Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: Can you make this set? [MI_Mumps] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
A lot of used to's and in the day we did this or that set, but as of today, I think I could make that set swimming, but it would be tough. I could pull it and add 3 more on the 1;15, but that would be super tough and a challenge set right now too..

No idea about what I can do in a legit triathlon swim, just haven't swam one in a long time...But in the used to categories, 23+ for a 1/2, and 50 flat at Kona(old long Kona swim course) was my best. Wetsuit swim for an ironman would have been a couple/few minutes faster I suppose. I did do a 26 for oceanside 70.3 when I was 50, accurate and very competitive, but I would have been about 5 seconds a 100 faster swimming that set back then too...
Quote Reply
Re: Can you make this set? [klehner] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Just need my wettie and some feet. I’m generally 28-30 HM, 1:05 IM. Swam my first 5k this summer in 1:30, Waikiki RWS (no wettie, but good feet) in 1:05.

100s on a 1:20 sendoff means touching around 1:15, and I just can’t hold that for long. But I’ll give the set a shot next week and do my best to prove myself wrong.

Scott

"I was tired, so I shut off my brain and my body finished without me"
~KFU, age 13
Quote Reply
Re: Can you make this set? [MI_Mumps] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
When I'm swimming, all day every day. scy
Haven't been in the pool in a while.

I haven't done HIM or IM; so closest would be a stand alone 2.4 at the Waikiki Roughwater swim. 52:30 no wetsuit and stopped for a minute or so to watch a sea turtle. I'd never seen one before. Also just two days after doing the Maui Channel Swim.
Quote Reply
Re: Can you make this set? [djmsbr] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I watched a handful of ex-NCAA swimmers reach into the mid 50's after 3,000+ yards. One of those guys was a consistent 55 minute OW IM swim guy.//

I think you must be misremembering something here. Any guy that can do that set to under a minute is not a 55 minute ironman swimmer. Any person in that category is a sub 50 non wetsuit swimmer all day long. There are maybe a handful(0ne hand maybe?) of pro triathletes that could do that set to somewhere under a minute, that is big league...
Quote Reply
Re: Can you make this set? [MI_Mumps] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
MI_Mumps wrote:
I have an aspirational swim set. Aspirational in the sense that I aspire to complete it and I worry about aspirating during the set...

3x100 scy on 1:40, then 1:30, then 1:25, then 1:20. All consecutive, no extra rest.

Made most of the 1:25s today, no way on the 1:20s. I did a 1:17, 1:18 and 1:23 later on, but leaving on the 2:20!

Can you do that whole set? If so, what Olympic/ 70.3 times are you doing?

I could definitely continue the series through the 1:10 (a couple of weeks ago I did 8x100 on 1:10, holding 1:04-3), and I think I'd have a shot at the 1:05. No idea about my likely tri times, as I haven't done one in years. I'm only chipping in because I'm curious where other people think this'd put me after the swim.
Quote Reply
Re: Can you make this set? [MI_Mumps] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
SCY yes it's doable for me. Last 3 long course races went 27:34 at Eagleman, 56:50 at Im Lake Placid, and 29:44 at 70.3 AC (before crashing on the bike course)
Quote Reply
Re: Can you make this set? [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Monty:

Right. He did 52:24, 54:59, 54:28, 52:44 in Kona from 2003 to 2007 which will now know to be long back then. His KQ times were near 50:00 with a sub 46 at CDA in 2003 which was probably on the short side. He was never a pro triathlete but definitely an elite Master's age-grouper at the turn of the century. Worked out with him again at an ASU pool for the first half of 2017. He is still fast in the water though no longer doing IM's.....
Quote Reply
Re: Can you make this set? [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
monty wrote:
A lot of used to's and in the day we did this or that set, but as of today, I think I could make that set swimming, but it would be tough. I could pull it and add 3 more on the 1;15, but that would be super tough and a challenge set right now too..

No idea about what I can do in a legit triathlon swim, just haven't swam one in a long time...But in the used to categories, 23+ for a 1/2, and 50 flat at Kona(old long Kona swim course) was my best. Wetsuit swim for an ironman would have been a couple/few minutes faster I suppose. I did do a 26 for oceanside 70.3 when I was 50, accurate and very competitive, but I would have been about 5 seconds a 100 faster swimming that set back then too...

So, how long was the 'old' swim?


Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | Cervelo | RokaWetsuits | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |
Quote Reply
Re: Can you make this set? [-JBMarshTX] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
-JBMarshTX wrote:
monty wrote:
A lot of used to's and in the day we did this or that set, but as of today, I think I could make that set swimming, but it would be tough. I could pull it and add 3 more on the 1;15, but that would be super tough and a challenge set right now too..

No idea about what I can do in a legit triathlon swim, just haven't swam one in a long time...But in the used to categories, 23+ for a 1/2, and 50 flat at Kona(old long Kona swim course) was my best. Wetsuit swim for an ironman would have been a couple/few minutes faster I suppose. I did do a 26 for oceanside 70.3 when I was 50, accurate and very competitive, but I would have been about 5 seconds a 100 faster swimming that set back then too...


So, how long was the 'old' swim?

However long it was, I'm sure the old timers will tell us it was up hill both ways....and most years done in a blinding snow storm.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Quote Reply
Re: Can you make this set? [MI_Mumps] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Yeah, I think I could, or at least give it a really good shot. Couldn't do it today, as I haven't swim since my last tri in the middle of July. But I'll get back in the water next month, and could probably give it a pretty good crack after a few weeks of swimming.

------------------------------------------------------------
Any run that doesn't include pooping in someone's front yard is a win.
Quote Reply
Re: Can you make this set? [gary p] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
gary p wrote:
However long it was, I'm sure the old timers will tell us it was up hill both ways....and most years done in a blinding snow storm.

1 - I am an old timer, but only did Kona 2x.

2 - Being an old timer, the first time I did kona the pros only had a 15m or so head start. I think that I swam 53:xx in 2002, and it was wavy and choppy that year. I think that it actually rained early in the bike or run.

3 - Being an old timer and ex-pro, I had my 50:ish minutes of fame in 2013 and won the swim on the old course.

So, whether it was uphill both ways or with a head current both ways, I remember them changing it in what, 2017? I just don't know how much shorter it is now than it was before the change.


Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | Cervelo | RokaWetsuits | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |
Quote Reply
Re: Can you make this set? [-JBMarshTX] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
-JBMarshTX wrote:
gary p wrote:
However long it was, I'm sure the old timers will tell us it was up hill both ways....and most years done in a blinding snow storm.

1 - I am an old timer, but only did Kona 2x.

2 - Being an old timer, the first time I did kona the pros only had a 15m or so head start. I think that I swam 53:xx in 2002, and it was wavy and choppy that year. I think that it actually rained early in the bike or run.

3 - Being an old timer and ex-pro, I had my 50:ish minutes of fame in 2013 and won the swim on the old course.

So, whether it was uphill both ways or with a head current both ways, I remember them changing it in what, 2017? I just don't know how much shorter it is now than it was before the change.

Brandon, you’ve probably answered this elsewhere, but what would be an example pool test set from 2013 that you think indicates the fitness you had then?
It’s a fascinating data point for us swimming nerds.
Quote Reply
Re: Can you make this set? [-JBMarshTX] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
So, how long was the 'old' swim? //

If you knew how long it is now, then you could know pretty exact. Someone had some great overhead google earth photos of the old buoys, and where they set the new ones. It was moved in about 110meters, so around 220meters total shorter than now. It looks to me that the times swam now does indicate that the course is pretty spot on now, so add 220 to 2.4, and that roughly is what we used to swim..

But it is +/- I would say some 50 meters or so, because of the start moving our further and further, and the finish going longer by not finishing on the King Kam side of the pier. I made a point to really look at this years start, and it has creeped all the way to the end of the pier. I remember having to swim for quite a bit before clearing that obstacle, so that probably washed the longer finish at dig me beach on the older swim..


On a good swim day the entire lead pro pack is going to break the record some day, and they should with that much difference from when Lars swam it..


I remember that year you pipped the boys, I believe it must have been that side/head current that held thing tougher at the very front??
Quote Reply
Re: Can you make this set? [Trexlera] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Trexlera wrote:
Brandon, you’ve probably answered this elsewhere, but what would be an example pool test set from 2013 that you think indicates the fitness you had then?
It’s a fascinating data point for us swimming nerds.

I don't know that I have answered. I am also 'Grumpy Marsh' and 4 years retired. I don't really remember too much of the specifics, and this may come off a bit vague...and long.

I was always a decent swimmer, but was never fully dedicated to swimming when growing up. I swam a 456 500scy free and something like a 203 200im and 200ish? 200 fly. I say I wasn't particularly fast. I never made the state meet.

For tris, I really wasn't fully dedicated until 2010 when Amy and I decided to make a real go of it. We trained with Brett and his squad in Thailand and Swiss. I was a front pack swimmer then. I posted one of his sets earlier in the thread. Pretty basic. We swam probably 20k a week with Brett and I used a lot of paddles only. 10x400 was a recovery day after a hard run. All easy. But, my swim (in general I think that I was a slower athlete those 2 years) really wasn't any faster, I was just a bit smarter in open water than previous. I think that I won the swim at Cozumel in 2011, but even though I was racing with a TeamTBB kit, I'd made the decision to switch coaches.

I think after IM Cozumel in 2011, I won every IM swim that I entered and several 70.3s. I don't remember the specifics. With Paulo we swam a lot, probably 20-25k a week. Amy and I also went to altitude in Flagstaff which really helped me, but her not so much. With Paulo we swam also with Eric Lagerstrom, Joe Maloy, and Kevin Ryan. All very good swimmers and one that was an Olympian. This was when we were with his squad.

So, it wasn't a single set. It was a lot of swimming. What I remember is that Paulo had us do 'just enough' fast work. He and I talked about it. It was when USRPT was getting more popular. We swam some quality 100s with longer rest, say on a 2 minute send off. These were best average or AFAP. But really, it was a lot of swimming. And, I feel like we also had a lot of easier swimming in there.

I posted earlier that a single set can be very misleading. Amy was always right there in a set of 50s or 100s on a tight interval. Whether it was the difference in stroke or confidence, my open water swimming was way better.

Most age groupers don't swim enough or focused enough. There needs to be an effort to have multiple speeds and really pay attention to what they do. That's why on the watch thread I posted that a garmin in the swim takes away from the swim. I'm grumpy like that. There's a big difference in 40x100x120 scm and 10x400x520 scm I think even though they take the same amount of time. I only coach about 8 or so athletes now, and it's remote. I hate that I say they swim 'good enough', but the reality is that most triathletes need to be able to make it through 1,500 or 1,900 or 3,800 meters without being gassed or falling apart. That's where the 40x100 sets really help. The bike and then run is where the real time gets made up.

That's not a real answer, but the standards are 1:10 scy and 1:20 lcm. I don't think that those change. You also need 200 speed to get out and hang on when it's needed. I took the lead in Kona after about 1k, because Pete Jacobs and Eneko Llanos didn't seem to be swimming that fast. I was 3rd and tried to pass. It wasn't overly hard. And, I pressed when I got inside the pier because I figured that Clayton was back there and was going to come around. It helped that Andy Potts didn't swim that year!!


Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | Cervelo | RokaWetsuits | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |
Quote Reply
Re: Can you make this set? [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
monty wrote:
I remember that year you pipped the boys, I believe it must have been that side/head current that held thing tougher at the very front??

I guess? I don't remember, just posted that I was 3rd in line until about 1k. I do remember some BS comments by a coach with the same initials about that year being a mediocre or slow swim or some other disparaging remark about the fact that the front pack had 25ish of us strung out. It helped that Andy didn't swim and for some reason Clayton didn't smash it like I figured he would.

Shit, now I'm happy to do 3k 2x a week and try to go easy all the time. I don't particularly enjoy the 1:15 per 100 or :50 per 75 send off days. I'd arm wrestle to be the caboose in the lane...


Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | Cervelo | RokaWetsuits | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |
Quote Reply
Re: Can you make this set? [-JBMarshTX] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Shit, now I'm happy to do 3k 2x a week and try to go easy all the time. I don't particularly enjoy the 1:15 per 100 or :50 per 75 send off days. I'd arm wrestle to be the caboose in the lane...


Hey, at least you don't have to swim alone, that is the last refuge of an old swimmer. I dont have to get to the back of the lane to go easy, no one is looking!! Except for of course the fishes on their thread, it helps keep it honest every time I get in the water..But I dont mind really, swimming is the one thing I seem to be able to do without getting injured, or even feeling little nigglies. You aren't there yet, but when you hit social security age, you will appreciate your lane and mates a little more than now..
Quote Reply
Re: Can you make this set? [-JBMarshTX] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
This is super helpful and interesting.
I’m not really a triathlete anymore but I compete in open water and want to get better at this, and am pretty obsessed with the discipline. You refer to 100s on 1:10scy; could you have done 40 of those pretty comfortably?
(I swim with a masters team and try to put together longer swims alone to supplement, so I’m looking for more open water/endurance specific information).
Thanks again for responding.
Quote Reply
Re: Can you make this set? [MI_Mumps] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
MI_Mumps wrote:
I have an aspirational swim set. Aspirational in the sense that I aspire to complete it and I worry about aspirating during the set...

3x100 scy on 1:40, then 1:30, then 1:25, then 1:20. All consecutive, no extra rest.

Made most of the 1:25s today, no way on the 1:20s. I did a 1:17, 1:18 and 1:23 later on, but leaving on the 2:20!

Can you do that whole set? If so, what Olympic/ 70.3 times are you doing?

See what happens when you start a good thread?

I'd likely have to grab the buoy at the 1:25s and add paddles for the 1:20s...and I'm not 100% sure I'd make it. Yesterday's swim workout was somewhat similar but a much easier version. 6x 1:40, 5x 1:35, 4x 132.5, 3x 1:30, 2x 1:27.5 and 1x 1:25, but with an extra R30-60 to the top at every drop. No problem with that one so maybe I'll give your set a go today if there's not something else already planned.
Quote Reply
Re: Can you make this set? [Trexlera] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
For open water I think that there are a few of key items that help.
- being able to change speeds and recover
- nailing a breathing sighting pattern that works
- having a couple of different free strokes depending on the conditions and whether or not you are in a pack

40x100x1:10 scy, yeah probably. But the FOP sets thrown out are usually 10x100, which I think is too few. And, I think that the ITU standards have probably changed since those guys are doing the super sprints now. And, IM may change since ITU guys have moved up.


Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | Cervelo | RokaWetsuits | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |
Quote Reply
Re: Can you make this set? [gregn] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I know - very pleased with this thread!

Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team
Quote Reply
Re: Can you make this set? [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
monty wrote:
A lot of used to's and in the day we did this or that set,

Hey, if we all can't wax poetic about days gone by, then what's the point of all this? How does the saying go? "The older I get, the better I was."

Besides, you're the king of "back in the day" around here. And we love ya for it...

Swimming Workout of the Day: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=5784860#5784860;
Favourite Swim Sets: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...m.cgi?;post=5004659;
Unattainable goals for 2019/2020 season. https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=6944848#p6944848
Quote Reply
Re: Can you make this set? [MI_Mumps] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Could make a few rounds :)

Did 10x100 SCM @ 1:30 holding 1:08as a part of a longer sequence on Tuesday... with those pace times could probably do it until I got bored or ran out of time...

___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)
Quote Reply
Re: Can you make this set? [MI_Mumps] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I could... the 1:20 would be my breaking point though where I'd have to swim fast to get a few seconds break... probably coming in at 1:16-17sh. I'd probably be swimming 1:20sh and the top part would be easy, no way I could extend to 1:15.

That said my open water stunk last year. I do mostly Olympic races and I didn't swim anything under 24 I think. Never been faster in the pool but open water is slipping... my best is 22sh.
Quote Reply
Re: Can you make this set? [MI_Mumps] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Great thread!
Some awesome responses and shared stories.
Right now SCY, Im sure I could do 3 on 140,130, 125, 120, 115, 110 and 105.
LCM (which we get to swim occasionally) I could make 3 on 140, 130, 125, 120, and 115. The 110 would be a massive task but i might get one or two in...(if im on a good day)

Ive spent the past 16 months swimming very consistently between 12 and 20k per week. Some with some fast and super fast kids. But mostly just pushing myself at each swim to go as fast as possible.

As far as Ironman swims, my last IM was roth and I was 51min but honestly didnt train the swim really at all over the past 12-14 years. I just got by. Hence the refocus this past year.
My 2 fastest ironman swims were at lake placid 47.04 and 47.30 (or similar) 3rd or 4th out each time. Kona in 1999 made up the difference between the two groups and came out of the water with cam brown (someone got a good pic of that). I think that was 49min range that year. And it was the king kam side of pier.
Have not done a half or oly but seem to find myself with measured efforts in the xterras I have done. Usually posting a top swim time of the day.

again. great thread

daved

http://www.theundergroundcoach.com
Quote Reply
Re: Can you make this set? [MI_Mumps] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Nope. For me that's just 300 on 5:00 and done.
Quote Reply

Prev Next