Hello,

I'm interested in the answers you will have, as I have the same questions :-)

Personally, coming from 2 or 3 run per weeks, and before going to the full BarryP plan (6 run per week, 10x), I'm doing an intermediary step in a 4 run per week, 7x. Of course with very progressive increase of total weekly mileage, also when changing number of run (increased number of run = reduce individual run mileage).

I run now 2x 1x 3x 1x before possibly going to the "regular" 2x 1x 2x 1x 3x 1x.

How did you calculated your paces ?
I tried from the original BarryP post but the calculator was not available to me. Or did not understood how it work.

If the volume is getting excessive (and your plan would be excessive for me), I'd suggest tweaking the classic 1:2:3 BarryB proportions after a while.
So perhaps initially stick to 1:2:3 for short, medium, and long runs, but then, perhaps at week 15, hold the short and medium runs constant and continue to increase the long run distance.

I agree with this.

I also wouldn’t be too rigid on the paces. Barry P, to me anyways, is about safely building volume. If you feel good resist opening it up and going hard. Use those days to shed some fatigue. If you feel a bit rough, build into the run - you should loosen up and feel better after a few miles.

If you have some running background, I would probably peak at week #13 in your chart below, and then alternate a few weeks where you just increase the long run to 19/20 miles. Since you're going to be biking a ton (hopefully), I would also recommend cutting it to 5 days per week and skipping a short run. I did this a few years ago and it helped keep my sanity along with all of the other training and didn't affect run performance.

So week 13 would look like

5.6 - 11.3 - 5.6 - 11.3 - 16.9

And then week 14 would be

5.6 - 11.3 - 5.6 - 11.3 - 19

Not sure where your bike fitness is, but it's way more important to execute a successful marathon.

You could also increase less than 10% during the base period so you hit your peak around week 22-23 rather than week 14.

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Strava

I've been running on this plan or a plan very similar to it since 2008 when I was riddled with injury. I'll leave you with a few ideas.

1. Don't get so hung up on reaching that 20 mile long run distance in the structure of the entire week. You will still need to balance swim/bike.
2. Don't be afraid to add another run on your long run day. You can accomplish a lot by breaking that long run into two more manageable run's every other week or every two weeks.
3. I've seen several athletes KQ on the BP plan an only run 45-55 miles per week within the given 1:2:3 structure.

Good luck and don't over do it.

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Team Zoot Northeast

Generally, it works out to about 10k race pace + 1:30 - 2:00. Easy/Long run pace = 10k+1:30...recovery jog = 10K+2:00. But, the key point is to never do anything that compromises your ability to come back and do it again tomorrow. So, if you wake up the next day, and think "Whew! I'm a bit sore from that, not sure I'm ready to run again today." (but, you probably have that thought it French)...Then you are better off to slow down a little more.

As Desert Dude has said many times, "Its easy to run too fast, it's hard to run too slow." Whenever, I'm running and I feel bad about how slow I'm running I remind myself of this quote.

I also tend to run more by HR. The correct pace should be around high-z1 to low-z2. I tend to start low and let it slowly drift to low-z2 by the end of the run. But, that is caveated by all the usual HR based training limitations. Nevertheless, when in doubt slow down.

Hello -

I can't address all your questions right now, but I do want to quickly talk about your volume.

After 10-15 years of no running, you averaged 2.8 miles per week in 2017 and 9.6 miles per week in 2018.

I think your chart that has you going from 18 miles per week to 68 miles per week in 16 weeks is too optimistic. I'm not saying you can't do it. I just wouldn't create a plan like that with the high probability of not reaching your targets.

When building plans, I always try to make reasonable targets with some cushion, and if I am able to surpass that I do.

That said, you are doing the right thing by posting your plan and getting feedback! So kudos on that.

My advice would be to increase your volume much slower, especially since 2017 doesn't really count as any running, and 2018 is hardly a solid base for this type of volume.

I would recommend something closer to 15 miles per week for week 1 and 40 miles per week for week 16.

40 miles per week is no joke and would still be a huge success.

If your body feels good, by all means make adjustments to your plan as you go and scaled those numbers up a bit.

Here is one more piece of advice that works for me, and I consider myself a BarryP success.

Don't be a slave to your weekly or daily targets. Some days will call for a 5 mile medium run and you will feel like crap. Don't push yourself to get the 5 miles in. Some weeks will call for 30 miles per week and you will feel like crap. Don't push yourself to 30 miles. Some days you will have a 3 mile medium run and feel really great. Go ahead and run 6 miles if you feel good. Don't be a slave to the numbers or the short, medium, long ratios. Use those ratios as a guide but tweak them as needed! All that said, unless you are incredibly sick, run 6 days per week no matter what! If you have a cold, run a mile instead of the scheduled 5 miles. Don't start logging goose egg 0's.


TLDR;
Run 6 days a week. Listen to your body and adjust the distance of your runs as needed. You will be surprised what volume you can handle if you play it smart.

Good luck!!!

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"If it costs you 30 minutes at Maryland so what" -dwreal

Quote:

This season I am looking to complete my first full Ironman (Canada) at the end of July.

Without some solid bike training your run won't matter. Honestly as solid as your run is I'd be concentrating heavily on the bike. That course has a reputation.

Agreed.

OP: This plan sounds like way too much running for an Ironman. Sure, the run is supremely important, but you already have a solid run ability, if not necessarily a base at the moment. Your run will bounce back relatively quickly and I would be afraid that building to 70 mile weeks would take away too much time from critical bike training. You would be better served by building on the bike, and capping the run closer to 40-45 miles. Especially for a race that is known to have a rather challenging bike course.

Exactly my thoughts written out much more elegantly! I was really wondering what a reasonable volume progression would be on a year to year basis.
60 miles per week seems too aggressive, and it crossed my mind that 40-50 miles per week would perhaps be a good "plateau" to re-evaluate.

bluestacks867 wrote:

> Here is one more piece of advice that works for me, and I consider myself a BarryP success.
> Run 6 days a week. Listen to your body and adjust the distance of your runs as needed. You will be surprised what volume you can handle if you play it smart.

This is great advice and helps clarify question #2.

Looks like we now have Question/Concern #6
I've got a pretty good base for biking. Have been using TrainerRoad the last 2 years and seen continuous increase is strength and stamina.
Last year I had over 2k miles and about 60k feet of climbing.
I am currently on the TrainerRoad Full Distance Triathlon (Low Volume) and plan on continuing that through IM Canada (Full Distance Build, Full Distance Specialty).

Any feedback on that plan? I realize that IM Canada has about 8k of climbing on the course. I've pondered switching to Climbing Road Race specialty instead of Full Distance Tri specialty.

Thanks for the feedback everyone, it seems the feedback so far has addressed questions #1 and #2!!!
Overall, the BarryP program is about running by feel and feeling GOOD while running.
I will plateau around 40-50 miles and start to incorporate the "ultra long" run every other week.
Based upon how my body is handling this, I will tweak the weekly mileage.




Anyone have feedback on questions 3 through 5?


3) Phase 2
I'm particularly interested if/when I should move onto Phase 2 along with how to benchmark progress.


4) Warm-up and Cool-down


5) Benchmarking/Assessments
I realize that I could track my heart rate during the BarryP runs. However, how do I assess that I am getting faster? Would it be good to do an occasional 5k TT?

If your bike volume has been in the region of 2k miles/year, I'd definitely prioritise that over the run training. No point having a great run if you don't get there in good enough condition to us it. Long bike mileage is easier ont eh body and will reap rewards.

This may not be very helpful on its face, but my best Ironman run was when I used the BarryP program (with some modification) and basically just ran without much thought to pacing and volume outside of my long run. My paces got faster as I got stronger, but it was more of a natural thing and not forced. You just have to stick with it and just add a mile or two to you long run each week depending on how much time you have. I had healthy does of 30 minute runs, 60 minute runs and a long run that started at 10 miles and went up from there. Probably topped out at 18. The key was consistency. I just think the more you try to micromanage the bigger the chance that when things don't go as planned you'll find it hard to adjust on the fly and that is a recipe for inconsistency. Good Luck!!!!

2,000 miles is not much of a base. That's like 40 miles a week...or just over a third of the bike leg distance. I only race Oly distance, and I ride more than that. Again I don't do IM, but I'd think 8-10,000 miles a year would be a more appropriate base.

 
Thanks for your help

Just to be sure, are you talking in min/km or in min/miles ?

Currently I'm running mostly around the lower half of z2, around MaxFat, so I shall not be very far.

Being old and slow, recent to running, I'm very careful with volume increase, total volume, and intensity. And choice of shoes / orthotics. And when some pain is coming, slowing down. Solving pains sources one by one (the last two being knees, as I was not using them "straight" enough apparently).

#3: Don't. You don't have enough run base to justify any tempo---its only a risk of causing injury. Bike more...and just friggin' run easy.

#4: Just friggin' run easy. Count it all. Its all warm-up / cool-down / running.

#5: Um....no 5kTT (well, you can go do a race if you want). But, the answer is your training paces will be getting faster. Your run training pace will be your run race-pace...if you are lucky and pace the bike right.

Ah...sorry, I knew you were French---I should have converted. Those are min / MILE. Adjust for metric accordingly.

I'm also old, but not new to running...nor am I new to running pain. I used to run in the lower-half of Z2. I now run in the upper half of Z1...mostly. My previous AVERAGE HR (mid-point z2) is now my MAX-HR---and I try to limit that to just a minute or two per run (up a hill in the latter half or something).

Having seen far fitter folks (and certainly far FAR better runners than I) fail to finish on several iron distances, there was a common theme... exactly what you
Indicate . Ride your bike a lot more than you run. Those who DNF'd, DNF'd because their legs were shot after the 112 miles on the bike.
Those completers I know (older, fatter, and slower on the face of it than some fit quick runners - and I put myself in that OFS group) all finished (and not banging on the 17hr door) because they'd got comfortable putting in 100+ mile rides and getting to T2 in a not-too-knackered condition.

I also feel its a lot easier mentally by being well ahead of
the broom wagon after a good swim and the ride... I know I've got between 9 and 10 hours to get around the mara - That's enough time to to walk it all and still have spare.

Based upon feedback, here is my new "plan"



Based upon how the training is going, it can be revised but it is nice to have a goal to shoot for.

Just realized this is probably a bad metric because I do about half of my riding indoors on a trainer.
Accounting for the indoor riding that number would be closer to 5k miles.

Can you clarify what you mean by "your training paces will be getting faster"?
I thought the point of the BarryP was to limit your speed to the prescribed ranges (i.e. run slow).
When does one re-evaluate the training paces?

First of all, thanks for the feedback! Your opinions are greatly appreciated!!!
I've included my revised run plan above and now it seems I need to address the bike plan.


Any feedback on the plan above?

Would you state the same #3 and #4 advices for 70.3 races?