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Are failing electronics common?
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For those that are using electronics for training and races, how often to they fail? I'm talking electronic shifting, watches, powermeters, etc. I feel like I hear about failures a lot more than I would think. So far 3 of the pro's in Kona have mentioned failures during the race. To me that seems like a lot considering these guys have the best of the best checking over their bikes before race day to make sure everything working properly. Are failures pretty common on these products?
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Re: Are failing electronics common? [FuzzyRunner] [ In reply to ]
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I have heard of a couple Slowtwitchers having failures as well.
Was starky on a mechanical build at Kona?
Will Sebastian be next year?
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Re: Are failing electronics common? [FuzzyRunner] [ In reply to ]
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Considering it rained the night before Kona they will be a lot higher.

I had DI2 fail before the World 70.3 in 2016 and a friend at IM Japan a few years ago now and at both races the Shimano mechanic that was there couldn't work it out at the time. Apart from that timely incident I have never had an issue with my DI2 on my tri bike or eTap on my road. I am a little more wise to issues and carry spares for race day...
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Re: Are failing electronics common? [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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Shambolic wrote:
Considering it rained the night before Kona they will be a lot higher.

I had DI2 fail before the World 70.3 in 2016 and a friend at IM Japan a few years ago now and at both races the Shimano mechanic that was there couldn't work it out at the time. Apart from that timely incident I have never had an issue with my DI2 on my tri bike or eTap on my road. I am a little more wise to issues and carry spares for race day...[/quote

What ended up being the part that failed?
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Re: Are failing electronics common? [Fishbum] [ In reply to ]
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Yea I feel like I hear about these failures a lot more than I should. Obviously the main ones you hear about are the ones that occur before or during a race but does that mean they happen more often and you only hear about the ones that effect race day? Just seems like some very expensive equipment that isn't that reliable when you want it most.

Sebi's pretty much put him dead in the water. Obviously he was at least able to remedy the shifting issue but not before damaging other equipment.

Russell's seemed to be something that happens more often. Powermeter craps out (reading way off, doesn't sync with display, etc.) but that doesn't actually effect movement of the bike so more of a big inconvenience.

Lucy's bike computer freezing definitely sucks. No power, speed, heart rate, time. Pretty much flying blind for someone that I'm sure using those metrics a lot during the ride. I am surprised that she didn't have everything connected to her watch as well so she'd at least have something to pace off of.
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Re: Are failing electronics common? [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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I agree that rain and electronics never mix well but should that be something you need to worry about when paying top dollar for the equipment? These guys are getting the best of the best (I assume) and still getting issues. I could see the lower end products lacking build quality or maybe skimping on waterproofing but when they're in the 4 digits I would expect to be able to submerge that thing in the ocean and it still work. Definitely don't expect everything to work flawlessly but this definitely doesn't seem like a rare occurrence.
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Re: Are failing electronics common? [FuzzyRunner] [ In reply to ]
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Short answer: yes.

Long answer: it depends. Exposure to elements, and droppage even with no visible damage to the case, and use of wireless signals for mission critical functionality (like shifting) makes the failures a lot more common. Sometimes they are failures and sometimes they are "failures" in a sense that if you gave it to an engineer who designed it they'd recognize what's up with it and make it work in 30 seconds without tearing it open and fixing the guts. But we can't do that, not in a race, not by the side of the road, and sometimes we don't care to troubleshoot when all we wanted was 2x20 in Zwift before dinner.
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Re: Are failing electronics common? [Fishbum] [ In reply to ]
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My failure was the junction/charge box. Turns out it appears leaving it out overnight moisture condensed in there draining the battery. Shimano gave me a new battery the morning of the race but it didn't work and I found out later at the bike shop when on the laptop and doing some investigation that my box was being phased out by Shimano and the new internal battery they gave me didn't work as all new updated software from a certain date on internal batteries would no longer function with the box. It took me buying two new internal batteries to work that out as the old internal battery but of an earlier software rev would still work. The box would work fine on an external battery as Shimano weren't blocking them.
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Re: Are failing electronics common? [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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I'm actually contemplating going back to Mechanical....
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Re: Are failing electronics common? [Fishbum] [ In reply to ]
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No way I could never go back... It is just too much of a pleasure to ride. My issue was a one off and I learnt a lot. I now have the spares I need and I wrap any of the critical pieces in plastic in transition to minimise my risk.
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Re: Are failing electronics common? [FuzzyRunner] [ In reply to ]
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I rented a roadie with etap for SOS this year. Worked great in the LBS parking lot. Bike sat in the car the next 12 hours until race morning. When the rear derailleur suddenly decided to stop working. Big ring would shift, so I had the option of a 52/28 or 36/28. On a mostly flat course with shallow descents. It wasn’t absolutely horrible

Had I had any knowledge about how to deal with it (I subsequently heard a lithium battery?) or the LBS set me up with a spare, I could’ve dealt with it

I’d have a hard time justifying electronic shifting personally (would be $1k plus to switch to electronic per my LBS)
Last edited by: ChrisM: Oct 16, 18 22:12
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Re: Are failing electronics common? [ChrisM] [ In reply to ]
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I saw a GCN video that suggested you take the batteries off when the bike is in a vehicle... in case a shifter button is accidentally pressed against a seat or some other surface since that would cause it to send signals to the deraillieurs and cause battery drain.

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2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)
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Post deleted by windschatten [ In reply to ]
Last edited by: windschatten: Oct 16, 18 22:31
Re: Are failing electronics common? [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
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Lucy Charles cycling computer was dead when she hopped on the bike. 112 miles of “yep.. this feels about right”.
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Re: Are failing electronics common? [CarbonPothole] [ In reply to ]
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CarbonPothole wrote:
Lucy Charles cycling computer was dead when she hopped on the bike. 112 miles of “yep.. this feels about right”.

Train by numbers, race by feel.

Trust me I’m a doctor!
Well, I have a PhD :-)
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Re: Are failing electronics common? [PhilipShambrook] [ In reply to ]
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PhilipShambrook wrote:
CarbonPothole wrote:
Lucy Charles cycling computer was dead when she hopped on the bike. 112 miles of “yep.. this feels about right”.


Train by numbers, race by feel.

This.

My best bike leg ever was IM Wales, where I pretty much never looked at my computer other than for time (for eating/drinking.) and post race showed my avg power didn't fade at all.
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Re: Are failing electronics common? [FuzzyRunner] [ In reply to ]
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I have Campagnolo electronic shifting since 4 years. In the beginning my battery drained fastly. I presumed, after checking the internet, that it could be the battery being bad. I sent it in to Campagnolo, got a new battery. It was a hassle to change the battery because the cables which come out of it disappear in the basebar and frame.

But since then it works perfect and I also ride the tt a lot also in training. I must say I would like to miss the electronic shifting: it is perfect and defined. At least with 12-29. If I mount 12-25 I do not get the shifting right between 17-18-19.

I read that Shimano also had problems with bad batteries.
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Re: Are failing electronics common? [FuzzyRunner] [ In reply to ]
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In every day use when your bike is nicely stored in your garage and your charger(s) is sitting by your desk, they're very rare. Race day massively increases the chances of problems:
- You're more likely to forget to charge something with everything that is going on around you
- You're on the move a lot, so easy for a fully charged head unit to get turned on in your backpack and run the battery down
- Stripping down your bike to fly with it can cause issues. I've only had 3 Di2 issues in 2+ years of using it - 2 were loose connections after flying with the bike, 1 was a dead battery after the bike was transported in a car where the shifter was pushed up against something and constantly shifting back and forth
- Your bike is being left in all kinds of places (hotel, airport, transition, race check-in) where it's much more likely to get knocked or damaged than when it's safely in your garage
- Minor problems are exacerbated by it being a race. If I'm training and my power meter doesn't connect, I can take a few minutes to unpair and re-pair it. Or if my head unit is taking a few minutes to find a satellite I can wait. Racing through T1 you just have to get on the bike and hope you can sort the problems once you're moving which is much tougher to do
- In the case of pros at Kona, they're quite likely to be on new bikes, which also increases the chances of problems. I'm guessing all those shiny new Shivs hadn't seen much outside use as they were under wraps
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Re: Are failing electronics common? [FuzzyRunner] [ In reply to ]
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I've had a couple of races this year, where my PM has not re-connected with my Edge 520 after going to sleep during the swim. Luckily my 920xt did pick it up first time it happened, as did my new 735xt in my last race. Not sure what's going on with the 520, as I never had this problem with the 500.

29 years and counting
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Re: Are failing electronics common? [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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so do you think most of the issues are user error instead of a malfunction of the unit itself?

Are the things you mentioned common knowledge and people just ignore it or are they more of "tips and tricks" you get from reading forums, etc.?

I don't have anything other than a garmin watch but have always thought about upgrading some gear. The expense is really what keeps me from buying these things and hearing about the issues people have makes me really think twice about putting money down on something that isn't reliable when I would want it most.
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Re: Are failing electronics common? [FuzzyRunner] [ In reply to ]
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Not just error user, more a combination of factors each of which increase the risk of problems and a race environment where you don't have the luxury of time to sort them out as you would in training.

I wouldn't let it put you off buying tech if you want to. The main purpose of this stuff is to help you train smarter and more effectively so you're toeing the start line in better shape anyway, so even if it goes wrong on the day you should still race better than if you'd never bought it. E.g. I train with power but monitor HR and RPE as well, and by training with all 3 I have a pretty good idea how they intersect. So if power and/or HR go wrong on the day I'm still in better shape and should be able to place myself better than if I'd only been training with RPE.
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Re: Are failing electronics common? [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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I have di2 and could not go back. I did have a strange battery drain last weekend. The battery was 100% then somehow on the 4 hour car ride the battery dropped to 50%. I recharged it that night back to 100%. The bike then sat outside over night at Ky ironman and was still at 100% Sunday morning.
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Re: Are failing electronics common? [FuzzyRunner] [ In reply to ]
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YEEESSSS. Electronics fail commonly, and often at inopportune racing times. Not making this up one bit!

Note that 'fail' doesn't mean just that the electronic goes kaput due to some hardware failure.

I'll bet by farrrrr, the most common electronic 'failures' for AG triathletes that are super common (I've done 'em all!):

1. Setting Garmin to 'Multisport' on race day, being excited to have your great bike split, and then while you're on the bike, you inadvertently hit the 'lap' button on your Garmin 920xt, meaning it thinks you've ended your bike already. And now you have no idea how far you are from the end of the bike leg except for the few signs on the course, and you'll probably have to mess with your watch while riding to get it going back to the bike mode. Hopefully the newer Garmins have solved this problem, but it was a constant issue with the 920-era ones.

2. Powermeter or HRM fails to pair up with your device after the swim. Dunno if it's the huge number of competing signals, but I've lost my power data on half my races, despite being 'paired' with my device pre-swim. If you race with power, this is seriously annoying. (I still had good races without the power numbers - all this hype about not being able to race by RPE if you're a power-guy is total BS!)
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Re: Are failing electronics common? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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I like to use my Garmin 520 to display my gears while I'm riding.

I don't know if anyone else has experienced this, but during a torrential downpour earlier this season, the gear display started failing (just the display, not the actual etap shifting which is fine). Ever since that day, the gear display has been intermittent - it will show the shift (sometimes with a slight lag of a few seconds) and then it will disappear and reappear on the display at random times. I don't think there are connection issues - the 520 picks up the etap at the start of very ride very consistently, yet the gear display comes and goes. Before that downpour, it was never an issue... the gear display was responsive and was always showing. It may just be a coincidence that the issue started after the rain, but I doubt it.

If anyone has ideas about how to fix this I'd appreciate it!
Last edited by: blayze: Oct 17, 18 10:25
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Re: Are failing electronics common? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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To me, folks doing traithlon are probably the ideal scenario of usage in a competitive environment short of never leaving the house.

I mean, they wash/transfer and mess with bikes daily on grand tours. Not to mention crashing them and generally being rough on equipment. Lots of those guys are running electronic group sets, and all are running computers and meters. You don't hear too often about failures.

When you do, it's in a break, lead group, or person in contention to win something. Then everyone complains.

If there are bikes using it and surviving Paris Roubaix, hell of the north, it can survive a triathlon.

I wonder what % of these notable failures are ones that would have happened no matter what, versus ones happening right at this event.

Pointing to last minute changes versus the norm that maybe messed up something. Maybe new and unfamiliar equipment that wasn't setup properly out of the bike box from the flight.

The advantages of having shifting in both the skis and pursuit bar is important. Or hoods/drops/bar tops for a roadie.
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