I think it is time to face facts. There are more drugs in sports than we are willing to believe and we won't catch enough of the users to make any real diffrence. Face reality and legallize it.

"Ok, lets make drunk driving legal because all the drunks are doing it anyway."

A drunk driver can kill me and doped up athlete only kills themselves.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

A drunk driver can kill me and doped up athlete only kills themselves

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Yeah I know, it just annoys me that they can't be competitive without them. I had a blast watching TDF the last couple of years, I don't know if I will even care this year.

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Jim

**Note above poster works for a retailer selling bikes and related gear*

I know it sucks for a lot of people but drugs are the same as training and the same as equipment. Drugs are not evil but cheating with them is. To reach the level of a top athlete a lot of people do use drugs. I know, I know, I know anyone can draw up a list of people they think are clean but how do we really know?

We can either keep kidding ourselves or just face reality.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

OK then where do we draw the line? Why should I or any other athlete have to take harmful PED’s just to compete at a high level? I respect your view because in many ways it does make the most sense and but there is still much more to be done before we just surrender to the cheats.

Baseball is such a joke; their PED policy is virtually nonexistent.

Dave from VA

"Why should I or any other athlete have to take harmful PED’s just to compete at a high level? "

You do not have the right to do whatever you want. If you are not willing to take the dope to be the best then you need to find something else to be best at. No one is owed a living. If we are I want my marketing job for a bike company.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

This guy wrote a song for you Tibbs. According to him, doctors, lawyers, judges, and even birds are on something.

It gave him some great abs.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

Legalize drugs - huge mistake.

Baseball will change. Their back is against the wall, facing another 1994 -both sides (owners & players) will change.

Even though it looks as steroids has played a part in the performance records, I wonder if they would have been broken anyway, just maybe by not such a great number. Baseball is still a skill-based sport. Yes, strength has to do with it but you still need the skills that steroids cannot enhance. ANY MLB player can hit a homerun. I have trained players that weighed about as much as I do, about the same strength, and have hit multiples in a game.

I just think the testing needs to be ramped up - and everytime there is something out there that has a mask, then find it and build a test to prove it. We have the knowledge, use it instead of ignoring it.

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maylene jackson, cscs
http://www.kidsintraining.org

That "something" is you and me. We all wear masks of varying degrees in various circumstances. Even our sub-conscious is masked by our conscious. Shall we put our efforts into removing others' masks, or our own? I believe the latter choice is the best way for us to receive "the knowledge", which will in turn allow us to see through the guise of others.

I watched it. A very revealing look at what is going on in sports. Anybody still think Marion Jones is innocent after that show?

No, I don't think Marion is innocent, and I don't think anyone is any more.

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Jim

**Note above poster works for a retailer selling bikes and related gear*

mask, as in a masking agent that hides the drug in tests

I do not think "we" have a mask in terms of hiding what is going on. Most of us just don't want to believe it, I do not refer to that as a mask though.

If everyone were allowed to take PEDs then the game would be ridiculous and kids would be even more ruined then they are now.

We know of it, have proof of it, now get off the pot (so to speak) and do something about it.

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maylene jackson, cscs
http://www.kidsintraining.org

i think steroids have played a HUGE part in baseball in the last few years. I agree that it does take a lot of skill and experience to be a good hitter, but if you then throw a potent steroid regime on top of it, the results turn the stats into a joke. The New York Times (registration required) has a very nice graph showing Bonds' HR production going thru the roof after hooking up with BALCO. The players are not naive, they know that MLB management doesn't have the cojones to address the issue, so they are simply taking advantage of a useful adjunct. I predict that if the league does go after the problem aggressively, we will see the stats drop precipitously, as well as the players uniform sizes.

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Tony Verow MD
Durango, CO 81301
Averow@bresnan.net

"You do not have the right to do whatever you want. If you are not willing to take the dope to be the best then you need to find something else to be best at."



I bet the "clean" women who were destroyed by Marion Jones at the 2000 Olympics would disagree with you Tibbs.

Dave from VA

Face reality and legallize it...A drunk driver can kill me and doped up athlete only kills themselves.


Tibbsy, you really surprised me here. Doped up athletes would/are also role models to the millions of kids striving to be like their sports heroes. Suppose your son or daughter showed promise of becoming a major league player or pro cyclist? What do you do then? Do you encourage them to pursue their dream, cautioning them against the dangers of drug use, knowing all the while that they'll have to take them to make it? Or do you just try to discourage them from their dreams and goals altogether? Or do you just ride the wave, accepting that they will use drugs with all of the inherent dangers?

I admit, it is not an easy situation...and includes all sorts of attendant moral and ethical compromises.

"The players are not naive, they know that MLB management doesn't have the cojones to address the issue...."

Incorrect. MLB does have the cojones. Bud Selig (and other sports' heads) see the handwriting on the wall. But there is the *minor* stumbling block called the players' union. The union stands in the way of progress on this issue. There are other ways to introduce excitement into the game(s), but the respective sports' players unions are opposed to nearly all of them.

How about we legalize the drugs? Then let folks do what they want. We will be in for a few really fast years. Then, the shit will hit the fan. Folks will take more and more to stay on top. Then some of our "great" athletes will die. All it will take is a Tour winner or a Hawaii winner to die from a drug induced heart attack while being covered on national television to wake people up. Extreme? Maybe, but I'm not sure of a better alternative.

One other problem is who we deem as heroes in this country. Just b/c someone can ride fast up a mountain does not a hero make. Character in the face of adversity is what heroes are made of.

Of course, I don't have the answers here. Just sharing my 2 cents.

Jeremey

Character in the face of adversity is what heroes are made of.


I could not have said it better myself.

For the most part, the truth does come out. Cheaters are discovered and records are tainted. As long as there is a way to hide, there will be people to take advantage of situations.

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maylene jackson, cscs
http://www.kidsintraining.org

Of course heroes are in the eyes of the beholder. But I surely remember my youth (some 18 years removed at this point). Many of my "heroes" back then were sports players. Many of my children's heroes are likewise sports players of various types. Their notions of heroes will change, just like mine have. The fact is that these folks are seen and billed as heroes/idols/role models by a good portion of society.

Have we already forgotten the tragedy of Marco Pantani? Is Tom Simpson a ghost? How about Ken Caminiti? To my mind, legalizing drugs hoping the athletes will eventually go too far is a bit like grabbing my son's hand and slapping it on a hot burner to reinforce my statement that burners are hot and will hurt him.

I, too, don't have all the answers, but I don't believe that removing standards is the way to induce virtuous behavior.

The problem is that it is not only the hero having a heart attack on the podium that is the problem. The problem is that these drugs filter down.

In my personal experience I know a mess of a human being that took steroids to make him competitive at HS football. Things started falling apart for him when he through a sofa at his mother. The steroids didn't make him a star, just good enough to compete with the other steroid pumped up losers on the team. The coach knew about and encouraged the steroid culture, though he didn't supply the drugs or participate directly.

These are the lives that are being destoryed, and by the hundreds.

Whats worse is that steroids, drugs or whaterver they are using is far more rampant amongst our kids these days. Just take a look at some of the high school games and you see kids all bulked up just trying to gain an adge and look good for some college recruiter, plus the peer pressure to take them is amazing. These kids are taking this stuff and ruining their bodys for life and they dont care at this point and neither do their parents. That is the real crime, they see al their idols on TV and they want to be just like them, drugs and all. What a shame.

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I have horrible back problems but I have zero problems staying in an aero position for 180k. Why? Because I ride steep and because I train regularly in that position. Simple as that.....Gerard

I respectfully disagree...the "four strikes and you're out" rule that currently exists is a joke. IF MLB management was serious they would risk a lockout season season and take a stand on this issue. As I read it, the commisioners office is basically a pawn of the fatcat owners, and is , as you say significantly hamstrung by the players union. What will happen to the sport when a large chunk of the top players are found to be cheaters ? I think MLB risks going the way of the NBA, and alienating a lot of their fans unless they get aggressive with this issue immediately.

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Tony Verow MD
Durango, CO 81301
Averow@bresnan.net

"How do you know they were clean?"

Well, I guess that just brings us back to square 1. If you assume the each of the eight finalists were doped then perhaps Tibbs has a point, but if you were totally clean (work with me) and came in 2nd or even worst 4th in the 2000 Olympics then your pissed off right now and rightfully so.

Dave from VA