Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Argon E-118 still worth buying today?
Quote | Reply
Would have an offer for an Argon E-118 with Dura Ace DI2 and Zipp 404 front and rear for 2200€ (2500$).

Was thinking about the Canyon Speedmax CF DI2 but this is quite an interesting offer.
Mileage of the bike is about 500km, mostly on the trainer.

Obviously not a lot of integration like hydration and spare kit and stuff but that's also true for the Speedmax CF. Still seems like an awesome offer though.

Any opinions on the bike very appreciated, thanks!


Last edited by: cmart: Jan 13, 19 6:17
Quote Reply
Re: Argon E-118 still worth buying today? [cmart] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Model seems to be a 2012 and according to the seller it was bought in 2016.

Any opinions? Seems like an offer to me that can only be too good to be true. Just the 404s are nearly worth the money probably.
Does it matter that it's a 2012 model?
Quote Reply
Re: Argon E-118 still worth buying today? [cmart] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
not going to comment on the bike, but the 404s are not worth a whole lot. older model for zip, ie aluminum brake tracks, which many might prefer. you need to check if the hubs on those 404s are the recalled or replaced versions(i dont recall if it was just front or both)
Quote Reply
Re: Argon E-118 still worth buying today? [jeffp] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jeffp wrote:
not going to comment on the bike, but the 404s are not worth a whole lot. older model for zip, ie aluminum brake tracks, which many might prefer. you need to check if the hubs on those 404s are the recalled or replaced versions(i dont recall if it was just front or both)


Hmm.. but is there any real disadvantage to current models of the 404s? It's hard to find comparison data between new models and old ones. Maybe selling and replacing them for a newer wheelset would be an option.
Last edited by: cmart: Jan 14, 19 7:04
Quote Reply
Re: Argon E-118 still worth buying today? [cmart] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I have a 2012 E 118 and love it. I don't know what a 10 speed 6+ year old model is worth, tire clearance is somewhat limited, I have always run 23's. Will be racing her again at AmZof and IMLP this year.
Quote Reply
Re: Argon E-118 still worth buying today? [cmart] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Maybe worth $2k max. Wouldn't buy it for anything above that
Quote Reply
Re: Argon E-118 still worth buying today? [imswimmer328] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
imswimmer328 wrote:
Maybe worth $2k max. Wouldn't buy it for anything above that

Hmm.. really? That's surprising, thanks. I mean the frame and geometry I guess is quite okay still, even if it's an older model. Important of course fit-wise it should be okay. The Zipps despite being an older model as well but I guess they are still plenty fast.
Maybe going back to a new Speedmax CF DI2 with DT Swiss it is :)
Quote Reply
Re: Argon E-118 still worth buying today? [cmart] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I would check what generation Di2 the bike has. Di2 is not cheap to replace and some of the early generation Di2 stuff is pretty hard to find and had some issues with not being fully water tight. As the bike has hardly been ridden nothing should be worn out but if something fails you are looking a an expensive and potentially comprehensive replacement job.

Overall I think the price is too high. The wheels are good but worth no where near what moderns 404s sell for. Similarly the 10spd Di2 is good but only worth a fraction of modern 11spd Ultegra Di2.
Quote Reply
Re: Argon E-118 still worth buying today? [scott8888] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
scott8888 wrote:
I would check what generation Di2 the bike has. Di2 is not cheap to replace and some of the early generation Di2 stuff is pretty hard to find and had some issues with not being fully water tight. As the bike has hardly been ridden nothing should be worn out but if something fails you are looking a an expensive and potentially comprehensive replacement job.

Overall I think the price is too high. The wheels are good but worth no where near what moderns 404s sell for. Similarly the 10spd Di2 is good but only worth a fraction of modern 11spd Ultegra Di2.

I think I could get it for 2000€ (~2300$). The question is, even though the parts may not be worth as much as today's components, are they really any worse in racing? I mean if there's like 30 sec off on a 70.3 course a new bike costing 3000€ more is hard to justify. Equipment decisions are hard guys :)
Quote Reply
Re: Argon E-118 still worth buying today? [cmart] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I should probably also say that if i could get it for 2k I'd probably buy it. Not that it isn't a fast setup, just not worth the asking price since used bikes tend to have lots of additional hidden maintenance costs
Quote Reply
Re: Argon E-118 still worth buying today? [imswimmer328] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
imswimmer328 wrote:
I should probably also say that if i could get it for 2k I'd probably buy it. Not that it isn't a fast setup, just not worth the asking price since used bikes tend to have lots of additional hidden maintenance costs

Hidden maintenance costs... you mean like regular maintenance costs?

Cables, chain, maybe worn pulleys. Nothing that crazy to fix.
Unless you ride in the rain all the time, then all the bearings should be fine.
Quote Reply
Re: Argon E-118 still worth buying today? [imswimmer328] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Not that it isn't a fast setup, just not worth the asking price

That's my thought process. I'm not going to buy something that I don't think is faster for me just to save money. But I also won't drop a lot of money on something that might be fast, but I could never re-sell to get some money back.

I think those wheels (10 speed, old design) are not adding much value. Old 10 speed Di2 is not adding much value compared current mechanical Dura Ace or something. I don't know much about the frame in terms of holding value to be honest. $2500 just seems high. I would expect in the $1500 range. And I just base that off of selling my own bikes and realizing the market is always lower than what you initially think for used bikes.
Quote Reply
Re: Argon E-118 still worth buying today? [NordicSkier] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
More just hidden in that you don't think about them sometimes, or they aren't apparent when you go to look a bike over or in a 10 minute test ride. But basically those things, yeah.
Quote Reply
Re: Argon E-118 still worth buying today? [cmart] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
To answer your question that bike will be as fast if not faster on race day than any new €3k bike in the market as long as the fit is correct. So it’s not a bad choice but it may not be the best choice.

Part of the economic equation is location dependent. If you live in small Tri market you may struggle to find a better deal without spending a lot time and effort. However if you live in a big Tri market you will have a ton of options in that price range. I really struggle to get used Tri equipment in the North of England whereas it was readily available when I was in Miami.
Quote Reply
Re: Argon E-118 still worth buying today? [scott8888] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Good point. For buying my first triathlon bike I initially didn't want to make too much of a compromise. But I thought that this is an awesome bike, even compared with other new bikes without having to justify spending thousands for a bike that I actually use as a second bike to my beloved road bike.

The other option would be a Speedmax CF, which has it's own compromises, like the armpads being really wide which probably can be fixed quite easily and maybe not being really designed as a high end TT bike. I guess this can be fixed as well by having a good aggressive fit. So going for the Speedmax (and paying 2k - 2.5k€ more) might still be the better choice though.
Quote Reply
Re: Argon E-118 still worth buying today? [cmart] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
cmart wrote:
Hmm.. but is there any real disadvantage to current models of the 404s?


Rims are very narrow. Nothing like any current rims I know of. 10spd. The pair is worth a couple hundred $... if the hubs are in good shape.

You can get 7 year old bikes in good shape for cheap all day long. If the bike had 11spd components it might be worth >$2k but not as it sits.
Last edited by: rruff: Jan 14, 19 11:40
Quote Reply
Re: Argon E-118 still worth buying today? [rruff] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
rruff wrote:
cmart wrote:
Hmm.. but is there any real disadvantage to current models of the 404s?


Rims are very narrow. Nothing like any current rims I know of. 10spd. The pair is worth a couple hundred $... if the hubs are in good shape.

You can get 7 year old bikes in good shape for cheap all day long. If the bike had 11spd components it might be worth >$2k but not as it sits.

Thanks!
Quote Reply
Re: Argon E-118 still worth buying today? [cmart] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I bet those rims are faster than the modern ones at low yaw... they will just limit you to liw width... which will hurt comfort and crr.
Quote Reply
Re: Argon E-118 still worth buying today? [cmart] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Wading in as I'm still on a E-114 that I bought in 2012 ;-) Based on the half ironman i did 4 days ago then the bike didn't stop me posting a decent bike split and I went on to have a great run. Way way faster for both than I've done previously, so for someone not looking for a medal then it's all about the training, not the kit (I got 6th in AG / 50 in field for context with 3rd bike split).

I considered a new bike for IM this year, but as my current race wheels (S80s) are not 11 speed compatible, I'd need new ones, which then means I'd really want to buy disks so I've the option of using on my road bike for flat races. Not wanting to get into the debate on disks or not, just highlighting the 10speed>11 speed hub issue.

Also, I recently had two issues. First, I wanted to get a new dropout which initially seemed impossible, but then in the end Argon18 and their Aus/NZ distributor sorted me out very well. Second issue was about fitting hydration to the E-114 bars. Let's just say that was a nightmare due to the bars being too big a diameter, their not being the height that modern bars have, and just some random PITA stuff that is only an issue because I'm possibly the only person in the world trying to fit new kit onto a 8 year old frame / cockpit design and so nothing current and off the shelf is tested against it.

I recently upgraded my road bike as trying to keep my very serviceable but 9-speed on the road was getting really hard. No spare parts, can't mix with 10 or 11 speed for a lot. So if something does break then you are not going to be able to pop into a local shop and expect to grab something to be able to race in 2 days time. So you are always kinda living on the edge.

Someone above totally nailed it. You're not going to be giving anything up speedwise, especially if you take 10% of the money saved and spend on physio, coaching or half a dozen pilates classes. But you do need to be prepared for a fair bit of time in the future browsing obscure websites for parts, and I'm talking wheels and drivetrain here. The frame shouldn't be a worry at all for many many years.

Oh, one other thing, the E-114 I've got is an absolute pain for tyre clearance, and worse in New Zealand where we have awful chipseal roads. So being limited to 23mm tyres is an issue, and I've had a few occasions where I've ended up with a stone stuck between tyre and frame requiring a fairly rapid stop to extract it before wrecking tyre and or frame.
Quote Reply
Re: Argon E-118 still worth buying today? [cmart] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
cmart wrote:
Good point. For buying my first triathlon bike I initially didn't want to make too much of a compromise. But I thought that this is an awesome bike, even compared with other new bikes without having to justify spending thousands for a bike that I actually use as a second bike to my beloved road bike.

The other option would be a Speedmax CF, which has it's own compromises, like the armpads being really wide which probably can be fixed quite easily and maybe not being really designed as a high end TT bike. I guess this can be fixed as well by having a good aggressive fit. So going for the Speedmax (and paying 2k - 2.5k€ more) might still be the better choice though.


I had both a 2012 Argon E118 and first gen 10spd DuraAce Di2. Not on the same bike tho. Both are A+.

The rear brake can be an issue, but I put the springs on max and that fixed it. My cable shrouds were good but not that flexible. The E118 is a great riding bike with its own personality - like a dog that is tugging at the chain. It doesn't like to go slow. It's not an "easy" riding or beginner bike due to the flat narrow bars. However they are strong and come race day, it's able to go all out. I had SRAM red mech and tubulars. I used it in sprints and always posted top 5 even going fastest split one year. With a rebuilt Zipp 808 and 900 Disc I sold it for $4000 CAD.

I loved that vintage of Di2. Shimano put their heart and soul into that first product it was a work of art. The mechanical bits are sublime. The battery lasts forever. Yes the trunk cable was an issue for me (I got the groupset used) - but I repaired it. Parts are hard to find that is true as well, but I have seen them here and there. It worked flawlessly for the 3 or so years I used it.

Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com
FM Sports: http://www.jagersport.com/
Last edited by: SharkFM: Jan 14, 19 21:13
Quote Reply
Re: Argon E-118 still worth buying today? [cmart] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
There are QC issues with those bikes and associated CS issues with the company. If it's not subject to any warranty and you're comfortable assuming the risk of being bitten by QC issues, ought to be fine.

Eliot
blog thing - strava thing
Quote Reply
Re: Argon E-118 still worth buying today? [cmart] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks guys for all the opinions here, what an awesome community! Given that this is my first tri bike there are no easy decisions.
For now I'm not gonna go with this bike and remain searching for a tri bike at about 4-5k€ tops. Probably a Speedmax CF DI2 and DT Swiss since there are not a lot of good used offers around which would get me a pretty decent bike I guess.
Quote Reply
Re: Argon E-118 still worth buying today? [renorider] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
renorider wrote:
There are QC issues with those bikes and associated CS issues with the company. If it's not subject to any warranty and you're comfortable assuming the risk of being bitten by QC issues, ought to be fine.

Interested to hear the detail on this. Doesn't match with my experience and so as it stands I'd be favouring another argon come replacement time. Hence why I'm interested to hear if I have been an outlier that's got lucky.
Quote Reply
Re: Argon E-118 still worth buying today? [Duncan74] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Maybe you got lucky or maybe I got unlucky :)

It's now been a long time, so please forgive my memory, but some aspects of the front end were really poorly designed. There were other members of the community that experienced bad customer service, but I think there's been a change of distributorships or something since then. But for me, the failure-prone parts paired with anecdotal CS issues were too scary. Either one on its own would have been fine.

Eliot
blog thing - strava thing
Quote Reply
Re: Argon E-118 still worth buying today? [renorider] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Fair enough. i remember the initial build of the 114 front end wasn't without a fair amount of swearing. Not helped by the lack of printed instructions or reference to their being a PDF on the website (ok, but in 2012 it wasn't so common, you still got install CDs for software).

The CS is mainly handled by the region distributors - so there is the potential for that to both change and be variable, so another good point.
Quote Reply