I ran in Kayanos for years but do not get on with the new version (last two seasons) at all. Switched to Mizuno Inspire which I love. Feels a little firmer but still enough cushioning for me at 90kg.

Hoka ... no
Saucony ... no
Skechers ... no
On ... no

New Balance : 1080v9, Beacon, Zante, 1400, ...
Brooks : Ghost, Ravenna, ...
Adidas : Solar Boost, Boston 7, ...

“Hoka ... no “


Why?

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Not everything is as it seems -Mr. Miyagi

The lines are definitely getting blurred. The list of traditional supportive shoes is dwindallying. That doesn’t mean shoes don’t exist it simply mean’s you’ll have to be smart. My suggestions:

1. Squeeze upper with your thumb and forefinger around the heel. If it collapses because it doesn’t have a heel counter or because the heel counter is weak, don’t even try it on. You need a shoe with a solid heel counter that really wraps nicely around your foot.
2. Base nets matter to you - Flip the shoe over, if the base of the shoe is flared wide especially in the forefoot that’s best. If the arch area is wide and flat or not carved out that’s also good for you.
3. Midsole Wrap - Hoka brought the midsole wrap back. What this means is the midsol has edges that continue up the side of the upper creating a wrap. They do it in the heel of most of their shoes which can be of use for you in point #1 but where it’s really important for you is in the forefoot. That simple trick centers your foot which is critical in the support. Go into any running store and you will now see quite a few brands using a midsole wrap. Brooks has it on the Adrenaline and Transcend, New Balance has it on 1080 and Vongo. Nike has it on the 4% but you don’t need that shoe.

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Dave Jewell
Free Run Speed

why dont you work on fixing the heel strike? you heel strike when you walk. so are you running or jog-walking?

watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/...rCm6UA2U1k&t=32s

start running barefoot. I'm half serious. on grass. will help promote a better foot strike. Or you can be crazy and running everything barefoot.

I ran a Half today and there is a local that always runs barefoot... crazy!

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USAT Level II- Ironman U Certified Coach

I recommend Brooks Glycerine. I think they are terrific!

"Of the 70 runners analyzed during the fourth lap of the men’s marathon, 47 of them (67 percent) landed on their heels, 21 (30 percent) landed on their midfoot, and two (3 percent) landed on their forefoot. The percentages were similar in the 78 competitors analyzed in the women’s marathon: 57 (73 percent) heel, 19 (24 percent) midfoot, and 2 (3 percent) forefoot. And this pattern wasn’t confined to particular countries or finishing places. In the men’s marathon, the top four finishers, hailing from Kenya, Ethiopia, Tanzania, and Great Britain, were all heel strikers during all four laps of the race."

100% serious- this (running barefoot) is a very good idea. At 63 years old, and life long heel striking, along with life long running injuries, a PT talked me into barefoot running. I was 1000% skeptical, but thought why not try? In September I tried a single 1.5 mile run, on the street. It felt much better than I expected. I committed to run 1.5 miles a day barefoot for a week. I have run either barefoot, or zero drop minimal (Xero Prio, Merrill Vapor Glove, Skinners) ever since. Aprox 60-70 miles a week, mostly 2 runs per day. NO MORE HEAL STRIKE, NO MORE KNEE ACHE, NO MORE SORE FEET. My gait is much more efficient, I recently ran my best 1/2 marathon in 5 years (without pushing!). This may not work for everybody, but it is something everybody should at least give a legitimate try! BTW- XERO shoes are super comfortable to run in, and all their shoes have a 5,000 mile minimum guarantee, yes, five thousand!
Last year’s (maybe 2017) winner of the Santa Clarita Marathon in 60 + went under 3 hours, and ran fully barefoot, AND is a highly regarded podiatrist.
Run Happy!

place scales in shoes, in the heel, and in the forefoot, to show how much pressure comes down where, along the shoe, from landing to toe-off, for those who run with an efficient gate. that would be interesting. i think what you'd see is that there's no binary choice between heel or midfoot.

deciding whether you're a midfoot or rearfoot striker is not an efficient use of your brain power. it's like deciding whether your prospective spouse should be a blonde or a redhead. that initial point of attraction - hair color - is about as predictive for success is building a shoe around the initial point of foot contact with the ground. what happens beyond initial contact - whether you're on a first date, or whether you're running on the road - is what matters. are you overstriding? or is your footplant occurring at an efficient point in your gate?

nike - tho never good at explaining this - has championed midfoot cushion for decades now. hoka championed midfoot cushion. and now other companies are doing so. regardless of where you strike first, midfoot is where most of the sex is for those who have an efficient gate. on level ground, at least.

however, shoes need to have both rearfoot and midfoot cushion, because a good footfall means you'll be applying pressure to both areas of the shoe. should we get into a discussion of whether your car should have front or rear axle suspension? should we argue this over? which is more important?

if you sense that heel cushion is the only thing that's important, then i can pretty much promise that you're an overstrider, your cadence is too low. when in an ironman, you see these big guys running along at 6:15 pace with their little daisy cutter strides, shoes hitting the ground right under their knees, don't strain to tweeze out the initial point of contact. look at where you think they weight their shoes mostly during their time on the ground, before toe-off. if you analyze how good runners run, you'll see how and why good shoes are made the way they are.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

~90% of recreational runners and a good number of elites heel-strike, so most running shoes are worn by heel-strikers.

What problems are you having with the Asics? Which Asics? What do you mean by "supportive"?

I've had a bunch of generations of Kayanos and liked them, but in the past several years I've been sucked in by Hokas. Big cushy heel on most Hokas is perfect for heel-striking. Clifton 4 and 5 are firm and stiff, but other Hokas are cushy. I'd recommend the Napali without knowing any more details on what you're looking for. But depends on what you mean by "supportive".

Touching heel first does not mean heel striking for real.

I touch heel first but most cushion is performed by mid foot, and this is why I'm on Hoka and not any more on Brooks, Asics, or classic Nike, as I needed more midfoot cushion and less drop to avoid heel rubbing on the ground.
I do not consider me as a heelstriker

Am I part of these 90% ?
Not sure this statistic mean something clear.

And yes, many peoples are really heel striking while overstriding.
Is the solution big heel cushion and big drop, or less heel cushion and less drop to realize they could organize their stride differently ?

I’m a heel striker. I loved Hokas for awhile but I think newer tech has allowed shoes companies to make well cushioned shoes without being bulky. For me, new balance fresh foam zante are perfect. Cushiony but not bulky.

I am a heel striker-I used to use Nike Equalon-loved those damn shoes but Nike of course dropped that one and it is no longer available. So I have tried-
Brooks-horrible
Asics gel kayano-these were good but not good enough for me
Saucony-this one gave me PF.
Back to Nike which resolved my PF issues however I get knee pain because of it.
Adidas-I loved how comfortable these shoes are -Ultra boost. However I do feel that if I wear them long enough I will get my PF back as I did feel some of the PF come back after not feeling it for awhile.
Hoka-tried the clifton and loved it enough to take it a bit more seriously.

I hear a lot of the barefoot running thing but most podiatrist recommend against it. Some folks point to the Kenyan runners, but the reality is that most Kenyan runners walked barefoot since they were born or ran barefoot from early years. They never wore expensive cushioned shoes when they were 10 years old. Most of their early years of running was done either barefoot or in flat shoes. We on the other hand did have cushioned shoes so switching to barefoot may not be that great of an idea. Maybe it will work for you but I would not do it.

Hello

if you decide to run barefoot, you will need to do it very very progressively, coming from maybe 3x1km per week and moving up very slowly, and see what happen.

For sure one thing will happen : you will stop heel striking (immediately), replacing shoes heel cushion (and midfoot cushion also) by "calves cushion" and "knee cushion"

I guess the main question is "how much cushion" (efficiency, volume,...) your calves can handle ?

Personally, due to knee issues, hip issues, lower back issues (and other issues, I'm 52, and began "serious" running at 50) I went from basic overstriding / heel striking to more midfoot striding, developing "calves cushion" assisted by "midfoot cushion + low drop + stable shoes". Heel striking, shoe (heel) cushion was never quite enough for my knees, hips, lower back.

Now, when reducing the (midfoot) cushion, my lower back sensitivity request my calves (and knees) to compensate. And I'm not sure how much they can really compensate.... so I'm testing very progressively. Not sure I will reduce that much the midfoot cushion I use, especially when it is proved that some cushion increase efficiency, whatever your stride type (Colorado University study on the 4% prototypes). Essentially because they reduce the need for "knee cushion", apparantly.

Summary : seems that with my "mid foot strike, despite heel contacting first" I found the right amount of total cushion, and cushion split between :
the shoes (midfoot cushion : more than 20mm, Clifton 5, Beacon, ...)
the calves (progressively adapted to 5mm drop and their cushion job, seems happy)
the knees (not working too much thanks to shoes and calves, seems happy)
in order to satisfy my lower back (thanks to total cushion, not really happy, but OK) and also calves and knees.

Removing one source of cushion (typically barefoot of racing flats) will need serious adaptations elsewhere, so some time, and maybe some capacity I do not have. And what will be the advantage(s) ?

Yep, I switched from supportive shoes to minimal about 7 years ago and my problems pretty much vanished.
I used to overstride and over-pronate. Was prescribed supportive shoes and tried them for a few years. Constant knee aches and often a sore back too. Eventually I was suffering with a lot of knee pain and took a hiatus from running. When I tried to re-start, my knees immediately became sore again. I tried strengthening my knees (building up stabilising muscles under physio instructions) and attempted to restart running again on a few separate occasions in the space of about a year. I was a about to give up and just stick with cycling but decided as a last ditch effort to try completely overhauling my technique instead. I bought Merrell trail Gloves and started walking in them at first. Having zero drop and a very thin, completely un-cushioned sole, they feel rather odd to walk in. Then I started adding very short run intervals into my walk. By short I mean a total of just 2 or 3 minutes running in a 3km walk, divided between 2 or 3 intervals. I concentrated on shortening my stride and increasing my cadence. The shorter stride was made essential by the shoes, since I would otherwise slam my un-cushioned heel down on hard ground! The first time I did it I felt silly. My cadence felt comically quick considering my modest pace, and I felt I would be more natural and go faster more easily if I slowed the turnover and stretched my stride, but nevertheless it was comfortable. I initially concentrated on lifting my feet up quickly behind me rather than a lingering push off. This seemed the right mental trick to run smoothly with an increased cadence. After another few of these short sessions, as I gradually added a bit more running time, the quicker cadence and shorter stride stopped feeling forced and unnatural. Something clicked and it suddenly felt absolutely right. I no longer need to pay any attention to my cadence or stride length, It just felt right now and came naturally. After the first 8 weeks or so of keeping my distance increases very modest, the walking had been phased out and I started increasing distance more rapidly. My calves got very tight after runs initially, but that problem disappeared after a while and has never bothered me since. Before long I was running similar mileage faster than I'd done before and without any discomfort during or after runs. I was also enjoying it a lot more. I loved the feel of this new style compared to what I'd done before.

I know conventional wisdom around here tends towards not forcing changes to your cadence or gait and that your body "knows" how to run and will find the most efficient technique for you. I suspect that's true for kids running barefoot or in simple shoes. However, it's surely inevitable that more elaborate footwear, designed to stabilise and isolate your feet, will not only facilitate specific geometries but also begin to dictate them. I fail to see how a large soft heel cushion protruding a significant distance below and behind your foot can protect you from anything without also massively influencing how you move relative to the ground. From an engineering point of view it simply doesn't make sense.

I once ran with a slow cadence I'd estimate at 155-160spm. Now I run with a cadence around 185spm when cruising. I can only run the slower cadence with cushioned shoes and my joints and back suffer. I can't recall ever running comfortably at any pace in between, and I now run very happily with lightly cushioned zero drop shoes that provide virtually no support (Merrell Bare Access 4). I've had no significant run injuries since making the switch. I tried running in conventional shoes again some time after making the switch. I got less than 1km down the road and turned back. It felt awful. For me, now, cushioned feels harsh and clumsy, while minimal feels natural and smooth. I've run in Merrell vapors too and they feel great on good surfaces but they're a step too far for me to use regularly on uneven footpaths often strewn with sharp gravel. The soles of my feet don't like it and although I could perhaps adapt, I'm not inclined too ;)

Thank you for all the suggestions! Very helpful....I will have to ease into running barefoot, but it sounds intriguing and worth researching more to see if it is a good fit for me.

Yes, definitely take it easy.

If you have a neutral arch and tend to land heel first, the following might work:

1. Brooks Glycerin
2. Asics Nimbus
3. Nike Vomero
4. NB 1080(version 9. latest)

I have run frequently in the four above (average around 45mpw, 2:53 open mary) and I prefer the current 1080 over the current releases on that list (note: I do not run in the Glycerin currently, but people love em. they are boats of cusion. I live in the sub-tropics and find the glycerins too heavy when carrying buckets of sweat), but your feet might not agree with mine. I'm on the lighter side, so ymmv. Try out several. best of luck.

Change your form to eliminate or reduce heel strike??? :)

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Ryan
http://www.SetThePaceTriathlon.com
http://www.TriathlonTrainingDaddy.com
I got plans - https://www.trainingpeaks.com/...dotcom#trainingplans

sigh........this again. It's not that easy.

Most people will need about a year to really ingrain any changes in their running form. In that year most people can expect ZERO improvement. Most, not all. IIRC from the research it's >90%.

98+ % of all people self select the most economical stride rate & length for themselves. Unless the dude is over striding let him land however he wants.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Agreed. I don't know anyone that runs regularly that thinks about heel strike, etc. Just run more. people should focus on strengthening hips, glutes and incorporating some mobility work into their routine. Although, I run with an orthopedic surgeon a few times a week that jokes the Born to Run book has been good for his business the last several years.

and lots of injuries

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

There was some unpublished research on one of the running methods that was a fad about 10yr ago. Something like 30% higher injury rate in the first 3 or 6 months compared to those that didn't try to change their running form.

I see lots of runners every week. I can't tell you how many times I hear I'm a midfoot or forefoot striker. Then you watch them run and they heel strike.

There is a study looking at Boston marathon, Larsen or Larssen iirc showing something like 94% of all the runners where heel strikers. Kasmer found something like 93% at the Milwaukee marathon were heel strikers.

There are several studies out there showing that most people who think they midfoot or forefoot strike are actually heel strikers. People are extremely poor at knowing where they land and do a great job of mischaracterizing how they run.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta