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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Good point and way more articulate.
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Re: Cheating in IRONMAN estimations [ffmedic84] [ In reply to ]
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ffmedic84 wrote:
Ralph20 wrote:
windschatten wrote:
The mental acrobatics people on this thread go through to make up low numbers for the % of dopers (who knew there is “technical, moral, medical, inefficient etc. doping”) is silly but unfortunately just exactly a reflection of reality. Pathetic.

There is only one form of doping:
The illegal one. No IF and BUT.
.
This thread shows again that less and less Tri-sters care about a true athletic competition.

SAD.

I wish I lived in your black/white world. Possibly the rest of us understand that these issues are somewhat more complex. For instance, it's hard to justify that some random person competing in a triathlon has to meet Olympic level qualifications/testing when it comes to the medicines they take. Most athletes simply don't put that much time and studying into doing a race. They train a little and have fun. If the doctor prescribed meds that also happen to be banned it's easy for them to say that they aren't taking it for doping purposes, but just for health. Hence, in their mind, there is no issue. That isn't a totally invalid argument either. How many sports require such stringent testing to go out a do a weekend race? Triathlon and cycling is pretty much it.


They can train all they want. When they choose to race in a sanctioned event it does become black and white. It doesn’t matter what the intent is. If their taking a banned substance they’re cheating. If they still want to compete they can take up another sport without said rules.

These types aren’t going to train, pet bunnies and champion for more unicorn sanctuary on the down-low.

They’re gonna announce their results to the world via ALL of social media.
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Re: Cheating in IRONMAN estimations [Ralph20] [ In reply to ]
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I wish I lived in your black/white world. Possibly the rest of us understand that these issues are somewhat more complex. For instance, it's hard to justify that some random person competing in a triathlon has to meet Olympic level qualifications/testing when it comes to the medicines they take.


I agree with you that the tricky thing is, where do you draw the line? When does it go from a recreational hobby, to something more serious?

Do we care about the 16 hour IM athlete barely making the cut-off times?


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Cheating in IRONMAN estimations [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Do we care about the 16 hour IM athlete barely making the cut-off times?

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We have to or else the AG doping rules look stupid. Now of course we know that 16 hr person isn't going to get tested, so if they are on some drug that is illegal to WADA, they wont get caught. But that's my issue with AG doping. I think it's dumb as hell that some random mother of 4 has to check with WADA to make sure her cough medicine is WADA approved after getting a cold from her 4 year old son's best friend at school in order to race "clean" according to the rules. Because then you'll tell me that the mother of 4 just out there doing her best isn't going to get tested, that's kinda my point. Let's go beyond just AG testing. Let's create an system that narrows the scope of testing and lets the 54 year old guy who wants to take some pills so he still gets a stiffy, can and have no worry that he is technically in violation if he races. And I don't know the answer, I just know that a system where some random new comer to the sport has to worry about dealing with WADA when they visit the doc next is a very weird sport (eta: The thing about the rules, they don't even know they are suppose to look up WADA when they are new to the sport and go to the doctor, they have zero clues on the requirements...if you want to say they should, fine; but that's not the reality for overwhelming majority of newbies getting into this sport). But if your telling me they really don't need to worry cus they'll never be tested, then let's let them off the hook completely.

So let's find a way that creates an "competitive" vs "recreation" division. I'm on record as saying you want to KQ, pay for the test on the spot yourself. Or add $5 to usat fees, but I know you won't be able to add much more than that, or the natives will revolt.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Aug 28, 18 8:42
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Re: Cheating in IRONMAN estimations [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
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My frame of reference: I am relatively new to the North American tri scene; have raced in Europe for the past 10+ years. Also, I am at the pointy end of the AG.

The numbers you suggest in the initial post seem high.

I have only seen one absolute blatant case of cheating - receiving assistance from a motorcycle while on the bike course.

Other than that, I have not seen obvious cheating. Potentially dipping in the 10meter draft zone (who can say for certain whether it was 9.5 or 10.5m) or going wide to avoid drafting (or blocking). I probably am guilty of such things as well. Have seen these things both in local races and international races (including Chattanooga 70.3 WC last year).

Hope this helps.
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