Doubtful. Phil was a recently retired ProTour cyclist and climbing specialist when he did that.

LS is not built like a climber, has to ration his efforts among three sports, and probably has a lower W/kg than Phil (more W, but much more kg).

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ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
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I'm going to take a crack at the record on March 6th.

Not really, but I am scheduled to ride up Mt Lemmon then, should be fun :)

Lionel made a point in a video after indian wells to go after the KOM for tram climb in palm springs. he got the KOM. Phil took it back from him a few weeks later, beat him by over a minute on a 15-ish minute segment.

granted lemmon is not as steep as tram and thus may suit lionel more on paper, but if i were a betting man, I would bet that even if lionel was able to take it, phil wouldn't let him keep it for long.

No

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Matt

Lol Lionel is strong but GTFO. World tour climbers unsurprisingly can climb really well.

No he can't, neither can frodo, keinle, wurf, brownlee, or anyone else you want to name from the pro triathlon world.

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

Pretty Lionel has advertised his FTP at about 400? About 75KG? He's not even in the ballpark for world tour pro w/kg....especially for a climber.

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24 Hour World TT Champs-American record holder
Fat Bike Worlds - Race Director
Insta: chris.s.apex

1:18:32
vs
1:21:28

If he went full gas from base of hill instead of from way out he MAY have a chance? No?

354 watts ‘only’ bump up to 370-380?

Talansky could do circles around Phil in World Tour climbing. I think Phil's signature climbing achievement as a pro cyclist was some domestique work on a mid-stage climb at the ToC.

Talansky beat Chris Froome and Alberto Contador at the 2014 Criterium du Dauphine.

(Talansky may never be a significant pro triathlete, but he *is* a pro triathlete at the moment.)

Hmm, while I agree Talansky had a beter cycling pedigree then, I don't think he could beat Phil up any hill now. Phil trains specifically for single, short uphill efforts and his times rank amongst the best climbers now OF COURSE taking into account those times are matched up against races where the climbers both ride hours before the climbs and are racing, not time trialing. So I would dare say that unless Talansky specifically trains for uphill battles, he can't touch Phil's KOMs now

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

I would agree with that. Even Phil says that he's faster at the short Strava-hero climbs now than he would have been as pro cyclist. I'm not much of a Phil fan, so was passive-aggressively diminishing his status. :)

I personally think he has a shot. He's currently only just over 2min. begin Phil G's time, and didn't put out stellar watts (for him 356w). I don't know the climb at all, but at 5% gradient, being on his TT bike *may* be helpful for him as he does a lot of training in that position. Is there ever a tail wind on that climb? That would also be helpful!

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Lionel did his original KOM on Lemmon on a TT bike. Phil also rides a pretty solid TT position draped over his road bars in his video where he takes it on YouTube.

To get the KOM, I think LS would have to average 18ish mph, and there are definitely some false flats, quick downs, or steady grade places where aero advantage might actually tip the balance to a light TT bike vs climbing bike.

If he gets a really good wind day, he has a punchers chance at it. But IIRC it took a pretty special ride for LS several years ago when he took a crack at it for his current time. Barrie came on here, told us how LS was an incredible talent, and we needed to keep an eye on that Canadian dude who just took the Lemmon KOM.

Phil has more watts and less Kg. Looking at phils data he has a FTP around 400 and weights around 15kg less. I think lionels time is only in the same ballpark due to using a TT bike.

Yeah, I realize that, but based on knowing this, and the fact that the times are pretty close, doesn't this show this climb isn't a pure w/kg kind of climb? To me, it looks like it could come down to whoever has a better wind day as the difference is only like 2.5%. Who knows though - maybe the day Phil did it he had a headwind and the day Lionel did it he had a tailwind. Also, is Lionel stronger now compared to 2015?

What we do know though is that Woods can go faster than that (sitting in 3rd at only 329w)!

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Wow, just looked up the segment. . . idk how I feel about that haha


For others reference who may not use strava:

https://www.strava.com/segments/14959515

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QFT. 5% average ain't much either. It's at elevation, so the power is down some for everyone. Otherwise, if it were a climb starting out at a lower elevation those power #'s and speeds would be up a lot more. I suspect the KOM would get over 18 to 19mph.

Also, with climbs nearing 20mph the aero is going to matter. Our local 2 minute and 3 minute hills are about 4% and the KOMs are all around 20mph.

Phil has some shorter KOMs, but he's typically gone after longer. I thought in his books I remember him saying his power curve from 2 to 60min is relatively flat. Meaning not as strong at the shorter efforts.

If you ever wanted to snipe a Gaimon KOM, I'd bet on something in the 90 second range at about 3% average grade and use a TT bike setup and give it a balls out 1km time trial effort.

Based on some of my repeats on the first 6ish miles of Lemmon the other day, I would say aero position alone could make a slight difference.

My first two intervals were practically the same time with the first being strict aero and the second being 50/50 aero vs sitting up. The NP for each was 304 and 309 meaning it cost me 5 watts not to be as strict with being in the tt position. Wind seemed like a mostly constant slight headwind so the only other difference could be a slight weight drop from fluid losses between intervals.

So with higher power/speeds it seems like it would make upwards of a 10w difference between tt position or sitting up the whole time. Not huge, but not insignificant.

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Adam Feigh
Pianko Law, Speed Hound, Castelli, Sailfish, Base
Feighathlon.com

One of the big things that hinders Lionel is his efficiency-
He has lots of power, but he thrashes about so much that not all of his power is moving him forward.
Look at some of his videos- Sitting bolt upright and wobbling all over. So much side to side movement at the hips. Using lots of muscle to stabilize his body.
If he rode like his Zwift avatar he would go much faster-

Lionel does move around a lot indoors , but actually looks pretty smooth to me on the road. Pretty quiet upper body - a little bit of a "snaking", but not to an extreme level. That sort of snaking seems pretty common among really high-torque riders.

Also there are plenty of elite cyclists out their who are eyeball-melting noodly horror-shows in appearance. But I would hesitate to suggest they're inefficient.

Well Phil G can sustain 292w avg for 4 hours according to this - https://www.strava.com/activities/2158269315

That's like Lionel's wattage for the 70.3 give or take?

My imaginary money is on Phil.

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https://www.strava.com/activities/1903697525/overview


292 weighted for 4 hours is less than what Wurf put out at Kona - so it's good - but not out of the realm.

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DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!

Hard to compare a Kona ride to a straight 50 mile climb for a 14k feet gain...

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Next races on the schedule: none at the moment