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Bottle cage on Tri bike, time lost
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Hi guys,

I ride a shiv with the fuel sealage.. i also have a real bottle cage behind the saddle... Doing vineman in 2 weeks and am considering putting another cage on the seat tube, which obviously will make the bike slightly less aero..

How much time do you think I will lose by doing that? I'm planning to ride about 22mph for the bike leg.
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Re: Bottle cage on Tri bike, time lost [125mph] [ In reply to ]
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Umm... Why? Go for a BTA bottle mount instead. No aero penalty and easy to drink from in aero position.

That's the set up I run on my Shiv.
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Re: Bottle cage on Tri bike, time lost [pangaea] [ In reply to ]
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Well, I want to refill the sealage.. is it easy to refill using an aero bottle?
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Re: Bottle cage on Tri bike, time lost [125mph] [ In reply to ]
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Not an aero bottle between the handlebars, but a holder that carries a regular waterbottle. That's my set up on the Shiv...I just use the fuelselage and a holder between the aerobars. No other cages.

Spot

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Re: Bottle cage on Tri bike, time lost [125mph] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Bottle cage on Tri bike, time lost [spot] [ In reply to ]
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Well, I've tried the bottles on the front by the handlebars but I dont like the extra weight on the front.

How much time do you think I'll lose to the waterbottle on the seat tube? Pros don't seem to care too much:




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Re: Bottle cage on Tri bike, time lost [125mph] [ In reply to ]
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Well if the pros do it....

What's your break point? If it costs you 2 minutes? If it costs you :45s?

Curious as to your motivation in posting if you've already judged that b/c the pros do it it's the smart thing to do...

I'm racing 2019 IM Arizona as part of Team Smile Train. Will I implode? Will I finish strong? Donate to find out more!
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Re: Bottle cage on Tri bike, time lost [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
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James Haycraft wrote:
Well if the pros do it....

What's your break point? If it costs you 2 minutes? If it costs you :45s?

Curious as to your motivation in posting if you've already judged that b/c the pros do it it's the smart thing to do...

Well, trying to give myself justification.. Some pros do it some dont. I'm not saying I do everything the pros do but if it was a huge penalty they wouldn't do it at all. My breaking point is probably 30-45 seconds...
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Re: Bottle cage on Tri bike, time lost [125mph] [ In reply to ]
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isn't the virtue bottle made to fit the shiv's? Or do you want a replaceable cage/bottle?

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
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Re: Bottle cage on Tri bike, time lost [125mph] [ In reply to ]
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125mph wrote:
James Haycraft wrote:
Well if the pros do it....

What's your break point? If it costs you 2 minutes? If it costs you :45s?

Curious as to your motivation in posting if you've already judged that b/c the pros do it it's the smart thing to do...


Well, trying to give myself justification.. Some pros do it some dont. I'm not saying I do everything the pros do but if it was a huge penalty they wouldn't do it at all. My breaking point is probably 30-45 seconds...

If you want to do it, do it. If you don't, don't.

I'd go out and do some 40k TT's, and see if it makes a difference.

John



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Re: Bottle cage on Tri bike, time lost [125mph] [ In reply to ]
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125mph wrote:
Well, I've tried the bottles on the front by the handlebars but I dont like the extra weight on the front.

How much time do you think I'll lose to the waterbottle on the seat tube? Pros don't seem to care too much:





5w or 0.5s/km for the first pic

10w or 1s/km for the 2nd.
Last edited by: Nick_Barkley: Jul 1, 13 11:16
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Re: Bottle cage on Tri bike, time lost [125mph] [ In reply to ]
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The pros use non aero bottles because it's the most comfortable. They know they are losing small amounts of time but would rather have a comfy setup which guarantees they are going to drink. If you look at shorter races, they may have a different setup bc drinking is not as important as say IM Kona.

Also, never base your decisions on pros. The majority are tied to contracts that sometimes restrict them from doing what is most beneficial or what they would typically chose to do.

FWIW... The BTA up front is super simple (zip ties) and a constant reminder to drink. However, you already have 2 'bottles' and you talked about refilling the fuel sealage. If you're really willing to refill, then you shouldn't be trying to put another bottle on your bike.
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Re: Bottle cage on Tri bike, time lost [radelj44] [ In reply to ]
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radelj44 wrote:
They know they are losing small amounts of time but would rather have a comfy setup which guarantees they are going to drink

Or they're not as educated as the average Slowtwitch consumer.

I'm racing 2019 IM Arizona as part of Team Smile Train. Will I implode? Will I finish strong? Donate to find out more!
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Re: Bottle cage on Tri bike, time lost [125mph] [ In reply to ]
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Big advantage of a cage like that is you can grab a bottle from an aid station and just stick it in your cage, not worry about squeezing it into some fiddly little refill valve on your bottle/fuel sealage/etc.
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Re: Bottle cage on Tri bike, time lost [125mph] [ In reply to ]
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Cervelo testing showed ~1min detriment (over IM) for a Trek Speed Concept with an aero bottle on the DT, more for a round bottle...


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Re: Bottle cage on Tri bike, time lost [Nick_Barkley] [ In reply to ]
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Why the difference? Because the bottle in #1 is mounted higher?
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Re: Bottle cage on Tri bike, time lost [Rambler] [ In reply to ]
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Rambler wrote:
Why the difference? Because the bottle in #1 is mounted higher?

One bottle vs two? #2 also has a bottle on the seat tube.

Mark
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Re: Bottle cage on Tri bike, time lost [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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"Cervelo testing showed ~1min detriment (over IM) for a Trek Speed Concept with an aero bottle on the DT, more for a round bottle..."

There's the theoretical wind tunnel answer, and then there is the real life answer, which is not necessarily the same. If one position is more aero but to switch/refill bottles requires the rider to sit up and futz around for a bit, it's not actually more aero regardless of what the wind tunnel says.

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Re: Bottle cage on Tri bike, time lost [125mph] [ In reply to ]
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125mph wrote:
Well, I've tried the bottles on the front by the handlebars but I dont like the extra weight on the front.

How much time do you think I'll lose to the waterbottle on the seat tube? Pros don't seem to care too much:




Macca also has a BTA bottle:


pretty much every pro has a BTA bottle; the issue is where they but the rest of the hydration.




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Re: Bottle cage on Tri bike, time lost [Redcorvette] [ In reply to ]
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Update: I ended up getting a carbon wing.. RIght now I have a delta wing so I thought might as well put both bottles in the rear and use them to refill my shiv's fuelsealage.. I know theres some thought that the bottles in the rear cause more drag but I think its not too bad... Also I cant stand the bottles in the front because it feels like my cockpit gets cluttered and I dont like the extra weight in the front.

I came up on this article too: http://www.powertri-blog.com/...dration-systems.html

Seems like carbon wing with two bottles is one of the best options.
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Re: Bottle cage on Tri bike, time lost [125mph] [ In reply to ]
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So, to summarize, you didn't take one bit of advice from this entire thread and did whatever you wanted.

Good job, welcome to ST, you'll fit right in.

Slow clap.
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Re: Bottle cage on Tri bike, time lost [radelj44] [ In reply to ]
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radelj44 wrote:
So, to summarize, you didn't take one bit of advice from this entire thread and did whatever you wanted.

Good job, welcome to ST, you'll fit right in.

Slow clap.

LOL... well I did use the torhans system last year but it splashed all over the place, and the extra weight in the front was ackward on the handling... I ditched that system real fast.
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Re: Bottle cage on Tri bike, time lost [125mph] [ In reply to ]
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Not a single person on here told you to use Torhans piece of shit system. We all directed you towards a zip tied BTA with a typical round bottle (someone even posted pictures for you -- far more than a typical ST'er will do).
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Re: Bottle cage on Tri bike, time lost [radelj44] [ In reply to ]
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radelj44 wrote:
Not a single person on here told you to use Torhans piece of shit system. We all directed you towards a zip tied BTA with a typical round bottle (someone even posted pictures for you -- far more than a typical ST'er will do).


LOL okay fine you win.. BTA it is! I read more about the carbon wing and it may have too much drag...


Here's my new setup (note the torhans straw is linked to my fuelsealage:


Last edited by: 125mph: Jul 2, 13 22:19
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Re: Bottle cage on Tri bike, time lost [Nick_Barkley] [ In reply to ]
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You should check at least up on the naked science around two bottles in the main "triangle".

However, this all is irrelevant, as each of these guys go 20 sec faster through the kilometer at a single aid station than anybody fumbling around with a switch-up.

LOL again...
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