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Chain cleaning/degreasing expectations?
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BLUF: I don't know what my expectations for chain cleaning should be.

I have usually just used some WD40 while getting the rest of my bike cleaning stuff ready. Then I would just use a couple of nail brushes with Dawn on them to clean the chain. After cleaning, but before, re-lubing, I would still get blackness on my fingers if I ran them along the chain. So, I got some Simple Green Bike cleaner (the bike specific stuff) to try. I wet the bike, let the SG soak fora bit (5 minutes maybe) and then cleaned as usual. Same thing with the black!

I had higher expectations for the SG bike cleaner/degreaser. So, now that I have been let down...

1) Were my expectations too high for the end result? What should I expect?
2) Was the chain just THAT dirty that I need to do it a few times?

Side question: Earlier this year I installed a new crankset. It has now developed a haziness. Cause? Bad? Remedy?

Thanks!
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Re: Chain cleaning/degreasing expectations? [lightning33] [ In reply to ]
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My prediction is that this thread will devolve into 10 million different recommendations on the "only right way to clean your chain.". It will then morph into a discussion of lube vs. wax.

Here's my take. I used to be super-OCD about cleaning chains. I had a WIpperman quick link so I could take the chain off, soak it in a glass jar with mineral spirits, dry it thoroughly, and then re-lube/re-install. It sure was nice and pretty and worked great. It was also a messy and time-consuming process. After several years of this I got lazy and just started putting a drop of ProLink lube on each link, spinning the cranks a few times, wiping the chain off and calling it good enough. Guess what - it sure looks pretty and works great. My $0.02 is don't sweat it. It doesn't need to be completely free of any black stuff coming off on your fingers. Just lube, wipe it off, and ride. FWIW - I do have a separate ultra-optimized chain from Premier Tactical for racing, so this is just my training chain that gets 'neglected' this way.
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Re: Chain cleaning/degreasing expectations? [lightning33] [ In reply to ]
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lightning33 wrote:
BLUF: I don't know what my expectations for chain cleaning should be.

I have usually just used some WD40 while getting the rest of my bike cleaning stuff ready. Then I would just use a couple of nail brushes with Dawn on them to clean the chain. After cleaning, but before, re-lubing, I would still get blackness on my fingers if I ran them along the chain. So, I got some Simple Green Bike cleaner (the bike specific stuff) to try. I wet the bike, let the SG soak fora bit (5 minutes maybe) and then cleaned as usual. Same thing with the black!

I had higher expectations for the SG bike cleaner/degreaser. So, now that I have been let down...

1) Were my expectations too high for the end result? What should I expect?
2) Was the chain just THAT dirty that I need to do it a few times?

Side question: Earlier this year I installed a new crankset. It has now developed a haziness. Cause? Bad? Remedy?

Thanks!

Simplegreen if not completely washed off will haze metallic surfaces, someone else can specify, but it's a common problem for those that don't know about it.If you have chrome stuff, prob wise to avoid SG.

If you don't ride in rain/wet stuff at all, seriously consider going to a waxed chain - it sounds more painstaking but actually takes LESS time and costs less than compared to doing a off-the-bike wet lube bike clean. The chain runs so clean that you can grab it with your hand and it leaves only a light easily removable dust mark (NO chain tattoos anymore!)

Seriously, it was the best move I made when I decided to work on my own bikes - the black chain tattoos were killing all enjoyment of tinkering, so it was a revelation to have them disappear.
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Re: Chain cleaning/degreasing expectations? [lightning33] [ In reply to ]
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I mean, at its most basic, what is considered "clean"?
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Re: Chain cleaning/degreasing expectations? [lightning33] [ In reply to ]
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lightning33 wrote:
I mean, at its most basic, what is considered "clean"?

The fundamental purpose of cleaning a chain is to preserve the proper operation of the drivetrain and minimize wear. If your drivetrain runs smoothly and quietly, shifts precisely, and the chain and cogs don't wear out prematurely, then the chain is 'clean enough'. What it looks like is irrelevant.
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Re: Chain cleaning/degreasing expectations? [el gato] [ In reply to ]
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el gato wrote:
My prediction is that this thread will devolve into 10 million different recommendations on the "only right way to clean your chain.". It will then morph into a discussion of lube vs. wax.
...

el gato - so true.

I am pretty OCD about cleaning my bike too. I find the black stuff is typically trapped in paces hard to see or hard to reach such as; around the rear derailleur, between each link, or on the inside of the big ring.
I like to hold a rag (apply your preferred cleaning solution) around the rear derailleur and pinch the jockey wheels and spin the cranks. Clean the inside of the big ring. and if you really want to floss a pipe-cleaner between each link.

I also agree it does not need to be completely clean.

Everyone has their own standards of clean.

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Re: Chain cleaning/degreasing expectations? [lightning33] [ In reply to ]
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If you want it that clean you either need to make several passes (depending on how dirty it is), or switch to an ultrasonic cleaner.

+1 in switching to a wax like Squirt. It’s biodegradable and you don’t even have to wipe it off (just lube and ride). Only lasts about 200mi though, and you do have to thoroughly clean the chain before the first application (to get rid of the non-wax lube).

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)
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Re: Chain cleaning/degreasing expectations? [lightning33] [ In reply to ]
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lightning33 wrote:
I mean, at its most basic, what is considered "clean"?

Careful who you ask, I've got some clean room/vacuum engineers who will give you very specific answers. Everything besides that is relative.
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Re: Chain cleaning/degreasing expectations? [lightning33] [ In reply to ]
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It sounds like you want the black stuff gone.

Your going to need something solvent based.

I use mineral spirits in a jar. 2 to 3 oz. shake empty, repeat. Usually about 5 times before the waste is clear.

I do like my waxed chain much cleaner.
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Re: Chain cleaning/degreasing expectations? [el gato] [ In reply to ]
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el gato wrote:
lightning33 wrote:
I mean, at its most basic, what is considered "clean"?

The fundamental purpose of cleaning a chain is to preserve the proper operation of the drivetrain and minimize wear. If your drivetrain runs smoothly and quietly, shifts precisely, and the chain and cogs don't wear out prematurely, then the chain is 'clean enough'. What it looks like is irrelevant.

That may be your broad definition of cleanliness, and I subscribe to those things too, but there is another fundamental purpose of ultrasonic cleaning and waxing my chains regularly: to not get shit all over my hands, car seats, walls, etc.; to be able to remove my chain for any reason without gloves; and to prevent gunk buildup in my drivetrain.

I used to obsessively Rock N Roll clean/lube my chain after every ride, and it was still fairly filthy all the time — by my definition, not yours. It wasn’t clean enough. Really pretty simple to turn on the crock pot before the ride, pop it off with the whipperman link, let sit while posting to the Strava, pull out to hang dry, and re install later. Whether this extra effort is worth it to you for the additional cleanliness is totally personal, but it is to me. I have these amazing bikes and I like to invest the time to keep them in top condition, especially with respect to the drivetrain.
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Re: Chain cleaning/degreasing expectations? [nbaffaro] [ In reply to ]
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nbaffaro wrote:
It sounds like you want the black stuff gone.

Your going to need something solvent based.

I use mineral spirits in a jar. 2 to 3 oz. shake empty, repeat. Usually about 5 times before the waste is clear.

I do like my waxed chain much cleaner.
This. Though I was going to say soda bottle (ie plastic and robust), degreaser, and shake the **** out of it.

All the black stuff is debris in the oil, which is inside all the hidden bits on your chain, not just on the visible surfaces.
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Re: Chain cleaning/degreasing expectations? [el gato] [ In reply to ]
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el gato wrote:
I used to be super-OCD about cleaning chains. I had a WIpperman quick link so I could take the chain off, soak it in a glass jar with mineral spirits, dry it thoroughly, and then re-lube/re-install. It sure was nice and pretty and worked great. It was also a messy and time-consuming process. After several years of this I got lazy and just started putting a drop of ProLink lube on each link, spinning the cranks a few times, wiping the chain off and calling it good enough. Guess what - it sure looks pretty and works great. My $0.02 is don't sweat it. It doesn't need to be completely free of any black stuff coming off on your fingers. Just lube, wipe it off, and ride.

I did the same (removed chain and washed in mineral spirits) and now do the same (just lube with ProLink) but now usually add one step - before putting on the lube I wipe the chain off - either with a dry rag or sometimes with the Protowels - so as to get off surface dirt that the lube might bring into the chain.


http://www.jt10000.com/
Last edited by: jt10000: Sep 4, 18 2:36
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Re: Chain cleaning/degreasing expectations? [jt10000] [ In reply to ]
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What is the best way to do this wax thing then?

I've heard talk of removing chains, ultrasound cleaning and elaborate soaking in finest chemicals etc etc. But what if i am a lazy bastard who just wants to squirt something on once evey 200 miles and enjoy a fast, quiet drive train with no black crap?
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Re: Chain cleaning/degreasing expectations? [RCCo] [ In reply to ]
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RCCo wrote:
What is the best way to do this wax thing then?
I don't do that.

I'm sure you can search this forum or Google for detailed instructions.


http://www.jt10000.com/
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Re: Chain cleaning/degreasing expectations? [RCCo] [ In reply to ]
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RCCo wrote:
What is the best way to do this wax thing then?

I've heard talk of removing chains, ultrasound cleaning and elaborate soaking in finest chemicals etc etc. But what if i am a lazy bastard who just wants to squirt something on once evey 200 miles and enjoy a fast, quiet drive train with no black crap?

I wax my chains on all my bikes now... it works great as a lube and is clean.

I pop my chain off, toss it in a heated ultrasonic with a water/degreaser mixture... run it through a cycle or two. Dry it and toss it in a little crock pot full of Molten Speed Wax for a few minutes... pull it out with some pliers and a screw driver... the chain is really hotat this point!

Hang it, then flex it a little after it cools and remount it. Whole process takes 30 minutes or so counting the waiting periods. I usually multi-task while doing my chain, wash my bike or something esle in my shop.

It really isn't that bad after you've done it a time or two and get a system down.
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Re: Chain cleaning/degreasing expectations? [lightning33] [ In reply to ]
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I followed this guide and my chain is sparkling.

Clean

---------------------------------------------------------------

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/profile/domingjm
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Re: Chain cleaning/degreasing expectations? [xeon] [ In reply to ]
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I think you all (not you specifically) have too much time on your hands!!! I keep a pile of old rags next to my work stand. I frequently pedal backwards through the rag and re-lube. Take maybe 2 minutes. Runs pretty smooth.

David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.
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Re: Chain cleaning/degreasing expectations? [david] [ In reply to ]
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I used to be more meticulous with my chain. But then I realized that I'm doing all this cleaning and maintenance work to help prolong the life of a $10 part. Didn't seem worth it. So now I do the spray and wipe method. I use the WD40 with silicone in it. Works great.
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Re: Chain cleaning/degreasing expectations? [david] [ In reply to ]
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david wrote:
I think you all (not you specifically) have too much time on your hands!!! I keep a pile of old rags next to my work stand. I frequently pedal backwards through the rag and re-lube. Take maybe 2 minutes. Runs pretty smooth.
Not going to disagree it takes more time than wiping and traditional lubing... I do really like the fact that my drive train is clean to touch in addition to being a great lubricant.
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Re: Chain cleaning/degreasing expectations? [xeon] [ In reply to ]
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Buy the Park Tool chain cleaner. Put some diluted Simple Green in there and go to town. Spray your bike off. Chain will be like-new clean.

Also, dry lube is the way to go unless you are absolutely going to be getting the bike wet during a ride. Dry lube is sooooo much easier to keep the drivetrain clean. It also doesn't muck up other parts of your bike like wet lube does.

Wet lube just stains everything nasty black. Only when necessary.
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Re: Chain cleaning/degreasing expectations? [stanisz73] [ In reply to ]
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stanisz73 wrote:
....help prolong the life of a $10 part. Didn't seem worth it.

Since when is a decent chain $10? I'm not sure you can even find a shitty chain for $10. A cheap KMC (x10.93) chain is $30, an expensive (x10sl-dlc) one is $100. If the chain wears too much, then the rear cassette and/or chainring(s) will wear....Which are also $30-$100.

Besides, there is measureable friction in the chain---especially a dirty one. For me, I find that a clean-lubed chain is more CONSISTENT in this regard. The molten wax process is way more involved to describe than it is to actually do. What sounds like a bunch of work, is really only about 5 minutes of action tops.

As noted by others above, besides being the lowest friction method of lubing a chain, it also leave you with a drive train that is perpetually clean to the touch. I never really appreciated that aspect until I starting doing it last year. All those little actions that involve possibly touching any drive train component used to involve all kinds of shenanigans to avoid getting a tattoo:

Removing a rear wheel to install new tires, new tube, repair a flat, new/different cassette, true the wheel, replace brake pads, etc.
Reinstalling a dropped / sucked chain
Adjusting a derailleur
Cleaning the chain
Replacing the chain

Depending on my desire to get grease on my hands, all of those tasks might involve some manner of trying to prevent that from happening (putting on gloves, or some "third hand" (screw driver, pliers, etc) to touch the greasy parts). I never really realized how many "tricks" I had for avoiding the tattoos. Now, I just grab the chain with my bare hands---no muss, no fuss. I can do it dressed in a suit without fear. If I get a flat on the road, I don't have to worry about wiping my face with a greasy finger and looking like a linebacker.

I'd probably look like a noob with a chainring tattoo, if I ever went back to a liquid lubed chain setup.
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Re: Chain cleaning/degreasing expectations? [lightning33] [ In reply to ]
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Is the chain cleaner than it was when you started? Then all is good.

I almost always get at least a little black residue on my paper towel after wiping off the excess new lube, even if I use my ultra sonic cleaner. The way I look at it, if it is on the rag and no longer in/on the chain, you have done your work, not failed in some way. The dirt has to go somewhere . . . .
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Re: Chain cleaning/degreasing expectations? [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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burnthesheep wrote:
Buy the Park Tool chain cleaner. Put some diluted Simple Green in there and go to town. Spray your bike off. Chain will be like-new clean.

Also, dry lube is the way to go unless you are absolutely going to be getting the bike wet during a ride. Dry lube is sooooo much easier to keep the drivetrain clean. It also doesn't muck up other parts of your bike like wet lube does.

Wet lube just stains everything nasty black. Only when necessary.

Simple Green is a poor choice for cleaning the chain. Any residue will etch the metal surfaces, and degrade the chain (decrease its life, increase the friction, etc). I used dawn dish detergent when I used to follow that approach.

Getting a chain squeaky clean using the park tool takes WAAAY longer than waxing does, and frankly doesn't do nearly as good of a job. I used one for 20 years before switching to the molton wax approach. That process was much more involved, with lots of "voodoo magic" to try and get the damn things ACTUALLY clean.

1. Spray the chain with degreaser. run it backwards to work it down into the chain. Let it soak.
2. Fill chain cleaner tool with soap, install, run backwards.
3. Get hose sprayer, and rinse chain and tool with lots of water until it runs clear.
4. Repeat steps 2-3.
5. Let chain dry in sun hoping to get all the water out of chain (or use air compressor, then let it dry...repeat until no more water comes out).

How many times did I do everything in that 20 years, and then lube the chain only to get blackness on my hands before I even went for a ride? Spray dry lube still has a solvent to deliver the lube, which then dries. That solvent will dissolve any hidden grease, and bring it to the surface of the chain.

And then its even less fun in the winter. The wife always loved it when I washed the bike in the tub when it was 15F outside. :-)
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Re: Chain cleaning/degreasing expectations? [lightning33] [ In reply to ]
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I use Oreilly auto non foaming engine degreaser, the grime just falls off of everything, then i use dawn soap to wash off the degreaser, then i let it sit and dry and lube it with the yellow rock and roll.. Question is how bad is the degreaser on everything? I love how it cleans the cassette and the derailleur parts...
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Re: Chain cleaning/degreasing expectations? [lightning33] [ In reply to ]
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I have had great results using this method to clean my chains: https://moltenspeedwax.com/pages/clean-your-chain
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