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Challenge Penticton may be no more...
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http://www.pentictonherald.ca/...c0-9352b9f3d0bb.html


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City council is expected to hear Tuesday that race organizer Michael Brown is trying to cut ties with the Challenge Family and run the triathlon under a different brand name.
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Re: Challenge Penticton may be no more... [randomtriguy] [ In reply to ]
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Should we start the rumors of the return of Ironman Canada?

Matt
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Re: Challenge Penticton may be no more... [randomtriguy] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Challenge Penticton may be no more... [randomtriguy] [ In reply to ]
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I'm shocked!

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: Challenge Penticton may be no more... [randomtriguy] [ In reply to ]
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I wonder if those that strongly advocated that Penticton wouldn't miss a beat with losing/giving up the IM brand and going with Challenge will finally admit they were naive and wrong? Probably not as many of them haven't been around here in a very long time anyways.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/.../IMC_rumor_P4122291/
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Re: Challenge Penticton may be no more... [logella] [ In reply to ]
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Let's just stop with this crap.


Ironman CdA is dead. IM Whistler only survives because it has a 70.3 to keep numbers up.
Ironman in Penticton would have been on a slow decline (and maybe death) as well had it stuck with the brand.
Of course, it didn't help that Ironman scheduled races on dates to crowd Challenge out of the market.
But still, triathlon participation is WAY down.
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Re: Challenge Penticton may be no more... [NordicSkier] [ In reply to ]
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NordicSkier wrote:
But still, triathlon participation is WAY down.

By what measure? Because races aren't selling out like they did in the past? You don't think that has anything to do with the dilution of participants as WTC contunues to jam more races into the year?
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Re: Challenge Penticton may be no more... [NordicSkier] [ In reply to ]
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Way smaller sized events - but it seems like the local races (Cultus, Oliver, etc) are all selling out
I think something more moderate will do OK in Penticton, but the days of like 3000+ people are probably over
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Re: Challenge Penticton may be no more... [y_nigel] [ In reply to ]
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y_nigel wrote:
Way smaller sized events - but it seems like the local races (Cultus, Oliver, etc) are all selling out
I think something more moderate will do OK in Penticton, but the days of like 3000+ people are probably over

Axel's Fondo gets 2600+ now for a cycling event. This event didn't exist 10 years ago. I'm going to assume that at least some of the Fondo participants have foregone a triathlon vacation for a cycling vacation in Penticton.

Single sport events seem to be on the rise at the expense of triathlon. Ultra running is booming right now too.
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Re: Challenge Penticton may be no more... [TH3_FRB] [ In reply to ]
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You'll have to go look for the stats from the national federations, but 2015 was peak triathlon and numbers are down since then, at least in North America.
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Re: Challenge Penticton may be no more... [NordicSkier] [ In reply to ]
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NordicSkier wrote:
Let's just stop with this crap.


Ironman CdA is dead. IM Whistler only survives because it has a 70.3 to keep numbers up.
Ironman in Penticton would have been on a slow decline (and maybe death) as well had it stuck with the brand.
Of course, it didn't help that Ironman scheduled races on dates to crowd Challenge out of the market.
But still, triathlon participation is WAY down.

Triathlon participation is way down, you are right about that. Catastrophically so, it would appear, at Challenge branded events here in NA.
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Re: Challenge Penticton may be no more... [Pun_Times] [ In reply to ]
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Pun_Times wrote:
Should we start the rumors of the return of Ironman Canada?

Seems premature considering they just penned a new 3 yr contract with Whistler this summer.
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Re: Challenge Penticton may be no more... [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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The GMAN wrote:
I'm shocked!

^This. After Penticton got a renewed taste of large crowds at this summers ITU Multi-sport Festival, the thought of going back to rinky-dinky Challenge must have been too much to bear.
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Re: Challenge Penticton may be no more... [gregn] [ In reply to ]
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gregn wrote:
Triathlon participation is way down, you are right about that. Catastrophically so, it would appear, at Challenge branded events here in NA.

IM CdA, in it's final year, could only get 1100 athletes. It used to sell out at close to 3000. Participation was down catastrophically, it would appear.
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Re: Challenge Penticton may be no more... [logella] [ In reply to ]
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logella wrote:
I wonder if those that strongly advocated that Penticton wouldn't miss a beat with losing/giving up the IM brand and going with Challenge will finally admit they were naive and wrong? Probably not as many of them haven't been around here in a very long time anyways.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/.../IMC_rumor_P4122291/

I'm not about to gloat or anything because I wish no ill will on Challenge or any race for that matter. Having more races and more options is always a good thing. I have been extremely critical of Challenge when it comes to how they handled their entrance into the North American market. Their business model is just bad. I said from day one that the Penticton race wasn't going to be successful. I also said, even in that original thread you linked, that there were an awful lot of people that were way underestimating the power of having the Ironman name in the title of the race, and way overestimating Penticton as the draw. Challenge fell into that trap, the powers that be in Penticton fell into that trap, and a lot of ST posters thinking emotionally, and not logically, fell into that trap. I also predicted the race was done when they announced all the ITU stuff for 2016-2017. By the same token they could move the race from Whistler, and put it in Toronto and call it Ironman Canada and it wouldn't really change the registration habits at all. It's the branding way more than it's the location. I really can't see how people didn't realize that 5 years ago. I remember reading the initial press that Penticton was dropping Ironman and going with Challenge and my immediate thought was, "That's pretty fucking stupid!"

Me from 2012 in response to someone thinking the Challenge race would do as well as the Ironman race:

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I think you're being very, very optimistic, to the point of not thinking clearly. The only Challenge race that sells 2000 or more is Roth. The other Challenge races don't come close to that number (maybe Copenhagen does but that's Europe) and this is North America which is 100% dominated by WTC. You're one of those people that overestimates the allure of Penticton and underestimates the word Ironman being used in front of the race name. 90% of potential registrants only want to see Ironman Canada in the name and could give a flip where it's actually located. Just being a realist which is something many of you are not.

I don't have a dog in this fight and don't really care either way. Some of you need to separate your emotions from this. WTC is about to give a lesson in Economics and Marketing 101 to many of you blinded by your emotions or allegiances.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: Challenge Penticton may be no more... [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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This was so damn predictable I can only laugh at those who ripped me a new one 5 years ago when I said it was a huge mistake to lose IM in Penticton.

CDA spent many of the last 10+ either struggling to sell out or selling out after 8 or so months. Penticton always sold out immediately because anyone who did that race had a very strong attachment to it. It had that sweet combination of IM branding and a very unique location that is difficult for me to explain to those who never did that race.

Sure, branding definitely makes a big difference but I've done many IMs over the past 13 years and there was something very special about Penticton. For me, the only location that came close to Penticton was Kona but that had a completely different feel about it and for very different reasons.

Thanks, Chris
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Re: Challenge Penticton may be no more... [NordicSkier] [ In reply to ]
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NordicSkier wrote:
gregn wrote:
Triathlon participation is way down, you are right about that. Catastrophically so, it would appear, at Challenge branded events here in NA.


IM CdA, in it's final year, could only get 1100 athletes. It used to sell out at close to 3000. Participation was down catastrophically, it would appear.

Ironman Coeur d'Alene could only get 1100 athletes...changing market.

Challenge Pentiction could only get 360 athletes/teams...changing market + decision to boot WTC and bring in Challenge.
(Half - 126m/89f, Relay - 32 teams, AquaBike - 27m/20f, Standard - 29m/37w)
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Re: Challenge Penticton may be no more... [NordicSkier] [ In reply to ]
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NordicSkier wrote:
Axel's Fondo gets 2600+ now for a cycling event. This event didn't exist 10 years ago. I'm going to assume that at least some of the Fondo participants have foregone a triathlon vacation for a cycling vacation in Penticton. Single sport events seem to be on the rise at the expense of triathlon. Ultra running is booming right now too.

This reflects how I kinda feel myself at the moment; jaded with training SBR for an Iron dist every Spring/Summer. I find myself eyeing-up Fondos & Audax rides more & more, plus the 'Ride Across Britain' also looks like an interesting diversion.

29 years and counting
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Re: Challenge Penticton may be no more... [gregn] [ In reply to ]
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Ironman CDA's big drop in participation numbers had much to do with the date change, they moved it from late June when it was the only full for a month either way to late August around when most races are. Ironman Canada when it was in Penticton competed with how many full distance races? There are just so many full distance races in North America, and only so many people who will do them.
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Re: Challenge Penticton may be no more... [lakerfan] [ In reply to ]
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lakerfan wrote:
This was so damn predictable I can only laugh at those who ripped me a new one 5 years ago when I said it was a huge mistake to lose IM in Penticton.

CDA spent many of the last 10+ either struggling to sell out or selling out after 8 or so months. Penticton always sold out immediately because anyone who did that race had a very strong attachment to it. It had that sweet combination of IM branding and a very unique location that is difficult for me to explain to those who never did that race.

Sure, branding definitely makes a big difference but I've done many IMs over the past 13 years and there was something very special about Penticton. For me, the only location that came close to Penticton was Kona but that had a completely different feel about it and for very different reasons.

Thanks, Chris

I never had the opportunity to race IM Canada before it moved on from Penticton so I jumped at the chance to race the ITU long course champs there last month and see what the big deal was ... except it wasn't. The water was nice, the scenery was beautiful, and most of the people were friendly, but the town certainly wasn't special. In fact, having done IM Coeur d'Alene, I would say that was a better venue. All I can gather is that Penticton offers something (?) that attracts some people...but what it is I have no idea. I'm glad I went to Penticton but once was enough, thank you.
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Re: Challenge Penticton may be no more... [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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HuffNPuff wrote:
lakerfan wrote:
This was so damn predictable I can only laugh at those who ripped me a new one 5 years ago when I said it was a huge mistake to lose IM in Penticton.

CDA spent many of the last 10+ either struggling to sell out or selling out after 8 or so months. Penticton always sold out immediately because anyone who did that race had a very strong attachment to it. It had that sweet combination of IM branding and a very unique location that is difficult for me to explain to those who never did that race.

Sure, branding definitely makes a big difference but I've done many IMs over the past 13 years and there was something very special about Penticton. For me, the only location that came close to Penticton was Kona but that had a completely different feel about it and for very different reasons.

Thanks, Chris


I never had the opportunity to race IM Canada before it moved on from Penticton so I jumped at the chance to race the ITU long course champs there last month and see what the big deal was ... except it wasn't. The water was nice, the scenery was beautiful, and most of the people were friendly, but the town certainly wasn't special. In fact, having done IM Coeur d'Alene, I would say that was a better venue. All I can gather is that Penticton offers something (?) that attracts some people...but what it is I have no idea. I'm glad I went to Penticton but once was enough, thank you.

My wife and I had a totally different experience. We loved the place and would go back for another multifestival race anytime!!

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: Challenge Penticton may be no more... [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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That's not relevant Dave. You are saying you would go back for a specific event that is not likely to return for many years if ever. The question is will you go back next year for whatever race they put on to replace Challenge Penticton? Will you go back and do Ironman Canada if it returns to Penticton?
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Re: Challenge Penticton may be no more... [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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HuffNPuff wrote:
That's not relevant Dave. You are saying you would go back for a specific event that is not likely to return for many years if ever. The question is will you go back next year for whatever race they put on to replace Challenge Penticton? Will you go back and do Ironman Canada if it returns to Penticton?


I do not do long stuff anymore so nope, no IM's for me. Too old. (Just hope they never bring Tahoe back :) )

So does not matter if Challenge or IM. I am a short course guy!!

And, I have zero desire to go to any location to race if only one event. Way too much money and way too little racing for me.
Getting 4 races in 9 days at Penticton was the best bang for the buck possible. One plane cost. One bike transportation cost. Just a few
more days of hotel costs.

One of many reasons I had zero interest in Rotterdam. Again, all that money for a single race. No way.

Even though I am qualified for 3 races in Denmark, and hope to get a ranking spot for the LC tri for the 4th, just struggle if I want to fly that much and
be out of NA. Plan tickets are only 1K round trip so that is not bad. Seems the hotel costs would be around the same as Penticton. Just not sure yet what
that weather might be like, and is it a "nice" place to visit? Bike shipment costs will probably be nuts so renting might be a better option. And need to see if they will do a Multisport Legend program like Penticton did.

Another big positive for Penticton is the way the community closed down their main roads for the races!!!! Was total first class, and it was in the heart of the town.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Last edited by: h2ofun: Sep 21, 17 11:27
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Re: Challenge Penticton may be no more... [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
And need to see if they will do a Multisport Legend program like Penticton did.

So if they give you a participation award you would increase your chances of going. All along I thought participation awards only mattered to Millennials.
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Re: Challenge Penticton may be no more... [B.McMaster] [ In reply to ]
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B.McMaster wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
And need to see if they will do a Multisport Legend program like Penticton did.


So if they give you a participation award you would increase your chances of going. All along I thought participation awards only mattered to Millennials.

If you think my legend belt buckle I have is only a participation award, why do you not try to race 4 events at race effort in 9 days in Denmark?

I am getting my belt for my buckle on Sat so I can wear it. What will I be called then? :)

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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