Chain Checking

Mar 19, 21 8:22

Post #1 of 20 (1393 views)

How hard are you pushing your chain checker?

I use the PT CC2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzuSR-g6n20

If I do it like in their vid with just a light tap until contact essentially, my wife's chain reads 0.5. It's got ~500 miles on it.
If I push a bit harder, maybe like 3-4 pounds of force, it'll stretch to .75.
No increase in pushing on the tool will stretch it further.

Which is the correct reading?

My wife's chain has been ridden with grit on it on one occasion so it seems plausible that the grit ground down the chain components enough to need replacing, I suppose, but that's disheartening!

It seems incorrect to me that the chain checker tool is marketed as able to "read wear from .25% to 1.0%" because the tool itself has the following labeling text on it:

"New Chain: .25 - .5 .........Replace - .75 ........Park Tool"

Certainly new chains are not shipped with 0.25% or 0.5% "wear," but they DO tend to read those values on the tool. So it's not "wear" so much as play/stretch due to manufacturing tolerances, right?

My hope is that the Park Tool CC2 vid, linked above, is the correct way to measure, and that my chains don't need replacing just because I CAN stretch them if I push a bit harder to achieve the .75 on the CC2.

Educate me!

Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
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Last edited by: DrAlexHarrison: Mar 19, 21 8:24

Re: Chain Checking [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]

Mar 19, 21 8:52

Post #2 of 20 (1357 views)

I have found that chain checker to be especially good at creating a need to buy new chains.

I think this style is much more reliable

Re: Chain Checking [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]

Mar 19, 21 8:55

Post #3 of 20 (1349 views)

I have one like that. It's never failed a chain, even ones that were about to fall apart.

Re: Chain Checking [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]

Mar 19, 21 8:58

Post #4 of 20 (1347 views)

I don't know the answer to your question, but I recently checked two chains and one was extremely obvious that it needed changing and the other was not. If it's borderline, I'd just let it go for now, they wear slowly with proper maintenance.

Dimond Bikes Superfan

Re: Chain Checking [jaretj] [ In reply to ]

Mar 19, 21 9:09

Post #5 of 20 (1334 views)

hmm, i have definitely not had a problem with bad chains and the tool disguising that.

ultimately, it's probably best to just change your chain ever 1500-3000mi depending on how you ride, maintain, and lubricate it. for example, if you wax you are more likely to get a LOT more use out of a chain, cassette, and chainrings.

Re: Chain Checking [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]

Mar 19, 21 9:13

Post #6 of 20 (1331 views)

2500 to 3500 miles is what I do. As small as I am I don't put as much wear it as most others.

Now the mountain bike is something totally different. I normally roll the chain side-to-side in my fingers and make a subjective call when to change it. I normally get somewhere around 800 to 1500 miles.

Re: Chain Checking [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]

Mar 19, 21 9:59

Post #7 of 20 (1294 views)

Quote:

Educate me!

Sure. That model of park chain checker is faulty (all of them are faulty, not just yours), as its entire design is based on faulty thinking. It is worthless unless you want to throw away a lot of good chains. And the one pictured above by poster jkhayc is also worthless. The folks at park tool were asleep at the wheel when they made these chain checkers. If you want to know the exact details of why, there is a technical explanation about these (and other) faulty chain tools on this page.

Instead, you can use this tool:
https://www.bicyclehero.com/...4-chain-checker.html

Or, better, this shimano tool (the park tool above is essentially a copy of the shimano tool; and shimano had their tool designed correctly from the beginning):
https://www.bicyclehero.com/...-tool-y12152000.html

(they are avail at US merchants as well)

These are reliable, and I would follow their guidance. It will save you money as replacing (fyi, passably clean old chains can be recycled as scrap metal, we toss ours in the metal recycling) truly stretched chains will significantly reduce wear on cassettes and chainrings.

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
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Last edited by: DarkSpeedWorks: Mar 19, 21 10:52

Re: Chain Checking [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]

Mar 19, 21 10:20

Post #8 of 20 (1264 views)

here is a fairly in depth article:
https://cyclingtips.com/...and-checking-for-it/
Adam Kerin Zero Friction Cycling I think had something referenced in that article as well.

Re: Chain Checking [s5100e] [ In reply to ]

Mar 19, 21 11:19

Post #9 of 20 (1214 views)

Thank you! This has also explained at least part of my recent crash. New chain on worn chainrings. Wasn't getting chain skip until I put the new chain on. No better education than that which is spurred by injury.

Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
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Re: Chain Checking [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]

Mar 19, 21 11:23

Post #10 of 20 (1206 views)

Thank you, DSW! I'll be getting one of these, per the article linked by s5100e. Had never considered that checking back side of rollers to back side of rollers would matter. Clearly it does!

Diving into tech explanation now. Thank you very much for the education. Seriously appreciated.

Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
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Re: Chain Checking [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]

Mar 19, 21 11:28

Post #11 of 20 (1197 views)

jkhayc wrote:

I have found that chain checker to be especially good at creating a need to buy new chains.

Per s5100e's linked article, it sounds like other folks agree. Looks like the CC2 is garbage.

I also emailed my original post to an engineer former client of mine who noted that by his testing, one of the reasons the Park Tool CC-2 reports wear faster than other tools is that with a little pressure it becomes diagonal within the links.

Looks like the CC-3.4 might be slightly less likely to do so, but I think I'll end up going with either the CC-4, or Shimano's chain checker, or Pedro's, that goes backside to backside of the rollers, rather than backside to front side.

Might also get that KMC digital one in the article so I can plan ahead a bit for chain replacement or make more nuanced decisions. Appreciate your insight here!

Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
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📱 Check out our app → Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket.
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Re: Chain Checking [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]

Mar 19, 21 11:34

Post #12 of 20 (1188 views)

DarkSpeedWorks wrote:

Instead, you can use this tool:
https://www.bicyclehero.com/...4-chain-checker.html

touche, that's actually the one i meant to link to from park tool.

Quote:

These are reliable, and I would follow their guidance. It will save you money as replacing (fyi, passably clean old chains can be recycled as scrap metal, we toss ours in the metal recycling) truly stretched chains will significantly reduce wear on cassettes and chainrings.

typo

Re: Chain Checking [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]

Mar 19, 21 11:40

Post #13 of 20 (1177 views)

jkhayc wrote:

DarkSpeedWorks wrote:

Instead, you can use this tool:
https://www.bicyclehero.com/...4-chain-checker.html

touche, that's actually the one i meant to link to from park tool.

Quote:

These are reliable, and I would follow their guidance. It will save you money as replacing (fyi, passably clean old chains can be recycled as scrap metal, we toss ours in the metal recycling) truly stretched chains will significantly reduce wear on cassettes and chainrings.

typo

Thanks, but read the whole sentence:

... replacing truly stretched chains will significantly reduce wear on cassettes and chainrings.

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
--

Re: Chain Checking [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]

Mar 19, 21 11:48

Post #14 of 20 (1166 views)

gotcha, confusing way to write that sentence.

Re: Chain Checking [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]

Mar 19, 21 11:54

Post #15 of 20 (1154 views)

While I'm way down the rabbit hole in that tech article....

Does anyone know if there is difference between Silca branded NFS lube and just NFS lube?

http://nixfrixshun.com/...e-bicycle-chainlube/

https://www.biketiresdirect.com/...a-nfs-pro-chain-lube

PS. I ordered the Park Tool CC-4. Thank you.

Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
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📱 Check out our app → Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket.
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Last edited by: DrAlexHarrison: Mar 19, 21 11:55

Re: Chain Checking [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]

Mar 19, 21 11:59

Post #16 of 20 (1140 views)

My guess is that they are similar, but that is just a guess. I think you should ask Josh at Silca, I am sure he will give you the full scoop ...

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
--

Re: Chain Checking [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]

Mar 19, 21 12:05

Post #17 of 20 (1131 views)

From a testing standpoint of “ I have used both” and just based on how they dispense and “feel” if you rub some between your fingers they seem very similar. Both have the same smell upon application as well in my experience.

I use the regular NFS, love it.

Re: Chain Checking [talking head] [ In reply to ]

Mar 19, 21 12:45

Post #18 of 20 (1095 views)

talking head wrote:

From a testing standpoint of “ I have used both” and just based on how they dispense and “feel” if you rub some between your fingers they seem very similar. Both have the same smell upon application as well in my experience.

I use the regular NFS, love it.

Well this is interesting. Appears to beat NFS... which I have loved from the moment I tried it.

I'm emailing Josh @ Silca. I'll report back re: Slica NFS vs. NFS. And if there are good answers to the 15 other questions asked, I'll report that too. (NFS vs. Synergetic vs. Super Secret)

Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
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📱 Check out our app → Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket.
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Re: Chain Checking [DrAlexHarrison] [ In reply to ]

Mar 19, 21 12:51

Post #19 of 20 (1083 views)

I should add lowest friction is not at the top of my personal list for a lube.

I’m much more interested in performance in conditions that I most often ride, how long it tends to last in those conditions, and price.

Absolute fastest testing in lab conditions doesn’t really matter that much to me. But that’s me....certainly everyone’s gonna be different.

Re: Chain Checking [talking head] [ In reply to ]

Mar 19, 21 13:20

Post #20 of 20 (1056 views)

talking head wrote:

I should add lowest friction is not at the top of my personal list for a lube.

I’m much more interested in performance in conditions that I most often ride, how long it tends to last in those conditions, and price.

Absolute fastest testing in lab conditions doesn’t really matter that much to me. But that’s me....certainly everyone’s gonna be different.

This article was informative on all of that as it compared a bit of ZeroFrictionCycling's work with older FrictionFacts work, and they are a useful pairing of info.

It also answered the NFS vs. Silca NFS question. They are different. Probably undiscernibly so. The difference hasn't been specifically tested. NFS is great for efficiency and wear rates. Silca NFS probably is too.

Dr. Alex Harrison | Founder & CEO | Sport Physiology & Performance PhD
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
📱 Check out our app → Saturday: Pro Fuel & Hydration, a performance nutrition coach in your pocket.
Join us on YouTube → Saturday Morning | Ride & Run Faster and our growing Saturday User Hub

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