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Best plated running shoe for existing Achilles issues
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Hi,

I've read lots of threads about the new plated shoes and in amongst those are anecdotes about how some may aggravate a runner's Achilles. But they aren't the main point of those threads so that line of thought doesn't seem to be followed though. Unless I missed it.

What I'd be interested in is if there are runners here who tend to have Achilles issues and have found one model better or worse than others. Obviously that would be anecdotal but maybe we find a trend by grouping thoughts here.

Personally I've only tried the NB Fuelcell TC and Nike Zoom Fly 2. Both are nice shoes but my ankle gets sore immediately after a run in either. So not specifically aggravating the Achilles but worries me enough to not want to do too much in them.

At the moment I'm training almost entirely on trails with Hoka Challenger ATRs. Thanks for any input.
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Re: Best plated running shoe for existing Achilles issues [OddSlug] [ In reply to ]
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I deal with tons of runners/triathletes etc regularly who want carbon super shoes.

The truth is there may not be a plated shoe for you. Your best bet is go to the LRS and try on a bunch of different shoes. Find what works best for you and don't worry about what type of shoe it is.

If it's for racing only it might be a step down shoe is the right shoe for you. For instance instead of the endorphin pro the endorphin speed.

The cart goes behind the horse, you're doing it the other way.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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Re: Best plated running shoe for existing Achilles issues [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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I absolutely get that. I'm not saying suggest me a shoe and I'll go and get it. I'm genuinely interested in other people's experience. I'm way off needing a racing shoe. And you are absolutely right that the best shoe for me is what it is. If I end up having to find races with trail runs that's what I'll do.

But if there is some experience that would bubble something up to the top of the try list that would be interesting.
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Re: Best plated running shoe for existing Achilles issues [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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desert dude wrote:
I deal with tons of runners/triathletes etc regularly who want carbon super shoes.

The truth is there may not be a plated shoe for you. Your best bet is go to the LRS and try on a bunch of different shoes. Find what works best for you and don't worry about what type of shoe it is.

If it's for racing only it might be a step down shoe is the right shoe for you. For instance instead of the endorphin pro the endorphin speed.

The cart goes behind the horse, you're doing it the other way.

the likely problem people with achilles is using a shoe with heel to toe drop. So far I know all the plated shoes have this, and is probably a part of what makes them work
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Re: Best plated running shoe for existing Achilles issues [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:
desert dude wrote:
I deal with tons of runners/triathletes etc regularly who want carbon super shoes.

The truth is there may not be a plated shoe for you. Your best bet is go to the LRS and try on a bunch of different shoes. Find what works best for you and don't worry about what type of shoe it is.

If it's for racing only it might be a step down shoe is the right shoe for you. For instance instead of the endorphin pro the endorphin speed.

The cart goes behind the horse, you're doing it the other way.


the likely problem people with achilles is using a shoe with heel to toe drop. So far I know all the plated shoes have this, and is probably a part of what makes them work

You mean a high heel drop? Most shoes have a heel drop, if by that we mean they are not 0mm heel drop.

With Achilles issues heel drop is interesting. A higher drop could be a temporary relief. A heel insert is a temporary measure sometimes suggested. But your body adapts to a drop. I know a doctor whose favourite joke is to ask me if I wear high heel shoes because people who do can get a shortened Achilles as a result.

I wear zero drop shoes or go barefoot anytime I'm not running. As it happens Hokas tend to have a 4 or 5mm drop which is what I mostly run in. So, for me, most plated shoes would be the same as my normal running shoe or higher. The running shoe gurus will tell me if I'm wrong but I don't think that makes them an issue for me.

My guess is that what is more important than a single measurement is the dynamics of how the shoe compresses and expands again with the running stride. If the heel is very soft and collapses, and maybe faster and further than the forefoot, in an uncontrolled way that seems more work for the Achilles for me. Equally some cushioning in the heel could make take some of the work off the Achilles. As Brian says you'd need to try them.
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Re: Best plated running shoe for existing Achilles issues [OddSlug] [ In reply to ]
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I have a bum left Achilles that flares up under too much run volume or too much intensity. Has bothered me on/off for years.

I use in vaperflys and they are incredible and I love them in every way but they are almost guaranteed to trigger my Achilles when I wear them. So I save them for race day.

On cue, I still haven’t gotten my left Achilles to really chill out since Galveston 70.3 but I ran well in them, so...worth it?
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Re: Best plated running shoe for existing Achilles issues [OddSlug] [ In reply to ]
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None. A plated shoe highly increases stress in the ankle joint and tendons and weakens the toes so you shouldn’t use them as daily trainers if you want to avoid injury.
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Re: Best plated running shoe for existing Achilles issues [guillermoD] [ In reply to ]
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Please don't take this as the ST way of arguing, because I'm sure there is increased stress in part, but is there a source for that?

In my experience I'd agree they don't make a daily trainer for me and I did feel in in the ankle. I'm thinking more like MadTownTri and wondering if one might be better than others in a calculated risk way for an A race.

Opening it up. If it's possible to engineer a shoe and a result happens to be moving running stresses about the body then my hope is it would be possible to be deliberate and prescriptive in that. Would it be possible to design a shoe for a particular injury?
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Re: Best plated running shoe for existing Achilles issues [OddSlug] [ In reply to ]
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The source is in the plate itself when they make a “pop” or the spring effect the plate produce at expansion (physics bro!) and the first point of discharge of this power is the ankle joint and its support system. I also had to learn this the wrong way by having several ankle and calf injuries.
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Re: Best plated running shoe for existing Achilles issues [guillermoD] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks. I meant is there any research about it that you know of?
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Re: Best plated running shoe for existing Achilles issues [OddSlug] [ In reply to ]
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there is a ton of research out there on plated shoes. One doesn't have to search for long or look very hard to find it.

Now anecdotal evidence, I mean ask 10 people you're going to get 10 differing responses. The problem with the evidence you're looking for is it's a bunch of N=1.

For instance I really like how the Nike vaporfly Next % felt on my feet, yet it took me < 200m to think they ran like absolute dog shit. That was the hardest quarter mile I did from a PRE standpoint and was only :01 faster than my Hyperion tempo's. Since Asics was kind enough to send me several pair of the DS trainer 23's when they changed the last going to the 24s I'm probably still going to use that as my racing shoe. I'll try the Saucony's and am looking forward to getting my hands on the Asics and 361 models as well. Yet for now it seems from a pace/pre/feel perspective I'm going old school.

I can tell you from working in the running industry trying on almost all the super shoes and putting people ranging from professional runners, pro triathletes to FOP AGers, to people who don't run and want to just walk in them bc they like how they feel and everyone in between that the many of these shoes are more wobbly then a training shoe. If you pronate you're going to pronate more in many of them. Many people say their legs are less beat up after racing in them, a lot of people don't see any decrease in their run time bc their run fitness is not there to begin with.

If you're running a 1:50 half these aren't the shoes for you for going faster yet they may keep you feeling better the next day. When I see people in the 4+ h marathon range in these shoes I cringe...and that's an open marathon. Many would be better off in a lightweight trainer but if anyone is a lemming to the sea it's triathletes

IMO the most stable ones are the Adidas and Saucony's.

Your best bet instead of crowd sourcing info is go to the LRS, talk to the staff then try some of them on. You could get 100 responses that say yes to your specific problem then you're the odd man out after putting them on.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

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Re: Best plated running shoe for existing Achilles issues [guillermoD] [ In reply to ]
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guillermoD wrote:
The source is in the plate itself when they make a “pop” or the spring effect the plate produce at expansion (physics bro!) and the first point of discharge of this power is the ankle joint and its support system. I also had to learn this the wrong way by having several ankle and calf injuries.

Thanks for this. In general we want to use our entire calf to toe system like a spring (like Oscar Pistorius prosthetic works) which requires a strong lower leg complex (which is why skipping rope is useful cross training as are plyometrics).

I can see how the spring shoes help racing, but day in and day out, we could end up leveraging the built in prosthetic as a bit of a crutch and weaken our own system which in the long run won't help achilles or plantar issues.
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Re: Best plated running shoe for existing Achilles issues [OddSlug] [ In reply to ]
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OddSlug wrote:

You mean a high heel drop? Most shoes have a heel drop, if by that we mean they are not 0mm heel drop.

With Achilles issues heel drop is interesting. A higher drop could be a temporary relief. A heel insert is a temporary measure sometimes suggested. But your body adapts to a drop. I know a doctor whose favourite joke is to ask me if I wear high heel shoes because people who do can get a shortened Achilles as a result.

no, opposite. heel drop shoes stressing achilles more. zero drop stressing it less.
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Re: Best plated running shoe for existing Achilles issues [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:
OddSlug wrote:


You mean a high heel drop? Most shoes have a heel drop, if by that we mean they are not 0mm heel drop.

With Achilles issues heel drop is interesting. A higher drop could be a temporary relief. A heel insert is a temporary measure sometimes suggested. But your body adapts to a drop. I know a doctor whose favourite joke is to ask me if I wear high heel shoes because people who do can get a shortened Achilles as a result.


no, opposite. heel drop shoes stressing achilles more. zero drop stressing it less.

Care to expand on that? This is one study for example -
Rabusin CL, Menz HB, McClelland JA, et al
Efficacy of heel lifts versus calf muscle eccentric exercise for mid-portion Achilles tendinopathy (HEALTHY): a randomised trial

British Journal of Sports Medicine 2021;55:486-492.
I've never found anything to the contrary.
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