The GMAN wrote:

There was that article a few years back where athletes were anonymously polled after an Ironman event. I know it was in Europe, Germany maybe, and the number that admitted doping was 1/6 or 1/7. Sorry I don't remember the exact details and don't feel like searching for it.

That's over in Europe where T clinics and usage are nowhere near as prevalent as in the USA.

Maybe I'm with Herbert that it's 10% across the entire AG field, maybe it's less, but it's probably higher in the M35+ AGs and the pointy end of those AGs is very suspect, IMO.

40% drafting. I don't think it's anywhere close to that. I'm talking willful and blatant drafting. Not the I was in someone's draft zone for a bit too long at some point in the race. Then it would be 100%. :-)

5% cheating otherwise. I don't think it's that close either.

Jhanley wrote:
What is the point of this post?
I could say the same to you


Sorry?

That's actually a cool idea. But I think you've got to do 50 yards or even 100 yards to make it more interesting.

What is the point of your post?

rmt wrote:

Herbert wrote:

Based on TheStroBro's argument I guess doping is not cheating either - because there is a penalty. WTF

I think the point Strobro is trying to make, and I'm not convinced I agree though I can see his argument, is better expressed through an analogy to basketball:

If you make contact with a player whilst he is shooting, you have committed a penalty, and a penalty shot is awarded. Although that contact is not allowed it is viewed as a strategic part of the game, and certainly isn't considered to be cheating. However, grab hold of the player whilst he is shooting and push him over whilst he is shooting and you are ejected from the court (for cheating?). I think Strobro is saying that since we punish drafting with a penalty of 5 mins, not ejection/DQ/etc then drafting is analogous to making contact with a player whilst shooting. Is that cheating - I think that's a moral call that everyone is entitled to make their own decision on.

Accolades + sustained competitiveness + increased virility meets expendable income?

Who’da thunk it?

40+, I think your first figure is low (for the top %-age of the AG. I just don’t see how some of the physiques and performances I see are natural. I think your number might be right for the overall, but low for the top 25% of some (at least male) AGs.

yellow with a pinkish tint

I wouldn't be able to guess, and your guess is as good as mine :)

With that said, I don't race against any of you, even when I race. I race against myself. I'm not looking for a podium finish or Kona slot. I'm looking forward to challenging my mind and body to do what seems impossible. I'm a mid pack racer (goals of sub 12hr), and there's no need for me to take any type of item that would risk my health to gain a few minutes on the course. This is for bragging rights 30 years from now when I'm 75, not for Thanksgiving / Christmas bragging rights with extended family / friends in 2018.

As it relates to drafting.... 40% seems high, but as a swimmer who exits mid pack, the first 20 miles is busy, and causes course congestion. Do "I" draft? No, not intentionally. Are there people within 30 feet of each other? Yes, it's impossible (I think) to string out separation of 30 feet between people during the 1st portion of the race for those exiting mid-pack swimming. I was recently in a race where somebody latched onto my rear tire for 10 miles, and that was not the norm, and after a couple of warnings for him to back off, I held out my hand to the next moped / course marshal to capture his race #. Again, not normal, and hope to think that it's far less than 40%. But, even it if is, I can only control MY race and MY actions. At the end of the day (end of the race), I don't care if they beat me by 10 minutes or more. And, unless you're at the point where you're looking for Kona slot or some podium, I'm not sure why others care when others beat them by a few minutes.

Ironman is bigger than a race against people. For me, it's a race against myself and my own demons, limitations, abilities, and skills.

(Note: I fully understand that others might have serious disagreements with my post. That's fine. We're all doing this for different reasons, and I'm willing to share my motivations for doing this as a mid-pack middle-aged guy trying to live a little longer and a little healthier than if I were to be watching football, drinking beer, and talking about my high school glory days)

I would like to do an experiment, put a turnaround point on the run course of a triathlon course that says, "Legal Course-Cutting Turnaround Point" then 10 yards up put the "Legit Turnaround Point". I bet more than 50% would not take the latter, then tack on 2 minute penalty to all the cheaters.

That's cool you race against yourself. If I did that, I would always lose.

I'm over the hill. Old, getting older, which is better than dying I guess. However, I'm not ever going to be as fast as I was, so I have to race against others otherwise I'll always lose. Nobody likes losing all the time, right?

So I don't really feel like racing against other guys that aren't on the same clock as I am because they're doping

I did do that race but he got me by 90 seconds or so. He started several minutes behind me and due to the rolling start, I never saw him or knew he was coming. He ran the fastest marathon of the day and ran me down in the last 2 miles or so.

Wow, in the last two miles...so i'll bet you were pretty happy when he got caught for the doping. How far ahead of him were you on the swim and bike??? Looking at the final results, i see that his name has disappeared but they did not elevate you from 8th to 7th OA and from 3rd to 2nd in your AG; i guess the computer programmers don't have an easy way to do this w/o having to manually update all of the roughly 3000 people below you in the results. In any case, very impressive race on your part!!!

I wouldn't say I was happy. More shocked, upset, angry, and confused than anything. Took me a few days to gather my thoughts on it. I do believe there is more to the story and to IMFL race specifically. I'll just leave it at that though.
He still shows up in the results on sportstats:
https://www.sportstats.ca/...s.xhtml?raceid=47309
Tri-excuse forthcoming: It didn't help that I stopped 4 times on the bike due to an issue with my FD. Cost me ~15 minutes or so on the bike.

OK.... Interesting perspective. Not sure whether you podium or finish mid-pack. I understand people are driven different than I am, and I hope I never walk into the water any time in the future with a burning desire to beat X, Y, or Z. I'm surprised people care about others if you're mid-pack or finish off podium.... And I presume that many of 'us' are off podium athletes who still strive to be as fast as we can be.

Might as well just go out with my friends on Sundays on group ride and we can flog each other up hills. //

I believe that at least 10% of your friends you train with are doping too, best to just ride your bike indoors on the trainer, and hope you dont get a pizza delivery guy who is into crossfit... (-;

Might as well just go out with my friends on Sundays on group ride and we can flog each other up hills. //

I believe that at least 10% of your friends you train with are doping too, best to just ride your bike indoors on the trainer, and hope you dont get a pizza delivery guy who is into crossfit... (-;

I didn't read the study, because tbh I'm too lazy to look it up, but if it was just a voluntary exit poll as it's referenced as then the results aren't statistically significant and you can't draw conclusions based off it

The mental acrobatics people on this thread go through to make up low numbers for the % of dopers (who knew there is “technical, moral, medical, inefficient etc. doping”) is silly but unfortunately just exactly a reflection of reality. Pathetic.

There is only one form of doping:
The illegal one. No IF and BUT.
.
This thread shows again that less and less Tri-sters care about a true athletic competition.

SAD.