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Re: Canyon Speedmax Disc [triprem] [ In reply to ]
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triprem wrote:
12W?? How did you come with that number? I’ve downloaded that test, there’s 4.2W difference vs P5?

What I'm wondering is Canyon admitting the old bike was a dog, or the new one is blindingly faster than the competition?
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Re: Canyon Speedmax Disc [dunno] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, i guess there’s different version of truth - depending where you put your ear . I am trying to understand why many believe Cervelo or Spec are are so much superior to other brands. Not specifically to Canyon, just in general.
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Re: Canyon Speedmax Disc [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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I liked the bladder too but when looking at the video i found the construction a bit annoying . Usually I would freeze my bottle before the race, but with this system you need to pass through the top cover which couldn't be done because the bladder is frozen or you would need to leave my bike with the top cover off overnight - not very an ideal setup- and I actually dont think the bladders might not pass through the opening if frozen.
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Re: Canyon Speedmax Disc [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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I was all in on the bike till I saw the price!

Also the reach seems short.

At this price as other have said it just does not seem like a great value anymore.

I can get a P5D with easier front end adj and better local support.

2022: Galveston and Kona
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Re: Canyon Speedmax Disc [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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TheStroBro wrote:
However, today, there are no cost savings.

I disagree in general.

The Aeroad CFR Disc Red AXS (e.g. a completely loaded aero road bike) is $9000 USD.

The Trek Madone SLR 9 with Red AXS is $12,500.

Tarmac SL7 with Red is $12,300.

Same with MTB. A Lux CF SLX 9 LTD, an absolute high-end XC bike is $7500. S-Works Epic is $11,500.

The price differentials carry all the way down to entry-level.

I agree that the $12K high end on this bike is about the same as the high end Cervelo, Specialized bikes.
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Re: Canyon Speedmax Disc [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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desert dude wrote:
cyclenutnz wrote:
GreenPlease wrote:
Interesting. Looks like I'm still not giving up much (if anything?) with my Speed Concept or my optimized Shiv (extrapolating from the Felt IA and and Cervelo P5-3 data)

You're not giving anything up with the SC. This is why I am finding new bike releases so uninspiring. My P5 I've had since 2012 hasn't been beaten for aero, fits as wide tyres as I want and is easier to work on than any of the new bikes. What would make me want to change is the Plasma6 geo (for XL) with P5 design.
And my Gen2 S5 unsurpassed as well, so I'm getting that repainted because road bikes are disappointing me too.
Given my enthusiasm for bikes these feel like dismal times (I live somewhere that Covid is barely an issue so this year hasn't been all that dismal aside from boring bikes).

I have bike only testing on the old Speedmax. It's 2-4w slower than the premier tactical getting slower as the yaw angle increases, which means this new Plasma is at most 4w faster than a P5-6 iirc all the numbers from the aerobike shoot out.

Makes me feel good about the P3X I bought to replace the scott Plasma premium 3 that I mod'd the F out of to make it +/- 2w faster/slower than the premier depending on the yaw angle.

Also I know someone who may be selling a P4. What size are you?

Side note re:p3x ..... intriguing bike and clearly tests fast. Would you reccomend this bus to a sprint triathlete who prob doesn’t need to uhaul Everything who lives in flat land? Or the standard p5?
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Re: Canyon Speedmax Disc [trail] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, I think we were just referencing the tri bikes. Aeroad is a smoking deal.

Jim Manton / ERO Sports

Aero Tidbits posted on Instagram & Facebook
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Re: Canyon Speedmax Disc [trail] [ In reply to ]
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Well your first problem is you like SRAM ;P

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: Canyon Speedmax Disc [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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TheStroBro wrote:
Well your first problem is you like SRAM ;P

I adore SRAM!
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Re: Canyon Speedmax Disc [Toothengineer] [ In reply to ]
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And...when the P6 comes out...it's going to make this one seem even doggier. Cervelo will study this, incorporate the feedback pros & cons of the competition & then that will be the next "schizmo" everyone will want.
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Re: Canyon Speedmax Disc [ In reply to ]
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I like the frame design of "lower end" CF model much more then previous. Thinking about CF 7 (which is around 3699 EUR, which has quite OK wheels I think, new frame, and after that replacing the 105 with some Di2 or SRAM electronic shifting and then adding powermeter as well.

I think that would be the best way budget wise getting the Speedmax with electronic shifting ... Not sure if the H30 base bar is ok with adding electronic shifting aftewards since it has hydraulic brakes ... what do you think?
Last edited by: jirtob: Nov 19, 20 1:12
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Re: Canyon Speedmax Disc [jirtob] [ In reply to ]
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Here is the thing though for less than 2500 euros you can get a p-series: https://www.sigmasports.com/...thlon-Bike-2020/O43R. Add the wheels you actually want and you will have a better bike than the CF7 with more money left over to upgrade. The Ultegra/hydraulic equipped p-series is about 800 euros more, which given you don't want the wheels or groupset, is a harder sell in this scenario, but remains a better prospect than the CF 7.

Overall by pricing the Speedmax so it is equivalent to the other main stream offerings it has killed the value prospect unless they are equally willing to offer big discounts on year end models. When you can get an all singing all dancing PX-series for about 8000 euros (https://www.sigmasports.com/...thlon-Bike-2020/ODUT) why would buy a SF SLX?
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Re: Canyon Speedmax Disc [Toothengineer] [ In reply to ]
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Not replying in particular...

When I first saw the bike I was like "Wow, amazing!" Now I'm kinda "Meh...", especially with the price. Nothing really ground breaking, it just incorporates technologies and features that have been around for years in a really nice, clean package

I don't like that you cant mount a BTA round bottle cage (unless there are brackets for the beam they haven't shown us yet, and then there's no real place for a computer. How hard would it have been to put a couple bottle cage bosses on that beam?) I will always run a BTA, even with an internal bladder, as that's just how I roll. I like to grab a bottle at aid stations, slam it in the BTA as quickly as possible and get the hell away from the aid station carnage safely. The number of crashes I've seen at aid stations from volunteers and competitors dropping bottles and swerving all over the road.... No time to faff with squirting fluids into a bladder for me.

The cockpit seems to have been designed for people who run super narrow arm pads and minimal angled bars (Frodeno...). Yes it is a super bike, and that may be a faster aero setup, but many, many amateurs and pros prefer BTAs.

Must say it does look super clean tho.
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Re: Canyon Speedmax Disc [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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TheStroBro wrote:
Shambolic wrote:
Jim@EROsports wrote:
Perhaps a little harsh, but honestly what's the differentiator now? I'm hard-pressed to find one from their Tri bike offerings. Great bikes, to be sure, but nothing more than anyone else.


Well I'll say that if I was in the market for a more mainstream tri bike and being someone who can afford whatever they want, that this would be it. The refinement of things like the hose routing for the bladder, bento and tools amongst other things is awesome and isn't what I find hideously ugly IMO to the Scott without the bladder hose refinement. I see it as a very innovative packed bike with all the little finishing touches I find appealing and very few other bikes would come close to comparing. I understand most people could not afford or justify this bike but for someone in my position it ticks all the boxes and would be top of the list if I could get a decent fit. I am not sure what the world demand will be but I am sure there will be many out on course.

I am somewhat surprised in what seems a jump in bike prices in recent times but it is the same with so many things boats, caravans, outboard motors, cars... in Australia during this covid period.


At the end of the day if you don't know how to build a bike you're taking it to a local mechanic, if things break it's hard to get Canyon specific parts (at least in the US unless things have changed during the pandemic). They hate talking to bike shop mechanics and only want to talk with bike owners. And most bike owners (like myself) are out of their depth if something is broken.

That makes it a hard "NO" for me then. Something on a bike will always break or need adjustment.
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Re: Canyon Speedmax Disc [IamSpartacus] [ In reply to ]
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IamSpartacus wrote:
desert dude wrote:
cyclenutnz wrote:
GreenPlease wrote:
Interesting. Looks like I'm still not giving up much (if anything?) with my Speed Concept or my optimized Shiv (extrapolating from the Felt IA and and Cervelo P5-3 data)

You're not giving anything up with the SC. This is why I am finding new bike releases so uninspiring. My P5 I've had since 2012 hasn't been beaten for aero, fits as wide tyres as I want and is easier to work on than any of the new bikes. What would make me want to change is the Plasma6 geo (for XL) with P5 design.
And my Gen2 S5 unsurpassed as well, so I'm getting that repainted because road bikes are disappointing me too.
Given my enthusiasm for bikes these feel like dismal times (I live somewhere that Covid is barely an issue so this year hasn't been all that dismal aside from boring bikes).

I have bike only testing on the old Speedmax. It's 2-4w slower than the premier tactical getting slower as the yaw angle increases, which means this new Plasma is at most 4w faster than a P5-6 iirc all the numbers from the aerobike shoot out.

Makes me feel good about the P3X I bought to replace the scott Plasma premium 3 that I mod'd the F out of to make it +/- 2w faster/slower than the premier depending on the yaw angle.

Also I know someone who may be selling a P4. What size are you?

Side note re:p3x ..... intriguing bike and clearly tests fast. Would you reccomend this bus to a sprint triathlete who prob doesn’t need to uhaul Everything who lives in flat land? Or the standard p5?

Not addressed to me, but if you don’t need to haul a ton of stuff on your bike, I’d have a look at the new Orbea. After all of these releases, that’s been the best overall one from my POV.
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Re: Canyon Speedmax Disc [blueapplepaste] [ In reply to ]
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blueapplepaste wrote:
IamSpartacus wrote:
desert dude wrote:
cyclenutnz wrote:
GreenPlease wrote:

Interesting. Looks like I'm still not giving up much (if anything?) with my Speed Concept or my optimized Shiv (extrapolating from the Felt IA and and Cervelo P5-3 data)


You're not giving anything up with the SC. This is why I am finding new bike releases so uninspiring. My P5 I've had since 2012 hasn't been beaten for aero, fits as wide tyres as I want and is easier to work on than any of the new bikes. What would make me want to change is the Plasma6 geo (for XL) with P5 design.
And my Gen2 S5 unsurpassed as well, so I'm getting that repainted because road bikes are disappointing me too.
Given my enthusiasm for bikes these feel like dismal times (I live somewhere that Covid is barely an issue so this year hasn't been all that dismal aside from boring bikes).


I have bike only testing on the old Speedmax. It's 2-4w slower than the premier tactical getting slower as the yaw angle increases, which means this new Plasma is at most 4w faster than a P5-6 iirc all the numbers from the aerobike shoot out.

Makes me feel good about the P3X I bought to replace the scott Plasma premium 3 that I mod'd the F out of to make it +/- 2w faster/slower than the premier depending on the yaw angle.

Also I know someone who may be selling a P4. What size are you?


Side note re:p3x ..... intriguing bike and clearly tests fast. Would you reccomend this bus to a sprint triathlete who prob doesn’t need to uhaul Everything who lives in flat land? Or the standard p5?


Not addressed to me, but if you don’t need to haul a ton of stuff on your bike, I’d have a look at the new Orbea. After all of these releases, that’s been the best overall one from my POV.

I am falling more in love with the Argon 18 119+ tri disc...internal flat kit storage instead of the exterior one on the Orbea, integrated bento with stem and deeper than most (into frame) and slick 51 speedshop cockpit. Really looked into integration of the disc brakes - this might be the best of them all out there!

DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!
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Re: Canyon Speedmax Disc [dfru] [ In reply to ]
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dfru wrote:
I am falling more in love with the Argon 18 119+ tri disc...internal flat kit storage instead of the exterior one on the Orbea, integrated bento with stem and deeper than most (into frame) and slick 51 speedshop cockpit. Really looked into integration of the disc brakes - this might be the best of them all out there!

I'm with you on this one.

Both the canyo and argon ticks the boxes of my list currently...

But will need to see what configuration and pricing argon is releasing with. Information has been coming out in drips and drabs from them...
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Re: Canyon Speedmax Disc [TX83] [ In reply to ]
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TX83 wrote:
Not sure I follow what others are saying about the massive price increase.

Last year's CF SLX UltegraDi2 is $7500 and the new one is $8000 and comes with a power meter. Basically $0 increase subtracting the cost of the PM.

Last year's CF SLX Dura-Ace Di2 is $10500 (on sale now for 9K) and this years (called the CFR) is $12k with a power meter so not a big increase (maybe 500-1000 after cost of PM?).

And for the entry level version (non-SLX) they seem to have increased $500.


Agree...

It has PM and zipp nsw 858...
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Re: Canyon Speedmax Disc [Rocky M] [ In reply to ]
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Rocky M wrote:
And...when the P6 comes out....

I wouldn't anticipate that for 3-4 years.
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Re: Canyon Speedmax Disc [trail] [ In reply to ]
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it seems this bike hasnt made much of a splash here.

80/20 Endurance Ambassador
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Re: Canyon Speedmax Disc [scott8888] [ In reply to ]
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scott8888 wrote:
Here is the thing though for less than 2500 euros you can get a p-series: https://www.sigmasports.com/...thlon-Bike-2020/O43R. Add the wheels you actually want and you will have a better bike than the CF7 with more money left over to upgrade. The Ultegra/hydraulic equipped p-series is about 800 euros more, which given you don't want the wheels or groupset, is a harder sell in this scenario, but remains a better prospect than the CF 7.

Agree this deal with Cervelo P series looks super value ... It's basically on the price we have just P-series frame in Czechia. Since I'm a lot into the design etc. I like the Speedmax better though ... but as I said agree that the price/value with this Cervelo and potential to upgrade with specific budget looks great.
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Re: Canyon Speedmax Disc [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
Rocky M wrote:
And...when the P6 comes out....


I wouldn't anticipate that for 3-4 years.

.....if not longer due to the pandemic affecting brands inventories. Movie development has slipped 12 months - expect many industries to do the same.
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Re: Canyon Speedmax Disc [trail] [ In reply to ]
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Pricing seems to vary depending on where you are.

In Europe:

Speedmax CFR DISC Di2 / Dura-Ace Di2 R9150, DT Swiss ARC 1100 Dicut - 9.999€

Cervelo P5 Disc / DuraAce Di2 R9150 / DT Swiss ARC 1100 - 9.699€

I'm sure Canyon will sell plenty bikes but yeah... the price difference is gone and so is my putative interest. And I could get an Orbea or a Cervelo serviced/warrantied 10 or 2 minutes away from my house respectively. Hard pass.
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Re: Canyon Speedmax Disc [UK Gearmuncher] [ In reply to ]
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Replying to the thread in general.

On the old rim brake SLX model I had a fighting chance of fitting the bike, just scraping into the range on the Medium with the pads slammed. Assuming my coordinates are the right position for me (575/510 pad y/x) then I don't care if the bike saves 9w or 29w if I have to sit up to ride the thing.

Looking at the geo charts for both the new CFR and CF SLX disc brake models, I need size Small for pad stack. Which gives me a maximum pad reach of 440mm. Even allowing for the measurement taken to the back of the pad, if my position was 510mm to centre of a "traditional" pad and I allow an extra 40-50mm, I'm coming up short.

The new bikes weren't made for me :-(. Admittedly I am an Alien in Dan's terminology, but I don't think I'm alone. On the old bikes they had different geometries between the top tier (long/low) and the lower tier (short/tall). Seems the full product range is a much taller bike. You can tell just looking at the head tube area.

Be interested to know what the fitters make of the new geometry. I'd have thought they would prefer a shorter frame giving the option to increase stack by adding pad risers. You can add stack, but you can't chop it off when it starts too high.

Sigh.

Cheers, Rich.
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Re: Canyon Speedmax Disc [damon.lebeouf] [ In reply to ]
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damon.lebeouf wrote:
it seems this bike hasnt made much of a splash here.

No real innovation, disappointing price point, geo that might not accommodate some, “blah” paint scheme.
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