That's what I would expect from a cyclist going to running. Too long early.

You're not 18 anymore, go down to 1 mile every other day for a few weeks and work up from there.

You're in the beginning stages of developing an overuse injury. You have the aerobic fitness, but not the physical fitness. You need to give your body time to build up the joint, tendon, and ligament strength needed to run.

Slow down, run less, do it frequently. Let your body adapt. Run at a pace you can talk. Run 4-6 days a week, more is better. Start with 10,20,30 minutes a day. Something like:

10, 20, 10, 20, 10, 30

Or even...

7, 14, 7, 14, 7, 21

Then add a minute or two per day per week.

Go carefully. A lot of middle-aged triathletes start the sport because they start running, injure themselves, so go and buy a bike and then figure they might as well start swimming too.

You will find that you have the aerobic capabilities to run a long way, at a fair pace, without too much problem. However, your connecting tissues and various body parts will NOT have developed the toughness to support a lot of this new activity. It takes a little while for them to toughen up. So go carefully!

You'll hear different advice like run long and slow, or short and fast, run every day or run day on/day off. There is no one way to stay uninjured. But there is a certain way to ensure that you do injure yourself and that is to do too much too soon.

Limit yourself to 3 days a week for a maximum of 15 miles a week for a while, then gradually creep it up. If you get niggles then take a couple of days off. Less is more.

Firstly - do you have the right shoes? Are they the right shoes for your stride pattern: over/under pronation, or normal? Are you running in cheap crap shoes from a supermarket or proper running shoes? Go to a running store and ask their advice, and read forums etc.

Also, knees are rarely a problem in themselves - They are almost always a victim of something else that makes them sore. Certainly 42 is not old, not even slightly and there is no reason why people should get sore knees, it's always a sign that something is wrong somewhere, maybe a muscle imbalance casuing the kneecap to track wrong. Are you over-striding, or do you wobble from side to side when you run?

Good luck.

I'm in exactly the same position, but iv started with a run/walk combo. Averages out to be about 7m/km pace. Started with 2.5km for two runs then have upped it to 3.5km for the last 4. Also slowly increasing the run length. Hope to be running the 3.5km with no walks by end of next week, then up that to 5km.

Im only running twice a week, with 5 bike sessions other days, either turbo or outdoors.

Once the season starts im going to knock it back to 1 run a week. hopefully this will make next years off season an easier transition and I should be able to do 2x10k next off season with limited problems.

So far iv got no aches and pains other than just the usual calve soreness. I'm using bare foot running shoes too.

Main aim for me is that its going to help with me dropping the 15kgs I need to lose!!!

I see a BarryP program there. Search for BarryP run program here, it really helped me increase my running volume, without getting injuries.

I'm in the same exact boat as you. 5000-7000 miles/year cyclist, occasional masters racer, for decades.
I started running last winter. Oh, I tried a few years prior to that but always ended up injured.
ILast year I started a 10 week "beginner's program" by a famous author in the running world (in french) who's also a spine and joints specialist (ostheopath) and followed it "to the letter". The progression was incredibly slow, starting with 30 seconds run intervals followed by 1 min. walks, only 4 times/session ! And the key was to run at least 4 times per week to help the body gain some adaptations. After 10 weeks, I could run 30 minutes. It was enough for me as I still had 3 to 6 hours of cycling, plus a bit of swimming in my weekly plan. Three weeks later I did a 15 km race without any problems !
Like Tom said earlier, your joints, cartiladge, tendons, muscle composition, foot tissues, etc. aren't adapted to running yet. This doesn't happen overnight.
If you're only having knee pains I would guess your running technique is already pretty good and you're "balanced". But you need to give your body time to adapt.


Louis :-)

Thanks very much for all your replies. I can see that I have misunderstood start easy and not too far for 30 minutes of running. D’oh.

Oh well back to the drawing board and some run/walk and hopefully more regular much shorter runs.

I have another question... to fit it in, do you guys think easy running for 10 minutes or so would be ok after cycling about 2 hours?

Get a couch to 5k program. It sound ridiculous but that's exactly whats happening. Your joints and soft bits in between are coming from the couch. Give them the respect and rest they deserve.

It would be less than ideal. When you are tired you will tend to run different, that can lead to injury, also. It would be better to run on fresh legs for a while, before adding in bricks (bike +run).

Also, start out by running on trails or treadmills, or padded track. That will help some. What shoes are you using?

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- Jordan

My Strava

Yes, you are correct. I was just keeping it simple. Link to Phase 1 is here:

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...0part%25201;#2548394

I run around the dirt and gravel football field near my home. Sometimes I run on the university track. I haven’t ran on pavement yet.

I got Nike Winflo 5 running shoes on advice from the local shop as I tend to overpronate and these felt the most comfortable. They seem to have a lot of cushion.

when i started running and my knees started to hurt, i was prescribed specific strength and mobility excercises. Obviously, you have an advantage with your bike fitness, but i guess specific strength training can set you up for (running) succes much better than, lets say, a 10' easy run off the bike. I remember doing lunges opened my eyes in terms of stability I lacked that is needed for running but not so much for cycling. My 2cts !

Was in the same boat as you. I'll echo what everyone here has said, start slow, work up. 10-15 minutes is plenty to start. If you wear a HR monitor, I'm guessing you'll see you HR is way higher comfortably running than cycling. Slow down until they are within 5-10 beats. It will be very slow running/Yogging/shuffling. That's ok though, as that is what you need to develop all the connective tissues as well run fitness.

If you want to run/ride on the same day, run before you ride. As someone else said, running after is probably going to do more harm than good for you right now.

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Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook

You won't be anywhere near your SS heart rate on the bike for a while. If I'm at 160bpm doing 270w then running I'm down around 140 if doing something quicker.

Intensity and too much volume too quick is your enemy.

I'd say depending on background the build of 7 minutes every day and 14 every other is a bit much on the conservative side.

You can do 5k every other day right off the bat if you're willing to bring the intensity way way down, and maybe even do Galloway run-walk method.

I'm talking, you probably could destroy your legs and crank out a 7:30/mi 5k time......but don't do it. Bring it down to 10 or 10:30/mi for those 5k's at first.

Same here, cyclist who runs a touch in the off season. It took me about 3 weeks to get up to 10k's at what I'd call a "solid tempo". Those 3 weeks were spent doing just 1mi reverse bricks for bike rides. Run a mile first, then bike workout. Then moved them up to 5k's. Then a 7k. Then the 10k.

It's super personal, so listen to your body. I personally think the whole run for 7 minutes a day is a bit silly unless you haven't ran for 10 years. Then maybe it isn't. But I'll run a very small amount in "bike race" season and every off season. And do a winter/spring duathlon for good measure.

If I'm going a new longer time/distance, I pretty much need to be nose breathing. I think my first few runs this off season, despite not following the super conservative distance/time method.........were nose breathing 120bpm affairs.

Yip spot on.

since no one else brought it up, I will - remember your knees bear all the weight of your body when you run - so do yourself a favor, if you're not 15% BF or less - try to get there. Amazing how injuries seem to vanish when one is not carrying 20lb dumbbells around the abdomen. Two best workouts for minimizing knee pain are (1) table pushaways and (2) fork putdowns. Do a lot of them.

Other than that, agree with others - run often, in short distances. Start at 10-15 miles per week for a month, then 12-20 miles a week, do 20 miles a week for 2 months or so, then see how you feel.

My knees feel better after cycling personally. You might find the same thing.

Also, consider trail running, beach running, and treadmill workouts as well for safe training.

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

Also, if your footwork is off (the way you’re striking the ground), it could be more detrimental to your knees, so make sure you have the right shoes and/or orthotics if you need them.

A lot of running shoe stores have a treadmill to video record your footwork and can recommend a solution.

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

good point.

On that note - read "born to run" before you step into any running store. A high offset shoe will create more knee wear - I think something close to zero drop +180 and higher cadence will leave you running for a long time to come!

Lots of good advice here. Following a program like Couch to 5k is probably the best idea, then following the "10% rule" after that. (It's not hard science, but it does work.) I religiously take an easy week every third or fourth week to let the aging body (I'm 50) recover.

When I tried to start running seriously in my late 20's, I had the same experience as you -- a few great runs and then serious knee pain. After a few weeks, I woke up one day almost unable to walk. I figured I wasn't a runner, was too old, running is bad for you , etc. It turns out I was just doing too much, too fast, causing inflammation and making it worse with each under-rested run.

As I approached 40, I decided to run one 10k before life effectively ended (age 40), so I followed a 10k training program to get from near-zero to 10k. It worked great, no knee problems, and I just kept running thereafter. I do marathons now, and my knees are probably in better shape than they were in my 20's. Patience, grasshopper.

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<The Dew Abides>

A good rule of thumb for you would be to approach the running as more therapy then actual exercise. So maybe you're going to just run 5 minutes then go do whatever it is you would normally do. Do some work on your mobility your ability to move from side to side your strength and flexibility all that kind of junk. Make sure you can balance on one foot.

Over time you can increase the amount of running little by little. If you can run off the road that is very helpful even if it's just running some laps around a little Park. Treadmills have a nice cushioned deck and you can quit as soon as you start to feel uncomfortable. Just be patient running can be sort of an achy sport.