i have no problem with your position. i do think your pic bears out what i thought, which is that you ride steep (which is fine) and you are on the pointy end of riding too stretched (but you don't cross that line). i think that sucks up the 25mm or so in extra length you have in your position versus what my prescriber indicates.

the purpose if this prescriber is to:

1. suggest fit coordinates that conform to a norm;
2. and then more importantly prescribe (for the bike company i'm helping here) the proper bike, if that bike is ordered site unseen and if the customer has no good sense of what his tri position should be.

so, considering the very limited utility of this prescriber, i'd say it was mission accomplished in your case. the prescriber would not have placed you in a bad position or, more importantly, prescribed the wrong size bike.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

well, as you know what i had for you was 642/509. so either you have a pretty good sense of what your position should be or both you and my math are both off-base.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

--------------------------------------

From your in person fit of me (you said you would probably tinker further) on my current bike:
y = 640
x = 470

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

i would call that a "math success" for the purposes of this exercise, which is to make sure that this direct bike seller is able to predict the correct size bike (at least) and for extra credit perhaps get close on the stem and pedestals as well. thank you for your help with this, david.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

My initial numbers are identical to geauxTT’s at 5’9 and 717mm so I was watching his results.

You prescribed 607 / 477
geauxTT is at 610 / 485
I am at 638 / 478 (see notes below)

Notes :
· geauxTT looks way better than me on his picture … ! lol
· I was at 644 / 455 but have recently changed to the 638 / 478 after A) becoming accustomed to a road bike, B) losing a bit of tum and C) finding I am comfy for 112.
· My pads are very squishy – seems reasonable to assume they will compress at least 5mm from those numbers above.
· I ride with elbows on pads.
· I do want to go a little lower, but want to be sure I am comfy in the ‘new’ position first.
· Current bike would allow me to go a lot lower.

WD :-)

height=171cm (82cm inseam)
saddle height=71.5cm (Adamo, 4cm back from the nose)

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Ale Martinez
www.amtriathlon.com

Height: 6'1"
Saddle height: 747mm

Lots of torso, not much legs.

From my retul reports my pad stack and reach are 619 and 459 (to back of pad)

So your reach calculation (468) is pretty close and the stack (583) is a little lower than where I am at now.

does your retul report describe how your bike is set up? are you happy with it? and, do you have a pic of you aboard your bike, or, just a pic of your bike if you don't have a pic of you on it? and, of course, the pic has to be of you in a position you can identify (such as the retul position you mention).

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

640/507

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

597/462

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I measured 575/475; relatively short torso/long legs and arms, I think.

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Ale Martinez
www.amtriathlon.com

I have been happy with the fit. The main things I have changed since the initial fit was move the arm pads wider, and switch to an ISM saddle.

I realize I am no use whatsoever to you in this exercise, but on the off chance that someone asks Cervelo what size road bike they should get that can be converted into TT (think TomA's S5) here's what I have now x: 415mm, y: 715mm. I have a relatively low seat angle that throws off my numbers I think.

Did you post somewhere how exactly you would measure? Or how to compare to a Retul report for which I have Arm Pad stack 608 and Arm pad reach of 479

here's how to measure pad x and y (or pad reach and stack). or at least where to measure it.



saddle height, bottom bracket center straight to the top of the saddle, 4cm behind the nose of the saddle.

in this case i believe your 608mm more than i believe my 640mm. however, that 608mm is going to give you pretty good drop, probably 135mm or 145mm, something like that, i'm guessing. which is fine.

now, the 479mm, retul measures to the back. so add 40mm to that, you're getting around 520mm to pad center. either you ride very steep, or you have pads considerably in front of your shoulders, or it's just that really really really long torso.

love to see a pic of you aboard your bike. your situation causes me to wonder if i'm not "honoring" morphology enough in my outputs.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Hi Dan,

My height = 1780mm (5'10")
My Saddle height = 728mm

Ah ok, that 479 I gave you was saddle to arm pad, not BB to pad. So BB to back of pad is 464 + 40 for 504 which is almost exactly what you gave me.

my numbers are
182 cm
81.3 cm

Thanks

You have me at 602/470 vs. 565/505. That puts me on the wrong size bike, but not by much. I've ridden 470 before, and say your stack has a 'safe' range of +/- 20 mm, so you'd really want to prescribe a bike that hits between 580 and 620 -- that would almost work. But not quite. And for this reason I still think you need a subjective assessment on how competitive this person expects to be. If I'm a Division 1 cross country runner or swimmer just getting into the sport, I may not know anything about bikes or fits, but I'd still want something consistent with my performance expectations. So in my case you'd err to a 51 P5 vs. a 54 P5, a 51 IA vs. a 54 IA, Small SC vs. Medium SC, etc. -- because you prescriber puts me too low on the bigger sizes stack envelope for what my goals are

Do we need to add anything to your x/y to compare with the Stack/Reach Database? http://www.slowtwitch.com/stackreach/ I guess that is to top of frame rather than pads?

e.g. I have a -8deg 90mm stem with 3t aerobars, 10mm spacers blah blah which is x,y away from head tube?

617/485

so, what are you riding now? and do you have a pic?

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

650/481

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

My height is 1780 mm
Saddle height is 685 mm
Long torso, not much leg.

you and LAI are in the same boat. you see those guys well below and to the right of those red squares?



that's you. you and LAI. i'm not criticizing your positions. just, those red squares are male pros. what box should they be checking when asked how ardent their race ambitions?

your position is not orthodox. which is fine. be yourself, that's what i always say. but i can't "teach" you. i can't recommend you. i have to output for the fat of the bell curve, not for the outlier.

now, in reality, in 5 years you may come back and say, "well, my position has evolved." that's what happened to mark allen, after he won the ironwar. that's what's going to happen to matt hanson if it hasn't happened already. i can't skew the results toward the outliers knowing full well that history is on the side of orthodoxy.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman