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Can you validate my wheel choice ?
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Hi everyone !

I used your precious advices to improve a bit my position on the bike, and now I'd like to change my wheels. I currently use 38mm Easton 90 tubular wheels ( aprox. 1300g) on my Scott plasma 5. I weight around 80kg, FTP around 300 to 310 w. My current CDA is shit. I live in France, so unfortunatly Renn 555 is not a great option ( VAT+ shipping will kill the price). It looks like I can't add a wheel cover to my 38mm with my frame from what I read on aerojacket website.

My budget is around 1000€ max, and here is the selection I have made :

- A corima CN disc wheel for 750€ : https://winstanleysbikes.co.uk/...n-tubular-rear-wheel

- A used ( but like new) 85 mm American Classic 2017 for 250€ : http://image.noelshack.com/...62294741106688-n.jpg
I also was considering a second hand Zipp 900, but they are a bit hard to find in good conditions and they are around 900€.

My concern was that I heard some people complain about the fragility of the Corima disc, any opinion about that ? I'm a heavy rider, I intend to use the wheel in some training sessions in addition to the races and the roads where I train are far from perfect.

Thank you for you help
Last edited by: strangename: Jan 3, 19 2:09
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Re: Can you validate my wheel choice ? [strangename] [ In reply to ]
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Any reason for sticking with tubulars?
Tubulars are slower, (crr wise) with less tyre choices available. More of a hassle as well. Tubulars for road racing, yes, but for tt/tri theres no reason not to go clinchers or tubeless.

The am classic uses an older zipp rim so aerodynamically it should be good, but the hub on AM wheels does not last long.

I would not be too concerned about the corima being fragile. All discs are somewhat fragile to a degree and should be babied abit, as the 'skin' is usually easily damaged. I would not use a disc for training.

For that budget I'd just go with Flo disc and 60 front and be done with it.
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Re: Can you validate my wheel choice ? [davidalone] [ In reply to ]
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The main reason is availability ( I almost never see carbon clincher wheels listed where I live) and also weight.

About the fragility of the disc wheel I was mostly thinking about potholes, I understand that every disc wheel will be very fragile on the sides.

The FLO disc is around 1000$ before VAT and shipping, plus its a wheel cover above a spoked wheel isn't it ? and it weights 1300g, that's as heavy as my current front + rear combo.
Last edited by: strangename: Jan 3, 19 2:52
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Re: Can you validate my wheel choice ? [davidalone] [ In reply to ]
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davidalone wrote:
Any reason for sticking with tubulars?
Tubulars are slower, (crr wise) with less tyre choices available. More of a hassle as well. Tubulars for road racing, yes, but for tt/tri theres no reason not to go clinchers or tubeless.

Starting from scratch, yes I would choose clinchers now; but tubulars aren't quite the hindrance or hassle you make out relative to carbon clinchers.

_________________________
27 years and counting
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Re: Can you validate my wheel choice ? [strangename] [ In reply to ]
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Is there a reason you couldn't make the smaller jump to something like 60/60 combo or 60/90? The disc option is just so much more expensive. The HED jet6+ deal is often found sub 1k (not sure what the VAT would add). A disc cover is available for that if desired.

Anything close to the current weight you have is going to cost a premium. But as so many here say, weight isn't as critical. Even though I myself find it hard to add when you can blow a few more dollars and not have it, haha.
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Re: Can you validate my wheel choice ? [strangename] [ In reply to ]
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In Europe, you can get an AeroCoach Aeox disc for much less than a FLO. Similar concept, but (claimed) faster. I've got a few rides on mine and it's a good wheel.

I think you're way over-emphasising wheel weight in your considerations. The main drivers should be aerodynamics (so, a disc) and rolling resistance (clinchers). I'd rather ride a 2.2kg wheelset that's aero than a 1.2 kilo Mavic R-Sys...

But since you are concerned about weight, how about Citec? Their clincher disc comes in under a kilo and reasonably priced.

ZONE3 - We Last Longer
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Re: Can you validate my wheel choice ? [tessar] [ In reply to ]
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@ KG 6 : Well no reason in particular, but discs are faster so why would I go for a 90 rear if I can fit both wheels I mentionned in my first post ?

I saw the deal you mentionned (HED) but the VAT would apply and that would be quite expensive for a 60/60 combo. And if I'm spending 1000€ in wheels, again why go for a set of wheel that not really deep but quite heavy when the combo I suggested will total 1600g, thats pretty light for a disc/90 front combo and in my price range ? The 60/60 Hed is more expensive, less aero and heavier than the disc/90 set, isn't it ?


@Tessar : Citec disc is 1250€ on its own, way too much.
Aerocoach disc is 1450g and just a cover
I dont see how those options are better than a full carbon disc that is lighter ?


Is there anything wrong with the wheels I suggested that I should go for the options you guys mentionned ?
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Re: Can you validate my wheel choice ? [strangename] [ In reply to ]
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The Polish wheel maker Ron seems fairly legit and would be in Europe. I'd suspect you could find some nearby on Gumtree or something like that that's Europe based.

I see them pop up on Ebay a lot in the US, but the shipping and stuff would kill any deal that it is.

Not sure anyone here runs one, but worth a look maybe.
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Re: Can you validate my wheel choice ? [strangename] [ In reply to ]
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Assuming we are talking triathlon or TT's, if your goal is to go the fastest you possibly can, ditch the tubulars and get clinchers. There are many more faster clincher tires available than there are tubulars.

get comfortable being uncomfortable
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Re: Can you validate my wheel choice ? [strangename] [ In reply to ]
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Isn't Swiss Side sort of the European equivalent of Flo?
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Re: Can you validate my wheel choice ? [ClayDavis] [ In reply to ]
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So clincher are that much faster than tubulars ? Any way to quantify it ? ( 2/3W or like 20W ? )

To answer above : my goal is to go as fast as possible ( IM's) but I'm not willing to go from tubulars to clinchers to save 1W :D

Swissside : don't know much about them, but its around 1200€ for a set of 80/60, so a bit above budget.
Last edited by: strangename: Jan 3, 19 6:00
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Re: Can you validate my wheel choice ? [ClayDavis] [ In reply to ]
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ClayDavis wrote:
Isn't Swiss Side sort of the European equivalent of Flo?

Used to be, but they went upmarket last year - now they're full-carbon and collaborating with DT Swiss. I guess sponsoring IM Kona winners will do that.

ZONE3 - We Last Longer
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Re: Can you validate my wheel choice ? [strangename] [ In reply to ]
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strangename wrote:
So clincher are that much faster than tubulars ? Any way to quantify it ? ( 2/3W or like 20W ? )

Around a watt faster in most cases. The Vittoria G+ tubular (with latex inner tube) is just as fast as its clincher counterpart (with butyl inner tube).

Vittoria Corsa Speed tubular tyre is very fast: https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/
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Re: Can you validate my wheel choice ? [strangename] [ In reply to ]
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All depends on what tubular tire you are currently running.

get comfortable being uncomfortable
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Re: Can you validate my wheel choice ? [RichardL] [ In reply to ]
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RichardL wrote:
strangename wrote:
So clincher are that much faster than tubulars ? Any way to quantify it ? ( 2/3W or like 20W ? )


Around a watt faster in most cases. The Vittoria G+ tubular (with latex inner tube) is just as fast as its clincher counterpart (with butyl inner tube).

Vittoria Corsa Speed tubular tyre is very fast: https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/


OK, well for a watt I'm not going to go to clinchers. I'd much rather loose a watt and have 300g lighter wheels on climbs.

@Stevej : currently using continental sprinters ( not the gatorskin thing), mostly because I use those wheels in training and they are very resistant to puncture. I have no idea how fast ( or not) they are.



I didnt buy those vittoria because they are more expensive and less resistant to puncture from what I heard, and the roads where I race are far from perfect, I'm afraid I might only gain 20 sec with better tubulars but might have a 50/50 chance of having to waste 5 minutes fixing a flat.
Last edited by: strangename: Jan 3, 19 7:57
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Re: Can you validate my wheel choice ? [strangename] [ In reply to ]
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Continental Sprinter tires are quite slow.
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Re: Can you validate my wheel choice ? [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]
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jimatbeyond wrote:
Continental Sprinter tires are quite slow.

I didn't find any tests about them, but I was going to change them anyway. I had a double puncture right before my last IM last year, and I had to use what I had left at home : a 23 continental grand prix for the rear and a 25 sprinter on the front. I'm just finishing them and will swap for the vittoria corsa before the race, as they seem to test great. I see they are a bit faster than the GP 5000, so I dont see a reason to reject tubular wheels if they are faster.


So, no opinion on the wheels I selected except that I should go for clinchers (Which I'm really not convinced about) ?
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Re: Can you validate my wheel choice ? [strangename] [ In reply to ]
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Lets take Conti's fastest tubular tire (Competition) and compare it to a Conti TT clincher. Both 25 mm.

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/...l-grand-prix-tt-2016

The Conti TT clincher is ~5 watts faster with a butyl tube in it. Put in a latex tube in the clincher and you gain 3-5 watts more. So ~8 watts faster with a latex tube and that's just for 1 wheel.

And your Sprinter tires are even more slower than the Competition tubulars.

get comfortable being uncomfortable
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Re: Can you validate my wheel choice ? [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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I understand, but let's say I take the best tubulars tested there, the vittoria, then they are faster than both of the choices you compared above ?
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Re: Can you validate my wheel choice ? [strangename] [ In reply to ]
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Fastest clincher vs fastest tubular (both Corsa Speeds)

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/...a-speed-tubular-2017

There's also pricing to consider. Just looking at amazon the CS tubular is $120 where the CS TLR is $50.

get comfortable being uncomfortable
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Re: Can you validate my wheel choice ? [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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stevej wrote:
Fastest clincher vs fastest tubular (both Corsa Speeds)

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/...a-speed-tubular-2017

There's also pricing to consider. Just looking at amazon the CS tubular is $120 where the CS TLR is $50.



Well, those are tubeless, I'll more likely consider the GP 5000 non tubeless I guess. But I see where you are going, tubeless is faster than everything, and for the same performance tires are less expensive than tubular. But they weight more.


I can find the Corsa speed graphene tubular for 65€ each, thats not 120$ but its still more than the tire version.


But I'm surprised, those tests are saying that there is more to gain with the proper choice of tires than the choice of wheels !
Last edited by: strangename: Jan 3, 19 9:11
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Re: Can you validate my wheel choice ? [strangename] [ In reply to ]
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You also have to make sure that the tubulars are very well glued. Then, they can become very hard to remove.

If at all possible, I'd find a set of clinchers to run. Faster and fewer headaches if you get a flat. With latex tubes, there are also a lot of really good tire choices when you go clincher.

I really see no reason anymore to run tubulars other than nostalgia, especially for triathletes.

Edit to add: Yes, I'd take a reasonably deep set of clincher wheels + good tubes + good tires over a good set of tubulars + decent tire + marginal glue job.


Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | Cervelo | RokaWetsuits | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |
Last edited by: -JBMarshTX: Jan 3, 19 9:11
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Re: Can you validate my wheel choice ? [strangename] [ In reply to ]
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strangename wrote:
stevej wrote:
Fastest clincher vs fastest tubular (both Corsa Speeds)

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/...a-speed-tubular-2017

There's also pricing to consider. Just looking at amazon the CS tubular is $120 where the CS TLR is $50.



Well, those are tubeless, I'll more likely consider the GP 5000 non tubeless I guess. But I see where you are going, tubeless is faster than everything, and for the same performance tires are less expensive than tubular. But they weight more.


I can find the Corsa speed graphene tubular for 65€ each, thats not 120$ but its still more than the tire version.


But I'm surprised, those tests are saying that there is more to gain with the proper choice of tires than the choice of wheels !

No. Put a latex tube in the CS TLR tire and crr is the same. Tubeless is no faster than the same tire with a latex tube in it.

get comfortable being uncomfortable
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Re: Can you validate my wheel choice ? [-JBMarshTX] [ In reply to ]
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-JBMarshTX wrote:
You also have to make sure that the tubulars are very well glued. Then, they can become very hard to remove.

If at all possible, I'd find a set of clinchers to run. Faster and fewer headaches if you get a flat. With latex tubes, there are also a lot of really good tire choices when you go clincher.

I really see no reason anymore to run tubulars other than nostalgia, especially for triathletes.

Edit to add: Yes, I'd take a reasonably deep set of clincher wheels + good tubes + good tires over a good set of tubulars + decent tire + marginal glue job.

Sot let's say a set of second hand hed 6/9 clinchers, two GP 5000 , two Conti Race28 ? ( I dont know anything about tubes to be honnest).

Rather than a disc wheel and a 90 front tubular ? Well I'm glad I asked ! Thank you all for the answers.
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Re: Can you validate my wheel choice ? [strangename] [ In reply to ]
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strangename wrote:
Sot let's say a set of second hand hed 6/9 clinchers, two GP 5000 , two Conti Race28 ? ( I dont know anything about tubes to be honnest).

Rather than a disc wheel and a 90 front tubular ? Well I'm glad I asked ! Thank you all for the answers.

GP 4000 (don't know about the 5000 assuming it's similar) + Vittoria Latex tube + HED 6/9 = Absolutely


Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | Cervelo | RokaWetsuits | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |
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