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Canoeing/kayaking vs swimming
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Hi All
Are there any athletes here that also does canoeing or kayaking. I am looking for advice on comparative effort or calories burnt between swimming and rowing/paddling.
I want to do a row/ride/run event to Olympic standard, replacing the swimming leg with kayaking. And for my own sake I would like to give it some credibility. Would be doing it on my own, just because I challenged myself.
(I started training/exercising about six months ago. Currently aged 58. I have a kayak, bicycle and running shoes. That's why!)
Your advice shall be appreciated.
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Re: Canoeing/kayaking vs swimming [Jan Marais] [ In reply to ]
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I find kayaking a greater effort, but maybe that's because I've been swimming for twice as long.

Stop thinking about calories of effort and just enjoy another sport.
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Re: Canoeing/kayaking vs swimming [Jan Marais] [ In reply to ]
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my canoe racing has all been whitewater slalom, which is more like a sprint.. so no direct experience.

this looks like a pretty good overview,
https://files.meetup.com/...d_while_kayaking.pdf
references,
http://prevention.sph.sc.edu/...ments_compendium.pdf

looks like canoe/kayak would be comparable to swimming in terms of METs, at moderate and vigorous effort levels.
So just use an equivalent time, and paddle hard ;-)
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Re: Canoeing/kayaking vs swimming [Jan Marais] [ In reply to ]
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Jan Marais wrote:
Hi All
Are there any athletes here that also does canoeing or kayaking. I am looking for advice on comparative effort or calories burnt between swimming and rowing/paddling.
I want to do a row/ride/run event to Olympic standard, replacing the swimming leg with kayaking. And for my own sake I would like to give it some credibility. Would be doing it on my own, just because I challenged myself.
(I started training/exercising about six months ago. Currently aged 58. I have a kayak, bicycle and running shoes. That's why!)
Your advice shall be appreciated.

My squad coach Fenella Ng did both swimming and rowing at Olympic level - not canoeing / kayaking though.
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Re: Canoeing/kayaking vs swimming [Jan Marais] [ In reply to ]
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The K1 5000m WR is around 18 minutes; if you own a recreational kayak, probably a 3000m is a reasonable substitute for a 1500m swim leg
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Re: Canoeing/kayaking vs swimming [NordicSkier] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for your response!

I do enjoy the additional sport! Just want to get a realistic replacement distance. It really isn't all that important, I know, but I've set myself this goal, and I don't like backing out. It is something to work towards.
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Re: Canoeing/kayaking vs swimming [doug in co] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the advice. I also stumbled across the Compendium of Physical Activity, and it seems like time for time the two are pretty much equal. I now just have to find out how far one would swim and how far one would kayak in an hour with comparable (moderate) effort.
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Re: Canoeing/kayaking vs swimming [jollyroger88] [ In reply to ]
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jollyroger88 wrote:
The K1 5000m WR is around 18 minutes; if you own a recreational kayak, probably a 3000m is a reasonable substitute for a 1500m swim leg


Thanks! This might just lead me onto something.

With a 14:31:02 WR time for a 1500 m swim, and assuming both world record holders to be top performing athletes, I get 16,67 km/hr K1 speed and 6,2 km/hr swimming speed, giving me a distance ratio of about 2.7:1. So the 1500 m swim will compare to a 4050 m K1 distance. I think 4 km would do it for me.

Would you guys agree with my reasoning?
Last edited by: Jan Marais: Jul 8, 20 4:24
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Re: Canoeing/kayaking vs swimming [Jan Marais] [ In reply to ]
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Jan Marais wrote:
jollyroger88 wrote:
The K1 5000m WR is around 18 minutes; if you own a recreational kayak, probably a 3000m is a reasonable substitute for a 1500m swim leg


Thanks! This might just lead me onto something.
With a 14:31:02 WR time for a 1500 m swim, and assuming both world record holders to be top performing athletes, I get 16,67 km/hr K1 speed and 6,2 km/hr swimming speed, giving me a distance ratio of about 2.7:1. So the 1500 m swim will compare to a 4050 m K1 distance. I think 4 km would do it for me.
Would you guys agree with my reasoning?

I've been doing these calculations for many yrs, so I'll agree with your reasoning 100%. My only further comment would be that, if you were actually putting on a tri with kayak subbing for the swim, I'd make the kayak 8 km so that your fastest kayak times will be close to your fastest to your fastest 10K times. This would make it more of an even race and, since anyone can learn to kayak pretty well as an adult, you wouldn't have people saying the swim is too long b/c they did not learn to swim until adulthood, which is what you get in regular SBR tri. :)


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Canoeing/kayaking vs swimming [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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I've been doing these calculations for many yrs, so I'll agree with your reasoning 100%. My only further comment would be that, if you were actually putting on a tri with kayak subbing for the swim, I'd make the kayak 8 km so that your fastest kayak times will be close to your fastest to your fastest 10K times. This would make it more of an even race and, since anyone can learn to kayak pretty well as an adult, you wouldn't have people saying the swim is too long b/c they did not learn to swim until adulthood, which is what you get in regular SBR tri. :)[/quote]
Thanks for the advice. Well noted.
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Re: Canoeing/kayaking vs swimming [Jan Marais] [ In reply to ]
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Jan Marais wrote:
jollyroger88 wrote:
The K1 5000m WR is around 18 minutes; if you own a recreational kayak, probably a 3000m is a reasonable substitute for a 1500m swim leg



Thanks! This might just lead me onto something.

With a 14:31:02 WR time for a 1500 m swim, and assuming both world record holders to be top performing athletes, I get 16,67 km/hr K1 speed and 6,2 km/hr swimming speed, giving me a distance ratio of about 2.7:1. So the 1500 m swim will compare to a 4050 m K1 distance. I think 4 km would do it for me.

Would you guys agree with my reasoning?


I suggested 3000m instead of 4000m because the K1 5000m WR was set possibly with some fancy carbon fiber super-boat, costing around 20k $, that most people could not afford. If you attempt with a recreational kayak, a 3000m seems a fair compromise
Last edited by: jollyroger88: Jul 10, 20 1:41
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Re: Canoeing/kayaking vs swimming [jollyroger88] [ In reply to ]
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[/quote] I suggested 3000m instead of 4000m because the K1 5000m WR was set possibly with some fancy carbon fiber super-boat, costing around 20k $, that most people could not afford. If you attempt with a recreational kayak, a 3000m seems a fair compromise[/quote]
Noted.

How long does it take the reacreational triathlete to do the swimming leg? I read the average is about 45 minutes. 3000 m kayaking will only take me 30 minutes, so the 4000 sounds more realistic to me. I use a Fluid Synergy 2.5 seater which I then do solo.
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Re: Canoeing/kayaking vs swimming [Jan Marais] [ In reply to ]
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Replace the kayak with a 14 foot SUP board and now you have my attention. Going full gas on one of those will get your heart rate up!
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Re: Canoeing/kayaking vs swimming [Jan Marais] [ In reply to ]
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Jan Marais wrote:
I suggested 3000m instead of 4000m because the K1 5000m WR was set possibly with some fancy carbon fiber super-boat, costing around 20k $, that most people could not afford. If you attempt with a recreational kayak, a 3000m seems a fair compromise[/quote]

Noted.

How long does it take the reacreational triathlete to do the swimming leg? I read the average is about 45 minutes. 3000 m kayaking will only take me 30 minutes, so the 4000 sounds more realistic to me. I use a Fluid Synergy 2.5 seater which I then do solo.[/quote]
That 45 might be for a 70.3 but even there with 1.9km the top 10-15% go 30 minutes or below. In an oly (1.5km), I typically see 30-35 being the time for a "finisher" with the same top 10-15% line being drawn around 24. My kayak is inflatable and moves about as well as I do in the water (which isn't great) so I would definitely take that 3000m distance!

808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo
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Re: Canoeing/kayaking vs swimming [Jan Marais] [ In reply to ]
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I think anything 3k-4k is solid as a swim replacement. I swim 1500m in around 28 minutes (I know, not fast!) and kayak 2 miles in about the same amount of time.

8k seems wayyy long to me - unless you have a really fast kayak that will take about as long as the bike leg.
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Re: Canoeing/kayaking vs swimming [hadukla] [ In reply to ]
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agree with the 3000m. the boat you have, from google search, looks very "slow" Not trying to be offensive, but there is a huge difference in the speed of an olympic K1, a regular sea kayak , a regular rec boat, and then a sit on top plastic boat. Huge difference, like super tri bike vs tricycle speed. i'm really surprised there isn't more kayak talk on here as it is probably the 4th most important sport in the "multisport" world. lots of carbon and kevlar tech to gaggle over. you should check out some of the Dusi marathon youtube vids to see some really cool whitewater/run events. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nhon-rGxrvk
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Re: Canoeing/kayaking vs swimming [jflan] [ In reply to ]
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jflan wrote:
agree with the 3000m. the boat you have, from google search, looks very "slow" Not trying to be offensive, but there is a huge difference in the speed of an olympic K1, a regular sea kayak , a regular rec boat, and then a sit on top plastic boat. Huge difference, like super tri bike vs tricycle speed. i'm really surprised there isn't more kayak talk on here as it is probably the 4th most important sport in the "multisport" world. lots of carbon and kevlar tech to gaggle over. you should check out some of the Dusi marathon youtube vids to see some really cool whitewater/run events. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nhon-rGxrvk

No offense taken on my slow boat. It was bought for a completely different reason. I also have no ambitions of being competitive, rather a challenge on my own endurance. That said, I do not want to reduce the distance due to my equipment. If I am so stupid to do the bike leg with a 10 year old cheapy bicycle, then that is my problem. So I would rather have the distance realistic as if it were for a "real event".

I really appreciate all the contributions.
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Re: Canoeing/kayaking vs swimming [twcronin] [ In reply to ]
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twcronin wrote:
I think anything 3k-4k is solid as a swim replacement. I swim 1500m in around 28 minutes (I know, not fast!) and kayak 2 miles in about the same amount of time.

8k seems wayyy long to me - unless you have a really fast kayak that will take about as long as the bike leg.

Thanks for sharing your swim leg time with me. How competitive are you though? Do you complete within the top 25%, 50% or bottom 25%. Can I guess top 25? What is your cycling and running times?
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Re: Canoeing/kayaking vs swimming [Jan Marais] [ In reply to ]
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Jan Marais wrote:
twcronin wrote:
I think anything 3k-4k is solid as a swim replacement. I swim 1500m in around 28 minutes (I know, not fast!) and kayak 2 miles in about the same amount of time.

8k seems wayyy long to me - unless you have a really fast kayak that will take about as long as the bike leg.


Thanks for sharing your swim leg time with me. How competitive are you though? Do you complete within the top 25%, 50% or bottom 25%. Can I guess top 25? What is your cycling and running times?

I'm relatively new to the sport -- only did a few races last year, and have a deeper running background. ~70th percentile swimming, ~85th percentile cycling, and top 1-2% running in two local oly races last year (MOP/BOP on transitions lol). That was good enough for an AG win in M35-39 in one race though! Towards the end of last season I did a smaller (~60 people) local bike/kayak/run race and won it. Distances were 14 miles bike/2 miles kayak/4 miles run; typical top times from past years for the kayak leg are 21-22 minutes.
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Re: Canoeing/kayaking vs swimming [twcronin] [ In reply to ]
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[/quote]I'm relatively new to the sport -- only did a few races last year, and have a deeper running background. ~70th percentile swimming, ~85th percentile cycling, and top 1-2% running in two local oly races last year (MOP/BOP on transitions lol). That was good enough for an AG win in M35-39 in one race though! Towards the end of last season I did a smaller (~60 people) local bike/kayak/run race and won it. Distances were 14 miles bike/2 miles kayak/4 miles run; typical top times from past years for the kayak leg are 21-22 minutes.[/quote]
Thanks for the info. Much appreciated. (I think you're a bit stronger than what I am. Ok, I only started training 6 months ago and I am about 20 year older.) The race you describe above would be a nice race for me at this stage. I would hope to do that in about 2:05 to 2:15. Unfortunately we don't seem to have row/ride/run events in South Africa. Only standard triathlons.
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Re: Canoeing/kayaking vs swimming [twcronin] [ In reply to ]
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twcronin wrote:
Jan Marais wrote:
twcronin wrote:
I think anything 3k-4k is solid as a swim replacement. I swim 1500m in around 28 minutes (I know, not fast!) and kayak 2 miles in about the same amount of time.

8k seems wayyy long to me - unless you have a really fast kayak that will take about as long as the bike leg.


Thanks for sharing your swim leg time with me. How competitive are you though? Do you complete within the top 25%, 50% or bottom 25%. Can I guess top 25? What is your cycling and running times?

I'm relatively new to the sport -- only did a few races last year, and have a deeper running background. ~70th percentile swimming, ~85th percentile cycling, and top 1-2% running in two local oly races last year (MOP/BOP on transitions lol). That was good enough for an AG win in M35-39 in one race though! Towards the end of last season I did a smaller (~60 people) local bike/kayak/run race and won it. Distances were 14 miles bike/2 miles kayak/4 miles run; typical top times from past years for the kayak leg are 21-22 minutes.

Apologies for my ignorance, but what does MOP/BOP on transitions stand for?
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Re: Canoeing/kayaking vs swimming [Jan Marais] [ In reply to ]
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It means I'm Middle-Of-Pack to Bottom-Of-Pack at the swim-bike and bike-run transitions... task-switching and multitasking are not my strengths!
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