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Best job to focus on Tri
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I have started to apply for jobs as I am done with school (for now). I live in Sweden, Europe, not the US. Rather than pursue a PhD in mathematical physics I want to focus on triathlon and get a "real" job. I don't know If I will get any offers, but for the sake of argument, let us assume that that's the case. What job would be best suited (in terms of stress management, hours etc) to combine with tri?

1. Teacher

2. Patent Examiner

3. Sales engineer

4. Engineer

5. Other, specify.

Edit added Wednesday 19th of June:

1. I worked half a decade before going to college to buy an apartment which earns me some money. I am by no means rich but the apartment`s value is more than doubled now, which made it possible to buy a summer house with my family a few years ago. That is a long term investment so I won't see the (possible) benefits of that for a while.

2. I am situated in Sweden at the moment. I moved here back in 2012 and save for a year in Africa (year abroad to learn French) I have done my bachelor`s and master`s here. I don't mind changing location though, as long as it on this side of the pond. My GF is currently wrapping her master`s up in Hamburg, Germany, and will start to apply for a PhD pretty soon. I guess getting a job close to where she ends up would be nice.

3. Money doesn't make me happy. I am super boring. As long as I have enough to pay the rent and get food on the table, free time > money. I already have a wet suit, a Scott plasma, disc wheel/808, power meter, aero helmet and skin suit, so I don't think I'm going to spend a lot on triathlon, save for races.

4. This is my third year in triathlon. My PR´s for 70.3 are 31, 2.20, 1.26 (done this year in different races) respectively and my total is 4.28. So a MOP, but to my defence I was in a wheel chair between my first and my second season. This is the first time ever I have worked out 18 months consecutively and I still am way too heavy. (Something I will address in the off season.). I know I am far off the front but I believe I have the potential to go 29-2.15-1.22 on a fast and flat course (and a good day) based on my numbers in training. While that is anything but impressive, I would be very happy to hit those numbers this year. I have started to work with a local swim coach who is confident that I can be moulded into a decent triathlon swimmer. We just need time.

5. I have applied for a position at the European Patent Office in MĂĽnchen/den Haag. Other than that I have only applied locally. I have received more positive feedback than I had expected from engineering companies. Most people I talk to give the impression that getting that first job is super hard. That is why I wanted some input from strangers.

6. Maximizing my potential in triathlon is the 5 year project I will dedicate my life to. I am crazy competitive and thus I want a job in which personal success gets taken out of the equation. This is partly why I have considered becoming a teacher. And just to be clear: I do think teachers are important. It just doesn't turn my switch on in terms of competition.

I have some experience from a local high school and my uni (Calculus 1-3, linear algebra, mechanics etc) and I have found the work to be pretty chill in terms of stress levels. I was asked to apply for a full time position at the local high school only yesterday. Pros: The commute is less than 10 miles, the high school is in a very good area -> the kids behave most of the time and my boss is pretty relaxed about me going for a run during gap hours. I don't have to move. Biggest con: the salary. But it would make the boat more than float. Also, there is a bit more baby sitting than what I am used to at uni. Even though engineering students don't care for or understand mathematics, they want to pass their classes, which makes my job a lot easier.

7. Had I wanted to focus on career, I would have applied for a PhD in mathematics/physics/mathematical physics. Mathematical beauty appeals to me and I have a hard time believing that any job in the industry can get my wheels spinning in the same way. The only thing that makes me more alive is triathlon.
Last edited by: Schnellinger: Jun 19, 19 7:17
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Re: Best job to focus on Tri [Schnellinger] [ In reply to ]
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Some IT jobs are good in these days. You get to work from home from time to time, you make good money and you can have enough time for training. As long as you do your work and deliver, you can work any time you want.
Last edited by: s13tx: Jun 18, 19 12:12
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Re: Best job to focus on Tri [Schnellinger] [ In reply to ]
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Do you have any interest in finance? Are you at the top of your class? If so, I suggest quantitative hedge fund.

It’s a fast-paced fascinating career. Start at an established shop like Citadel, DE Shaw, AQR, Renaissance, etc. and learn the ropes.
Last edited by: wintershade: Jun 18, 19 12:00
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Re: Best job to focus on Tri [Schnellinger] [ In reply to ]
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Check out Epic here in Madison, Wisconsin. Great pay/ benefits right out of school, and a surprising number of high-level post-collegiate athlete types. I feel like half of the starting line at the local tri series races are my current/ past co-workers.

I'm a project manager and travel (not ideal for tri), but a lot of our technical roles don't travel and check a lot of the boxes you are looking for. It's certainly not low-stress, but it's a great place to start a career and madison is good city for tri. Feel free to PM me, we're hiring almost all roles currently.
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Re: Best job to focus on Tri [Schnellinger] [ In reply to ]
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I'm an elementary school teacher. The better a teacher I am, the worse I get at races.

It's by far the most physically, mentally, and emotionally draining thing I've ever done. Even with commuting, I still struggle to have the energy to get in quality miles. It's not like I can just kick back in a desk chair and stay off my feet for a while. It's pretty much non-stop movement for 7.5 hours. Even finding time for a bathroom break is a challenge most days.

Summer is fine, of course, and spring and winter and fall breaks give you a little time, but Jan-May is horrendous for training energy.

So I'd vote "not ideal for endurance sport" for a teacher.
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Re: Best job to focus on Tri [Schnellinger] [ In reply to ]
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Schnellinger wrote:
I have started to apply for jobs as I am done with school (for now). Rather than pursue a PhD in mathematical physics I want to focus on triathlon and get a "real" job. I don't know If I will get any offers, but for the sake of argument, let us assume that that's the case. What job would be best suited (in terms of stress management, hours etc) to combine with tri?

May be I misread you, but I noticed that getting a job is kind of less important than triathlon.

Eeh, don't do that. Don't put leisure activity before work. That's a recipe for a disaster. And, significantly less fulfilling in the long run.

Unless you're already wealthy, of course.
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Re: Best job to focus on Tri [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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wintershade wrote:
Do you have any interest in finance? Are you at the top of your class? If so, I suggest quantitative hedge fund.

It’s a fast-paced fascinating career. Start at an established shop like Citadel, DE Shaw, AQR, Renaissance, etc. and learn the ropes.

You need to lead with;
Do you have a PhD in artificial intelligence, machine learning, or physics?

having an MBA from Harvard will not get you in the door at Renny or Citadel anymore haha You also wont be working a 9am to 5pm - albeit it is probably better hours than novice to mid level investment bankers.

My suggestion - marry wealthy haha
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Re: Best job to focus on Tri [ask77nl] [ In reply to ]
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ask77nl wrote:
Schnellinger wrote:
I have started to apply for jobs as I am done with school (for now). Rather than pursue a PhD in mathematical physics I want to focus on triathlon and get a "real" job. I don't know If I will get any offers, but for the sake of argument, let us assume that that's the case. What job would be best suited (in terms of stress management, hours etc) to combine with tri?


May be I misread you, but I noticed that getting a job is kind of less important than triathlon.

Eeh, don't do that. Don't put leisure activity before work. That's a recipe for a disaster. And, significantly less fulfilling in the long run.

Unless you're already wealthy, of course.

x2

Its just a hobby. Of course my 22 year old self would be thinking the same thing. Look at a job you will enjoy, triathlon will come and go. You'll be working 40+ hours a week. Doing tri maybe 10-15 hours tops. You're first job will also probably set your career path, you might not be interested in tri's come 5 years from now.

Also generally, higher the stress and hours the more pay. Do you want to live on beans and rice the rest of your life?
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Re: Best job to focus on Tri [Schnellinger] [ In reply to ]
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What would you say are the features of a job which fits well with the Tri lifestyle?

My picks would be:

Well paid, so you can buy all the toys;
Has a fixed weekly routine, so you can establish a weekly training schedule;
Local, so you are not stuck sitting in a car or on s plane all week;
Very different from tri so that training is a pleasure, a diversion and a release.
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Re: Best job to focus on Tri [ask77nl] [ In reply to ]
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Is it really? Is finding a job that allows you to enjoy your hobbies outside of work really a recipe for disaster?? Is that really less fulfilling than putting your job above everything else?? Reasonable minds might disagree with your conclusions here.
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Re: Best job to focus on Tri [Schnellinger] [ In reply to ]
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Work from home is great. Set up the Wahoo with a desk, work and ride simultaneously. Go out for runs at lunch. Highly recommend
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Re: Best job to focus on Tri [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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DFW_Tri wrote:
Is it really? Is finding a job that allows you to enjoy your hobbies outside of work really a recipe for disaster?? Is that really less fulfilling than putting your job above everything else?? Reasonable minds might disagree with your conclusions here.

And the reasonable minds have right to disagree. This is one of the three questions of philosophy: how a person should conduct him/herself. And the whole idea of philosophy is to argue without end.

If we take by 'more fulfilling' a classic concept of eudaemonia, then different positions exist. Especially if we broaden the question to include all possible types of work and hobbies. Which I did and opened myself for a number of counterarguments :)

Allow me to retreat to original question of 'building a career after just finishing a good school' vs 'focusing on amateur endurance sports". I think practically every chap like Plato and Aristotle would agree that the first one is more virtuous and thus will lead to better eudaemonia. May be, just may be Epicures would put more emphasis on sports, but he most probably would just advice something like yoga.
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Re: Best job to focus on Tri [ask77nl] [ In reply to ]
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ask77nl wrote:
DFW_Tri wrote:
Is it really? Is finding a job that allows you to enjoy your hobbies outside of work really a recipe for disaster?? Is that really less fulfilling than putting your job above everything else?? Reasonable minds might disagree with your conclusions here.


And the reasonable minds have right to disagree. This is one of the three questions of philosophy: how a person should conduct him/herself. And the whole idea of philosophy is to argue without end.

If we take by 'more fulfilling' a classic concept of eudaemonia, then different positions exist. Especially if we broaden the question to include all possible types of work and hobbies. Which I did and opened myself for a number of counterarguments :)

Allow me to retreat to original question of 'building a career after just finishing a good school' vs 'focusing on amateur endurance sports". I think practically every chap like Plato and Aristotle would agree that the first one is more virtuous and thus will lead to better eudaemonia. May be, just may be Epicures would put more emphasis on sports, but he most probably would just advice something like yoga.

Me thinks Schnellinger is smart beyond his years....A wise man balances leisure and employment….

I pity the person who is locked in their job search without though of what's really important in life..hint...it aint your job and it ain't gobs of money.

"Good genes are not a requirement, just the obsession to beat ones brains out daily"...the Griz
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Re: Best job to focus on Tri [Schnellinger] [ In reply to ]
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Schnellinger wrote:
I have started to apply for jobs as I am done with school (for now). Rather than pursue a PhD in mathematical physics I want to focus on triathlon and get a "real" job. I don't know If I will get any offers, but for the sake of argument, let us assume that that's the case. What job would be best suited (in terms of stress management, hours etc) to combine with tri?

1. Teacher

2. Patent Examiner

3. Sales engineer

4. Engineer

5. Other, specify.

Thanks

1 and 3, are not particularly compatible. Teacher's don't make enough (generally), and they work very, long (thankless) hours. Sales Engineers tend to travel quite a bit, which is trickly to schedule with triathlon training.

I don't know much about patent examiners. But I'd imagine it pays decent, and is probably mostly an office job with a fixed schedule. So, possibly not a bad choice.

Engineering is a big spectrum with a lot of room for variation (I am one). So, the criteria mentioned above would need to be applied to the specific job you applied for. That said, many jobs in engineering would fit quite well (fixed schedule, good pay, little / no travel). That's probably especially true for entry/mid level engineering jobs that a Mathematical Physics Major/Masters would qualify you for.

I'm somewhere in-between DFW and ask77. Strictly focussing on "triathlon-friendly" with zero consideration for the other aspects of job satisfaction is a mistake. As was noted you are going to spend half of your waking time doing that job---so, it should probably be something that you have some interest in, and possibly even enjoy, or feel passionate about. But, triathlon (or even simply "life") friendly is definately an important factor.

There may be some aspects of certain desireable carreer paths that are less "triathlon-friendly" than other choices. Simply having a job is triathlon-unfriendly. So, if you've acknowleged that you aren't independantly wealthy....after that it becomes a sliding scale of pros and cons. Pick your most desireable poison.

Frequent travel, low pay, and long hours are going to be challenges to managing success in triathlon...or most other aspects of non-work-life. However some carreer paths start out this way, but have a significant upside in the long-game.

All that said, I generally advise people not to PLAN their carreer (or life) out beyond about 10 years. Its okay to have a notion about the subsequent 10-20...but, in most cases, you won't work at the same place, have the same job, or live in the same city in 10 years.

I've been an engineer for 25 years. I've been three different kinds of engineer. I've worked at 5 companies, in 4 industries, in 3 states, and 5 cities. Every job I've ever had, I thought I work there forever. Every home I ever owned, I thought I'd live there forever. I even expected that I would. Things change.

So, I don't see a reason to EXPECT you to have a plan for the rest of your life. You should be solid for the next 5, pretty firm for the 5 after that, and then maybe a vague notion on the next 10 (if things go well in the first 10). Beyond that, you'd just be making things up, anyway.
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Re: Best job to focus on Tri [Schnellinger] [ In reply to ]
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Do you plan to go back and pursue a PhD at some point and are using this time as more of a "gap 'year'"? Or are you just done with school and moving onto "grown up life" now?

What are your ambitions in triathlon?
How long could you survive (financially) without getting a job?
Are you tied down to any geographical locations for any particular reason?

I got tired of waking up everyday and going into "work", when my commitment/contract was up I took a chance and I now wake up happy and doing what I love 99% of the time. Finding that is what I think is most important, more than any amount of money will be able to buy. I think many people get caught up in believing money will bring them happiness, but at the end of the day there isn't a way to buy true happiness, IMO.

I think having a bit more background info would probably net you better answers, and those are the two questions above that I think are a good starting point.

-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM
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Re: Best job to focus on Tri [stringcheese] [ In reply to ]
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stringcheese wrote:
I pity the person who is locked in their job search without though of what's really important in life..hint...it aint your job and it ain't gobs of money.

I'm having troubles unpacking your argument. Why would you assume that 'what's really important' is not 'locked in job search'? :)
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Re: Best job to focus on Tri [@BW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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I think its a reasonable question to ask. Triathlon and the accompanying lifestyle is important to him. Before i went to medical school I worked a 8:30-5 p.m. job as a quality control chemist that was amazing in a lot of respects. The pay was decent, a lot of the work was very routine and you could be on autopilot for much of the day. The amount of overall job related stress was minimal. Additionally, there was no after hours work and no weekend work. Now, as a physician, I make tons more money, but the amount of job related stress is way higher. I also work many nights and weekends. Successful triathlon training is difficult to impossible. Of course I made that decision knowing full well the "sacrifices" I would have to make in my life, as well as looking forward to the accompanying rewards, which are far greater in both monetary and non-monetary respects. I do think it is important to understand what is most important in your life, because for some people, that may not involve the "work comes first" that many of us partake in. Many jobs can be done quite well and still leave time and energy for leisure. Many other jobs do not.
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Re: Best job to focus on Tri [Schnellinger] [ In reply to ]
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If you want to focus on triathlons and have work/career come second I would suggest looking for a work-from-home desk job. I'm a senior business analyst for a large corporation and it's perfect for my current Ironman-training lifestyle. I can't say enough about how awesome it is to work from home. I'll never go back to an office! My husband is a software engineer and also works from home. He loves it too.

I do many bike and run workouts at lunch. I can take a 2 hour training break and work a little extra in the evening if need be. Heck I can even take a nap on a rest day during my lunch break if needed. I don't have to spend time commuting to work every day and I don't have to spend extra time making my lunches in the evening (what a pain).

The one thing I'll say is that if you are a go-getter at work and seek a future management position, you'll work a lot more hours. Sure you'll get paid more but is it really worth it? With more money comes more responsibility. I work enough to make my co-workers and management happy and I get the job done. But I don't over achieve at work either as that will only attract attention and time away from what I really love doing: being active and training for my next big race. This is the cold hard truth. I'm a little cynical as I've been an accountant/financial and biz analyst for over 2 decades. I'd love to quit being almost 50, but Ironman is expensive! :-)

Death is easy....peaceful. Life is harder.
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Re: Best job to focus on Tri [ask77nl] [ In reply to ]
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Pursuing amateur endurance sports can also be an act of virtue that is often overlooked, and as long as you're not too obsessive. Your habits of waking up early training, working hard and achieving your goals will easily influence those around you, and when those around you take action they will influence others around them. I have known many people and myself who have made positive influence for others by setting up a good example of how to work hard, live healthy and achieving a goal while balancing a job and/or school. It becomes much easier if the OP is already enthusiastic about triathlon it seems rather than what he is in school for, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. If the OP has been in the sport for many years without any regret on the time he's invested into it, he's probably just living in accordance to his nature/temperament.

There's really not that many people who are truly interested in their work, most just have a job they can bare/not hate that can pay the bills. If they are lucky, they have a hobby that they can invest their free time into, otherwise most just sit around all day surfing the web and/or playing on their phones. If you're even luckier, you have a job that you love and would do that on your free time without pay.
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Re: Best job to focus on Tri [Schnellinger] [ In reply to ]
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Something where you can work from home. Takes commuting out of the picture, and I imagine you would have significantly more flexibility with your training schedule. In my experience, I was able to train super well during my PhD, but my advisor was not a micromanager.
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Re: Best job to focus on Tri [Thebigturtle] [ In reply to ]
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Thebigturtle wrote:
I think its a reasonable question to ask. Triathlon and the accompanying lifestyle is important to him. Before i went to medical school I worked a 8:30-5 p.m. job as a quality control chemist that was amazing in a lot of respects. The pay was decent, a lot of the work was very routine and you could be on autopilot for much of the day. The amount of overall job related stress was minimal. Additionally, there was no after hours work and no weekend work. Now, as a physician, I make tons more money, but the amount of job related stress is way higher. I also work many nights and weekends. Successful triathlon training is difficult to impossible. Of course I made that decision knowing full well the "sacrifices" I would have to make in my life, as well as looking forward to the accompanying rewards, which are far greater in both monetary and non-monetary respects. I do think it is important to understand what is most important in your life, because for some people, that may not involve the "work comes first" that many of us partake in. Many jobs can be done quite well and still leave time and energy for leisure. Many other jobs do not.

Any regrets going down the path you chose? I've been doing triathlon for 7 or so years. Competed all through law school and have gotten pretty fast for a kid who used to be 50 lbs heavier. But I'm a year out of law school working a job that is stupid low stress (and stupid low pay). I can train as much as I want, but I'm worried that if I follow a job with more stress/money, I'll be miserable.

@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri
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Re: Best job to focus on Tri [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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wintershade wrote:
Do you have any interest in finance? Are you at the top of your class? If so, I suggest quantitative hedge fund.

It’s a fast-paced fascinating career. Start at an established shop like Citadel, DE Shaw, AQR, Renaissance, etc. and learn the ropes.

Did you seriously suggest getting a job at Citadel as a possible 'good job for triathlon'?

Dimond Bikes Superfan
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Re: Best job to focus on Tri [Schnellinger] [ In reply to ]
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5. Bike fitter - per Slowman maths is the best background. Really bike fit is a bit of kinematics and simple trig with some physiology thrown in. Aero stuff adds some more interesting maths. Earning capacity depends on local population and how quickly you can establish yourself. Working by appointment makes it easy to manage your schedule. Just don't rush to add kids and starting other businesses into the mix
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Re: Best job to focus on Tri [ericlambi] [ In reply to ]
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ericlambi wrote:
wintershade wrote:
Do you have any interest in finance? Are you at the top of your class? If so, I suggest quantitative hedge fund.

It’s a fast-paced fascinating career. Start at an established shop like Citadel, DE Shaw, AQR, Renaissance, etc. and learn the ropes.


Did you seriously suggest getting a job at Citadel as a possible 'good job for triathlon'?


Yeah -- you just have to take the long view.
1) Teaches you to work your ass off to excel in the most competitive field in the world.
2) They will grind your balls off. All your hair will fall out from stress. So you will be more aero.
3) You will get paid well if you are good enough to not get fired within 6 months, retire young (you'll be burnt out anyway) and can do whatever you want like tris, blog about bike gear, etc.

(edit): And it's do-able. I trained for my first 70.3 while an investment banking summer intern, and my first Ironman the following year as a 1st year analyst.
Last edited by: wintershade: Jun 18, 19 16:29
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Re: Best job to focus on Tri [Schnellinger] [ In reply to ]
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Schnellinger wrote:
I have started to apply for jobs as I am done with school (for now). Rather than pursue a PhD in mathematical physics I want to focus on triathlon and get a "real" job. I don't know If I will get any offers, but for the sake of argument, let us assume that that's the case. What job would be best suited (in terms of stress management, hours etc) to combine with tri?

1. Teacher

2. Patent Examiner

3. Sales engineer

4. Engineer

5. Other, specify.

Thanks

I'd say that none of these are the best. The ideal job would be one in which you could work on call, at least on a 24 hs on/72 hs off duty schedule. That way, you'd have 3 full days to dedicate to training, while you could take "rest days" on the days you're on duty. Here in Brazil, there are many doctors, firefighters, policefolks, air traffic operators and other "on-call" professionals who are triathletes. I think that the sweetest deal one could get is being a judge, because you can take on a "on-call" position and, even though it might be mentally taxing, it sure isn't like being a cop or a firefighter.
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