Personally, I'd get the professional fit, no matter what people say here. I feel that not only will it determine if you are set up as good as possible, but it may prevent some injuries. Here's a few questions for you:

How did you set your cleats?

How did you set your seat height?

How did you set your handle bar height and stem length?

Is your seat position the same in the picture as in the video? Your leg is really straight in that picture.

I can actually insert a plug here for Tom Demerly's store. I took my bike in for a fitting a few weeks ago. Right off the bat the person performing the fit asked if I was having any knee problems (which I was, but had attributed to running). We made a few adjustments, and I have to say my knees have never felt better. I don't know if my set up was causing my problems, or not, since I have been doing other things to help my knees, but I do have a lot of confidence that I have been positioned on the bike the right way.

There's so many subtle things about proper positioning. I'm so glad I had it done. It gives me peace of mind. That's been my experience, good luck.

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"What the mind can conceive and believe, the mind and body can achieve; and those who stay will be champions."

I would second what the first poster said about your seat post being too high... I would also add that you might also try to rotate your hips foward a little bit, they look rotated back (counter clockwise)

If you are in the metro NY area I could give you the name of my fitter. Not a name per se, but very happy with the results, and very knowledgable

I would also reccomend going to a fitter... Besides getting a good fit you also get the peice of mind of knowing that you got a good fit.

The video was taken right after these shots. I was trying to get my leg at the fully extended position. If i lower my seat, will this not affect the motion of my pedal stroke?

Am i supposed to have full extension on my pedal stroke, or should my knees remain somewhat bent a the bottom of my downstroke?

Thanks,



-Kevin

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"Anyone can work hard when they want to; Champions do it when they don't."

Definately you do not want to be fully extended at the bottom of you rpedal stroke... you should be around 10 or 15 degrees bent... Havign full extension is going to make it difficult to have a round pedal stroke...

The point being... just cause something feel comfortable doesn't make it right... (speaking from personal experience) I would go for the fitting.

I have heard good things about enduro sports which is in canada, or maybe you could contact guru and they could put you in touch with someone in your area that could fit you

I agree about the seat height looking a bit high. The standard formula is to measure yor inseam by jamming a book under your crotch and measure to the floor in sock feet. Multiply this by .883.

Have a look at seat height section in this
http://www.jimlangley.net/crank/bikefit.html

You definitely want some bend in your knee like everyone else said. The thing is, you can't lower your handle bars anymore, so as you lower your seat you get less aerodynamic. I don't know how important this is to you, it depends on your comfort level and the races you ride among other things, but it is something to consider. I definitely think you should talk to Guru, and also get in to see a fitter. They'll be able to measure your knee angles and make sure you aren't damaging your body. Now's the best time to do this so you can get used to a new position before you start putting in serious miles.

So from my amatuer viewpoint, your top tube looks to be the right length, but your seat tube looks a bit big perhaps, but there's no way for me to tell for you, so I suggest the fitter.

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"What the mind can conceive and believe, the mind and body can achieve; and those who stay will be champions."

in the one picture where my leg is extended, i was over extending to get the maximum possible extension, i thought that is what hoop was doing as well to get the angles. I just watched the video over again, and i didnt see my leg extend all the way, there was always a bend in it.

I know i asked this earlier, but when you are looking for a bike fitting, would you look for experience in aero fitting, or power fitting? the guys in kingston (triscience) have done a lot of bike fits, but dont fit for aero, they do a computrainer power vs HR analysis to fit. Do you think this is worth $85?

Thanks a lot so far guys, i have been slowly tweaking stuff to make it feel better, and im slowly getting there :)



-Kevin

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"Anyone can work hard when they want to; Champions do it when they don't."

I'm not so sure about a computrainer used for a fitting, I've never had it done, and I have some certain reservations about it. The reason being that if they make any major adjustments (say a cm here or there) your initial power reading could go down, since you are not used to this position. Same thing with perceived exertion or heart rate, or initial comfort for that matter. It will feel different and it will be different. Now, if they measure your angles and watch your pedal stroke and take some body measurements, then position you, then tell you to come back in a few weeks, maybe, I don't know. I don't know that power and HR should be the most important things, I dont' know enough about why a person is put in what is considered the optimal position. It seems to me the optimal position keeps you injury free, and comfortable while maximizing power and aerodynamics under these constraints; not just maximizing power. I don't know that you can satisfy the first two constraints with just a power and HR measurement. Is this what you were asking?

If you are asking if aerodynamics or power are more important, then definitely power. But, just because they have a computrainer doesn't mean they can't position you for aerodynamics, in fact I think this may be a good use of the computrainer. Once you have your position in a spot where you are not going to hurt yourself, and you are comfortable, then you can start moving to a more aerodynamic position (which I think mainly entails moving the handlebars, but I don't know for sure). But you have to retain the comfort and power (check with computrainer). The problem is, you are not going to be able to do this in one session. It would have to take a few sessions, where you give yourself time to get your power back up in a new position.

Did they explain their procedure to you? Maybe you could describe that to us and we can give you opinions. The $85 sounds good, as long as they are using more than a computrainer and HR monitor, in my opinion.

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"What the mind can conceive and believe, the mind and body can achieve; and those who stay will be champions."

The other posters seem to have great tips. I've just got 2 things to add. You may be a little too stretched out. Do you get lower back pain after a couple hours?

A computrainer is a great fit tool, but it will not tell you much on a 5 minute ride.

A proper fitting will maximize your comfort, power, and aerodynamics. I don't understnad your question about "fitting for power or aero" A proper fitting should get you into position where you are comfortable in the aero position and can generate a lot of power... one without the other is not going to be a good position for you.

Consider this though... I don't know how good these guys are but For 85 dollars compare that to how much you bike costs (thousands) or your shoes (hundreds) your bike fitting doesn't even compare to these and will be worth more than any 200 dollar shoe is. So I don't know if these guys are your best bet for fitting but my advice would be to shop for a fitter in the same way you shop for a bike... research, ask around, ask questions, get a feel for things.
Personally I saw a measurable increase of about 2 mph over my normal ride after my fitting... much more speed than I could have "bought"

First off, I agree with your suggestions 100%.

Now some questions for you. What changes were made to your position? Do you have a feel for where this added speed came from, like added comfort, or a more powerful position, etc.?

I know that your results can't be generalized to everyone, I'm asking just to see how subtle the changes were that gave you this increase. Just wondering what your opinions are about why the changes that were made helped you out.

You're not the first person I've heard about that saw this much of an increase after a fitting, it seems pretty astonishing to me, that's got to be some of the best money you've spent yet.

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"What the mind can conceive and believe, the mind and body can achieve; and those who stay will be champions."

I was frankly amazed... from what i have heard increases like mine are not common but not unusual by any means...

My fit before was comfortable and I thought that it worked for me.

The changes were made.

Raised the seat post a noticable amount
Pulled the seat back a noticable amount
Raised the stem (I have a quill stem) a bit
shortened up the aero bars (adjustable bars, aerolites I think)

I think the big changes were rotating my hips foward, which allowed me to get more power

some minor things, switched to a handle bar size one larger 40 to a 42, which opened the shoulders up a bit...

I had a hard time believeing that such changes could be possible (heard such claims) but can't really argue with it if it happened to you...

I think the main determinant with improvement depends on how bad your position is to begin with...

I am now a strong believer in... feeling comfortable doesn't make a position right