Don't pace based on speed? I'd imagine either power, or better yet HR, would be a better pacing metric (particularly in hot conditions).

Yes - I forgot to include that. I tried to keep the bike HR down around 135 but I would have needed a transport truck to get me up the hills.

Even in the small ring spinning- the hills got me working hard.

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Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com

After all the years of bad races at Kona(15 in a row for me) I finally figured out heat mitigation. I just dont go to them anymore. Some bodies are just not meant for extreme heat, no matter what you do. IT is always going to be a drain, even if you are just outside walking. On the other hand, I can race in 30 degree weather with rain all day long, and in the same suit I used for a hot race..

Our true problem is that most every race has to happen in the summer, and summers are getting hotter, so the odd cool race here is quite elusive. Move to England I suppose, heard the ironman over there was perfect for guys like you and me..

Did you start the race properly fueled and hydrated (I start my pre-race fueling/hydration 2 days before an IM)? Did you hydrate enough on the bike? Did you fuel enough on the bike?

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blog

I was just sitting here hoping you would respond with wisdom from all your experience- your killing me 😊

Unfortunately, You are probably right.

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Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com

Yes - I planned it all out. Fuel plan up to and through the bike was right on.

As soon as I sat in the shade and cooled off I felt recovered. Later in the evening we were at dinner like the race never happened.

I know there were some jokes about “cooling busses” which were fictional as far as I could tell - but I was looking for them. 5 minutes in that bus may have made a difference for me.

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Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
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there’s only so much you can do and it sounds like you tried everything.

I switched to a white top from black. If that helped, idk. I race with a lg-p09 aero helmet but take the visor off to help with cooling and remove the front vent plug. Every aid station I would squirt water directly in that vent and that worked great to help cool my head.

I wasn’t happy with how hot my liquid nutrition got. Much warmer than my training rides. So it was gross. I’m considering in the future just taking gatorade and water from the aid stations. At minimum, they weren’t hot and many were cold.

It was just a hot day and being out there that long in the heat in direct sun is tough. I train in the heat frequently but I’m not out there for 10 hours in the heat training. It’s for a few hours usually.

Did the cooling sleeves help? In the humidity just seems they would be an extra layer but many seem to like them

I think the answer is that you do everything you can (and you did) do, and then just do the best you can. As I said in another thread, I believe those were the toughest conditions of my 29 IM races. Although, real cold and rainy days are tough too. Never give up!

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

Yes. My nutrition got gross. I poured water in the helmet vent & directly over my head.

Yes the sleeves worked great for me. I had not used them before.

The on course water was hot for the second loop.

I may try the insulated bottles to re- fill my main unit going forward.

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Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com

I carried a handheld for the first time and every aid station stopped to top it off with water and ice.

I kept 2 sponges under my kit around my shoulders and soaked them with ice water from my handheld as I was leaving every aid station. And then squirted my head and back of my neck as needed. Also pre-loaded sodium with a combination NUUN/BASE drink the night before and the morning of.

All that stuff was new for me to try but it worked really well. My HR stayed within reason all day (Augusta).

I did see some people who would stop at the aid stations and add ice to their bottles. Obviously that assumes there is ice to be had.

I could at least handle warm water. Hot electrolyte drink. Yuck!

This was my first IM, but I've done quite a few marathons and century rides in similar conditions, so I'll weigh in with what I can offer.

I agree with all of the above (and as cool as my black tri suit looked, I probably should have went white/reflective, lol), but I think the most important thing is slowing down...as hard as it is to do, and especially when you don't feel like you need to. Your stomach can only hold so much fluid, your body can only absorb at a certain rate, and unless you find a point of equilibrium between what's going out and what you can take in, eventually it catches up to you. I spent the whole race feeling like a penguin, because my stomach literally wasn't holding any more fluid, but I was still dehydrated until long after the race was over.

My marathon pace is usually 3:30ish, sometimes a bit less. It was KILLING me running what turned out to be a 12 minute pace, but I was strong at the end. I think the bike can be deceptive as well, because as long as you're moving, you really don't feel the heat and don't adjust like you should.

And as also mentioned above, it's just not for everybody. If you live in Houston or Florida and your body is adapted to extreme heat and humidity, it's not nearly as bad as if you live in Toronto or Seattle and can only get so many days to acclimate your body. From what research I did on Chattanooga before signing up, 2016 was an outlier, and spending a lot of your training time preparing for hot weather was statistically time better spent elsewhere. Sometimes the last minute surprises aren't really anything you can prepare for.

^^^ this. I’ve always struggled in heat and worked to adjust to it. This year at DK I pulled the pace way back and stickily adhered to hydration/nutrition strategy yet still fell apart around point as year prior (not a fitness issue). Same thing happened on a couple subsequent warmish summer outings.

Only theory I have is that I sweat a lot, and after a point too much blood is trying to regulate cooling, making adequate digestion difficult. All goes south from there. I’ve given up on performing well in heat.

I’ve given up on performing well in heat.//

I found that in my pro days, just having top fitness and being young, I could do up to 4 hours in the heat, so I could race well up to half ironmans. Unfortunately it did not stretch to anything past the time, and lord knows that I tried and tried. Now as an older AG'er, I think my heat limit is about 1 1/2 hours, maybe even less. I still try and avoid anything too hot, and really look for those winter/fall/spring races that have a good possibility of being cold. I got lucky one year at Oceanside 70.3, cold and raining, and only got hot the last hour.


And of course everyone has their own story, and hearing ones from folks that are even 10% better than us in the heat is pointless. What works for them, is not a recipe for success for those of us on the far end of the heat curve. I do know that if I slow down to a crawl I could do the races, but then I'm not really racing, am I?


My advice to you dan if you really have a need to finish a race like that, is ride 15 mph, and then run a pace that is close to fast walking. You will finish, you will beat the time cutoff, you will just not be that happy with it. So my question has always been, why then??

I guess it's how you look at it. If you want an absolute best time, you might as well skip anything with undesirable conditions. Not being critical of that, it's a worthy goal, just not always practical or realistic.

Personally, I like the challenge of taking each race as it comes, and knowing I'm just about empty at the finish line. Sometimes that's a 19 minute 5k, sometimes it's a 25 minute 5k. In this case, I wasn't in any danger of winning anything, but knowing that I really couldn't have done much better without a very high risk of failing in the attempt was plenty. I gave my best effort, didn't hold back, and made it to the end. For me, that's what this sport is all about, regardless of the time or distance. Everyone gets their own thing out of it.

After your workouts, immediately take a very hot shower and stay in there for a while. That will not only get you used to the heat, but also humidity.

I ONLY race hot weather events, as I cannot handle air temps below 72 degrees :)

For me, that's what this sport is all about, regardless of the time or distance. Everyone gets their own thing out of it. //

And for most, I would presume too. Finishing is the goal, but there is a subset of athletes that need to finish within the abilities they trained for. I adopted your mentality for a few races in Kona, after 9 DNF's. Mostly because of peer pressure, I got tired of the, dont you want a finishers shirt, you gotta finish this thing one time, and on and on. Of course I knew for a fact I could finish the stupid race, but that just was never my goal. I raced it, until I couldn't, then either got a ride to the hospital, or spent 3 or 4 hours in medical, getting 3 to 5 IV's.


So I backed way off my pace, saying I will just ride with the lead woman. Unfortunately for me, it was my training partner who was a sub 9 hour woman!! So I raced her pace after soft peddling for 50 miles for her to catch up from the swim deficit, rode well behind to stay out of her way, and then ran a pretty good easy pace for 16 miles(not her pace, she was gone). Wheels fell off anyway, just later in the race, I fast walked and even broke into a jog once in awhile for those last 10, and I got my finishers shirt!!! 9;44 was not what I had planned for, was capable of(outside of racing in an oven), but it got me my shirt, and all my friends off my back. But to me, it didnt feel any different than all the other years of DNF's, but I did tap out of racing with the guys I would be with all season, often beating them all. I learned my lesson, finally..)-;


SO for me, sport is about a lot of things, mostly the day to day training and achieving of goals. But race day is to showcase those months and months of hard work(and fun too).

What was your heat adaptation strategy? Hot rides, sauna time, hot runs?

Ps, nobody should ever do a swim.

I ran mid day all summer 85-92F

No sauna

Long hot rides but only high 80’s

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Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com

Is anyone trying to get IM to push the Chattanooga race later into the fall?? That seems like the obvious thing for me... I'm a novice to triathlon but have done a few marathons in warm to humid weather and it's just brutal. Not sure what the point is with races being timed so that a majority of participants will be thermal-redlining for much of the time.

Also, this is why the Olympic marathon ought to be a winter event and not a summer one...

I used to have the same problem with racing in the heat.. I would do the hot rides and long runs in high dew point weather and still had trouble with the heat...

For me what worked was doing 5-6 sauna sessions after a workout for around 3 weeks, I would then begin a taper off period to reduce the heat stress 7-8 days before the race... I would also occasionally substitute a hot bath instead of a sauna session after a workout if I didn't have access to a sauna that day.

I'm not saying this is the golden bullet, but it has helped me tremendously.

To be honest, I expected my performance to be a lot worse than it was. I held a higher pace on the bike ~19mph than most all of my training rides and my heart rate stayed below 130bpm. I live and train in Texas so obviously much more acclimated to the heat than others, but I did not think it was that hot out and I was one of the last athletes to start the race. I made sure I started the race properly fueled and pre-loaded with sodium the night before and morning of the race. I also made sure to get in the sauna for 20 min each day the week before. My average heart rate for the run was 118bpm (again expected to be much higher) and I slowed down about 1 min/mi slower than my training runs which ended up being around 9:30min/mi for the first loop before muscle fatigued turned it into 10:30-11 on the second loop. I doused myself with cold water at each bike aid station and kept my liquids cold, but other than that kept a steady effort on the pace.

Dan ... I was there this weekend and was there in 2016 so aware of the conditions. Some thoughts

* Doing long rides constantly in high temps is counter productive: Poor quality running, extended recovery, long term low level fatigue see you show up on race day sitting on a low level of heat fatigue / stress. You are better off getting high quality runs. Instead, realize that finishing your long rides in warm weather + transition runs are a very good stimulus. Also shorter indoor rides that generate high sweat rate add high value

* In addition, you can use proper and consistent post workout hot tub or sauna protocol a couple times a week adn then add frequency of those from say 17 to 7 days out

* The Swim ... 81 degrees + Swim Skin + Swim Cap + improper pacing = core temperature already elevated + sweat rate already elevated ... Being very swim fit enough that allows you to slow down and "coast" the swim is a good strategy. The amount if athletes hitting T1 already "hot" was an eye opener.

* Important to show up VERY FIT & rested

* Consider an ice sock on the bike ... which would mean stopping 1-2 times over the 2nd half of the bike BUT maybe quite worth it.

Good Luck

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Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com

After years if training in hot conditions trying to acclimate I found the solution for me at least to some degree

Train cool live hot

No A/C in the car even at 98 degrees outside

Change A/C in the house from 75 to 79

Made a big difference for me