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Carbon (TrekTT,ColnagoC45, rocketwing or none of the above?
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Hello,

Sorry if you have seen this before, but I posted it on bicyclesports forum and was looking for a few more answers than I got there. I have a Litespeed (which fits very well, no complaint there), but when riding for distance on chipseal asphalt, the road buzz causes some serious back problems. I had a rather serious back injury about 12 years ago (no fracture, but I herniated a disc and had visible cord compression. The long term effect regarding cycling (after the disc dessicated and shrank) is that my mid back (lower thoracic spine) is rather sensitive to road vibration when I am on my aerobars. I don't seem to have to problem riding my roadbike or riding the LS (saber 2000 model) when on the cowhorns, but on races that are on chipseal (which a lot of roads here in the deep south seem to be), the constant chatter just about kills me after 10 miles or so. My question is, would one of the carbon bikes listed above (kestrel would be fine too, I was just considering moving to 700c wheels so that all my bike wheels would be interchangeable) help to deaden the vibration (have heard at least one person say that the Trek bike beat him to death) or would I be better off with a beam bike (which for most seem to be a love 'em or hate'em kind of thing)?



Just to include all the specifics, I am 6'1" and about 188 lbs. The litespeed has a softride carbon fork with alloy steerer and I race on a HED deep rear/CX front combo with tubulars. stem is a profile with syntace bar setup.

Thanks in Advance,



Lance Faler



_________________________________________________
That is just one more group of people that should be thrown screaming from a helicopter- George Carlin
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Re: Carbon (TrekTT,ColnagoC45, rocketwing or none of the above? [Dr. Doom] [ In reply to ]
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dr. doom,
I have been on softrides for 9 years now for my tt/tri bike. There have been numerous times when I've hit a bumpy stretch and it seems like everyone else who did not have beam bikes, including carbon was suddenly working harder to maintain speed. I have never gotten off my softride feeling beat up after a bike. My softride fit me like a glove. The softrides are aero, fast, very adjustable, mine seem to need wrenching a bit more often than my road bikes, a bit heavy but damn comfy. My 22.5lb softride hasn't stopped me from turning in top bike splits on hilly or flat courses either. Right now I'm waiting on a custom TT frame that is not a softride. I have a brand new softride TT7 but I am going to try the traditional frame b/c the softride's do require more work when travelling with the bike. I will be honest and say I am a bit nervous about the new frame and how it feels. My only complaint about the softrides, is the extra wrenching when travelling, well maybe the extra 2-3lbs but that is a minor complaint at best.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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Re: Carbon (TrekTT,ColnagoC45, rocketwing or none of the above? [Dr. Doom] [ In reply to ]
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I've owned both a Rocketwing and Trek TT. Through my experience I would say to go with the Trek. You will, however, get a much smoother ride on a Rocketwing, but it isn't worth the headaches.

I am 6'1" and weigh (today anyway) approx. 193 lbs. The beam on my Rocketwing has failed (i.e., broken) not once, not even twice, but three times. I have also broken a bolt (also in the beam) more times than I can count.

Though the idea of the Rocketwing is nice, the durability/design have fallen far short. Traveling w/the Rocketwing was a pain. Unfortunately, packing my TrekTT was just as bad.

Though the TT frame won't completely dampen a chipseal ride, it won't fall apart on you either.

FYI: I currently ride the large TT frame.

-gc
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Re: Carbon (TrekTT,ColnagoC45, rocketwing or none of the above? [Dr. Doom] [ In reply to ]
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I don't have any first hand experience with one, but you may want to also check out a TitanFlex. It seems that these are a nice compromise between a Softride and a traditional frame. You still get a suspension effect, but the bean mechanism is less complex. These bikes are less popular than the Softrides, but I think that's more a function of marketing than anything else. I've spoken with a couple people who really love their Titans.

If you stick with a traditional frame, remember that any material can be made stiff and harsh to ride. I'd make sure to take advantage of the cheap(er) purchases that can make your ride more confortable. Things like a good carbon fiber seatpost, gel handlebar wrap, cushy aerobar pads, a nice saddle, fatter tires, and forgiving wheels can go a long way to help dampen the vibration. Something about me just does not like Spinergy, but their Xaero wheels sure are comfy.
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Re: Carbon (TrekTT,ColnagoC45, rocketwing or none of the above? [Dr. Doom] [ In reply to ]
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aside from the other suggestions have you given any thought to trying out a suspension seatpost from the MTB world for use on chipseal races?

$150 investment, might be worth a try

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"on your Left"
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Re: Carbon (TrekTT,ColnagoC45, rocketwing or none of the above? [Dr. Doom] [ In reply to ]
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Hi,

I have the new Trek ttt and while it is a great bike overall you shouldn't await some magic about killing road vibration when riding on bad roads. I also have a Cannondale Multisport 2000 si and as far as riding on bad roads both bikes are similar concerning reacting to road vibration.

regards,

Frank

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time like tears in rain.
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Re: Carbon (TrekTT,ColnagoC45, rocketwing or none of the above? [Pooks] [ In reply to ]
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Pooks said, "Something about me just does not like Spinergy, but their Xaero wheels sure are comfy. "


I concur with the Spinergy comment. Until I had my accident last week, I had a 2003 Litespeed Saber with the carbon seatstays. I also had an Alien seatpost, Reynolds Ouzo Aero forks, Profile Carbon X integrated bars, and a new Aspide triathlon saddle. So I had done about as much as possible in terms of comfort with the bicycle. BUT the biggest difference came with the wheel and tire combo that I had for training. I had the 2003 Xaero-lite wheels and Michelin Pro Race 23 tire. Once this spring I put my wife's more standard wheels (Velocity/Ultegra/32spoke/Gonti GP3000) on the bike for a comparison. The difference between the two sets of wheels on back-to-back 60 mile rides was incredible. So much so that I'm ordering a set of Xaero lites for my wife. They are a little pricey for training wheels at about $600-700, but I think they are more than worth it. They are also fairly bomb-proof. I haven't had to true them at all, at least before last weeks accident when the front took a direct impact. Even then, it is only slightly out of true. Contrast that with the powertap wheel on the back which needs complete rebuilding.

Bottom line, I think that, outside of beam type bikes, that comfort differences in frames and parts are fairly insignificant compared to the differences between wheels. Try a good set of comfortable wheels and tires on your current bike before you give it up. In addition to the Xaero-lite recommendation, I also feel that the Michelins are the most comfortable clincher tire I've ever ridden. And the are some of the fastest to boot.
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Re: Carbon (TrekTT,ColnagoC45, rocketwing or none of the above? [Triathlete] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting. I have heard from a few other people who had problems with the beams. Does anyone know is this was a manufacturing problem or if the things are just incapable of handling larger riders? Also, did you have the aluminum or carbon beam?

Also, thanks to all the other people who replied with suggestions. I really like the saddle pad combo I have now, but I may try a carbon seatpost and see if that helps at all.

Sincerely

Lance Faler



_________________________________________________
That is just one more group of people that should be thrown screaming from a helicopter- George Carlin
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Re: Carbon (TrekTT,ColnagoC45, rocketwing or none of the above? [Dr. Doom] [ In reply to ]
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I am not sure about the reasons for gc's broken beams, but I know that he did break a bolt last year because he was hammering far too hard for the bike to handle while trying to keep up with me. :)
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Re: Carbon (TrekTT,ColnagoC45, rocketwing or none of the above? [Dr. Doom] [ In reply to ]
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I agree wheels have play a big role, and would try the suggestions above. I have a set of Velomax orions for road racing wheels and double as my training wheels on my tri bike and they are very soothing compared to the mavic bombproofs and even zipp 404s. That said, my Calfee carbon tri bike is a LOT smoother than my steel road bike when compared with the same wheels. I have a steel road bike and a calfee luna tri. Not only is it more comfortable, the calfee is also much lighter, much more responsive, and very stiff in out of the saddle climbs. If you're in the market for a Colnago or Trek (also $$$$) you might find Calfee a better option given their ability to set you up with a custom frame. I don't work for Calfee - I'm just a big fan of the bikes.

For reference, I'm 6'2", 170-175.
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Re: Carbon (TrekTT,ColnagoC45, rocketwing or none of the above? [Dr. Doom] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Interesting. I have heard from a few other people who had problems with the beams. Does anyone know is this was a manufacturing problem or if the things are just incapable of handling larger riders? Also, did you have the aluminum or carbon beam?


The aluminum (original design) beam broke twice so Softride sent me a completely new frame (with a carbon beam) and it (i.e., the beam) didn't make it through an entire season.

One of the bolts on the beam (in reference to Terry's post) was always breaking. I had a friggin jar of bolts in my garage (that I also took with me to races) because I never knew when the bolt was going to pop off (which happened the first time) the day before Timberman (MN).

I THINK I might still have pictures of the destruction from the last breakage (a groove so deep a dog clould sleep in it)... I'll try to dig them up if you're interested.

-gc
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Re: Carbon (TrekTT,ColnagoC45, rocketwing or none of the above? [Triathlete] [ In reply to ]
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Was the failure such that it ever caused you to crash or was it something that was just a pain in the butt to have happen (ie, lost race/down time to get repaired, etc). I am(was) very interested in the RW (especially the SE version) but I also don't want to sink a chunk of change into something that might break under me (188 lbs).

I looked at the Titanflex, but after reading Dan's review, I think it might not fit me that well.

Lance



_________________________________________________
That is just one more group of people that should be thrown screaming from a helicopter- George Carlin
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Re: Carbon (TrekTT,ColnagoC45, rocketwing or none of the above? [Dr. Doom] [ In reply to ]
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I think Softrides website state that the new rocket carbon beams are good to 200 lbs. I have had mine for a year and have not had any problems with bolts or the beam. I have weighed as much as 200 lbs and as low as 182 with no problems.

ShaRRky
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Re: Carbon (TrekTT,ColnagoC45, rocketwing or none of the above? [Dr. Doom] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Was the failure such that it ever caused you to crash or was it something that was just a pain in the butt to have happen (ie, lost race/down time to get repaired, etc). I am(was) very interested in the RW (especially the SE version) but I also don't want to sink a chunk of change into something that might break under me (188 lbs).


All three failures happened during the winter months while spinning indoors on a trainer. In the first two cases the glue holding the aluminum to the sheath failed. What I got was a quick lowering of the seat (about 60 seconds). Had I stayed in the saddle I would have eventually been sawed in half by the wheel. :-o

In failure number 3, the sheath cracked (on both sides) and I noticed an immediate drop in seat height (along the lines of 10-15 sec.). I spoke w/Softride SEVERAL times and they assured me the problem had nothing to do with the trainer. Additionally, each time the beam failed I weighed less than 200 lbs.

In each case there was downtime... Sometimes it was brief (i.e., 1-2 weeks) other times it took longer. Softride was always very helpful (i.e., I never paid for replacements) and (when I was upgraded to the new frame style w/carbon) I DID get a completely new frame and fork. Unfortunately, for the money spent, the problems and downtime were certainly not worth it.

Let me know if you have any questions, comments or suggestions.

-gc
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Softride for sale [ In reply to ]
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BTW: I've got a softride TT7 (with mostly everything new) for sale... Let me know if you're interested...

-gc
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Re: Carbon (TrekTT,ColnagoC45, rocketwing or none of the above? [Dr. Doom] [ In reply to ]
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According to a friend of mine who builds bikes for a living, significant numbers of them are SR's, it's the Rocket Beams that are the problem. The traditional beam that is bolted on top of the frame are well designed and very durable. He would not build a Rocket for heavier folk because of the failure potential. If you go with the non-Rocket frames you pay a price in wieght but get the durability. I owned a 5200 prior to my R1 I's have to say there was clear increase in comfort and handeling. I could not tell any difference in climbing ability, the stiff frame may have compensated some for the extra weight.
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Re: Carbon (TrekTT,ColnagoC45, rocketwing or none of the above? [Dr. Doom] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Doc,

Since the time of "slowman" Dan's review, TitanFlex started manufacturing an XL size bike for taller riders. I think it has a 102 cm +/- wheel base. I have a Titanflex with a "mocha" beam. I'm 5'10, 178 lbs, down from 203 lbs. I've riden mine so much that I've lost 25 lbs in the 3 months I've owned it. They give you a selection of 4 different titanium beam stiffnesses that give you a weight range up to 265 lbs. They will even exchange one beam for another if you decide the current beam you're riding is either too stiff or soft. The beam has a 100 year warranty. All you do is pay for shipping when trading for another beam.

They offer a polished aluminum frame if you like the finish on the softride SE. They also offer a "mirror" two-stage powder coat finish that gives it a polished look.

I know all this because I researched bikes for a year and a half. I liked the beam bike concept and the "simpler" design of the TitanFlex. It's lighter, less expensive, less complex, has a selection of 4 bomb-proof beams, and longer warranty than a softride rocket TT. They'll give you any color you ask for. It's also one of the most aerodynamic bikes available. And Tom Piszkin, the designer and owner of TitanFlex, is always more than willing to answer any questions. As you can probably tell, I love my bike.

Now, after having said all that... the Colnago C45 TT is a sweet looking machine! It's pricey, but on a "Dr.'s" salary, money shouldn't be an issue. Wink

Good luck with your search,


E-Z

--It ain't a good idea to swim near MY bubbles! Tongue
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Re: Carbon (TrekTT,ColnagoC45, rocketwing or none of the above? [Dr. Doom] [ In reply to ]
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Lance,

In terms of comfort for your back, the suspension bikes cannot be beat. I have a rocket tt7 and it is very comy and very fast. That said, I also had 1 beam failure, where the glue that holds the carbon beam to the aluminum sleeve failed. Softride sent me a new beam right away.

I think that the majority of rocket beam failures are due to improper beam installation. If you check the softride site, there is a very specific procedure for installing all the hardware and crap that goes along with the beam. Most builders, even good ones, just throw the bike together as they always have done. If done properly, I suspect that the beam will last ok.

That said, there is also a strong arguement in favor of having confidence in your equipment. If you are worried about the beam, it can always be in the back of your mind....

If I had it to do again, I would probably go with either the softride classic or a more conventional bike.

Later,
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Re: Carbon (TrekTT,ColnagoC45, rocketwing or none of the above? [Ironstevie] [ In reply to ]
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My old roommate was 6' 1" and road a Kestrel KM-40. If the bike fits is has a great ride, since it doesn't have a downtube and is made of carbon. I currently ride one and I am pretty comfortable on 100 milers.
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Re: Carbon (TrekTT,ColnagoC45, rocketwing or none of the above? [TRI] [ In reply to ]
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I hope your KM40 has a downtube, most of them do. They don't have seattubes. ;-)
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