I've been taking it for about 2 years. I have a knee cartilidge problem. My knee was stiff with or with or without biking and I had given up bike racing because of the knee problem. Since I've been taking it I haven't had any more stiffness. When I 've run out a couple of times I have felt a twinge if I stopped taking it for a few days. Whether it's a placebo or not, it works for me.

By all means try it Vita-man. I significant part of my chiro practice is with older people with arthritic type conditions. Quite a number of them swear by the stuff.

You should also investigate other areas causing the knee pain. Perhaps custom orthotics for the feet or adjust the cleats for the bike?

I certainly won't guarantee that it'll work for you, but I think it works for me . I started taking it about 2 1/2 months ago, and started seeing results after about 4 weeks, with real improvement after about 7-8 weeks.

One of my friends swears by it too, and he'll tell you that he thinks it saved him from another knee surgery.

---

Ben H

Christian, Husband, Father, Ranger, Triathlete

I have been taking it since Jan 2002. I have PFS in my right knee and started taking Glucosamine Chondroitin to help me. I take the 1200/1500 dosage, usually Spring Valley, it is a WalMart and is the best value. I have read that you should take G & C together.

I dont know if it works but I do know that I have not had any knee pain in the past year. Ill keep taking it beacuse I have read good things and I want to keep training and racing throughtout my life.

I think of it as an investment in my future.

Let's see... I think I'm going on about 6 years now. Hd some problems with my knees, varying from PFS to just general aches. I have some history of arthritis in my family, so I figured it was cheap insurance. I've only had occasional twinges from form breaks when squatting, but they're short-lived. Otherwise I'm pain-free for 6 years.

As an additional note -- there are some issues with diabetic individuals. Something you might want to look into before starting supplementing with glucosamine.

---

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

I was sponsored by a supplement manufacturer a couple of years ago, and they happened to make a G&C supplement. Coincidentally, I developed a pretty severe overuse injury in my knee at that time, and started using the stuff despite my scepticism (hey- it was free!) Wow.
Repeat - WOW!

Amazing results. Couldn't ride without it, I could after I started taking it. The pain just simply went away.I managed to glom about a case of it when the team folded. I still have some...

which brings me to last season: I tore pretty much my entire kneecap off in a 'cross race - picture me lying on the ground with the bones sticking out of a giant hole - removed the bursal sac completely, total hamburger. Yuck. Was told I would quite likely not be able to run again.

1 whole day in the ER (3 hours debriding, anyone?)
1 whole month flat on my back in bed (had to have help peeing, for christsakes.)
1 more month with no training at all, leg in a brace up to my hip.
Lots of G&C, LOTS of acupuncture.
LIVED in the weightroom for 2 months...
1 year later, full recovery, no apparent problems. Best 'cross season ever, and we will see how the running goes (I didn't feel confident enough to do ny real distance all last year - maxed out at about 60 min. runs.)

Factors for positive outcome:
1: amazing ER doc. ex-military trauma doc. I lucked out.

2: Acupuncture. Tangible, amazing aid to recovery. 15+ degree range of motion improvement after 1st treatment.

3: glucosamine/chondroitin supplementation. Seems to provide lubricity to the joint - It was very noticeable how much "stickier" my knee was without it during recovery (I stopped taking it for a few weeks during recovery, and definately felt the difference. I don't seem to need it right now, and am not currently taking it.)

PT. The weight room is really an excellent tool.

my 2+ cents.

MH

---

Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/

Chrondomalacia, degererative arthritis, low-grade pain when running, most I would do was a 10K. Starting taking it about 4 yrs ago, and 3 months after I started did a 1/2 marathon. It's kept me in the game ever since. Take 1500 mg/day and is recommended by my orthopaedic surgeon,

I've taken it for quite a while. A family practice doctor suggested I also add MSM to the regimen. I did. I used to hurt alot in many joints, and now I don't. BUT, I no longer lift weights much at all. Just swim, bike and run. I don't know if it is lack of lifting or the supplementation, but, I'm not going back to lifting nor stopping the supplementation to find out.

Interestingly, two local doctors just had a TV spot on regarding food allergies and joint pain. Seems one of them had a high school football knee injury that caused him to be almost crippled by the time he was 35...degenerative changes showed up on xray, knee replacement was recommended. The problem with that is the subsequent multiple replacements that would be required in someone that young.

He heard about food allergies causing inflammatory illnesses, asked the local allergist about it...the allergist said it was nonsense. He didn't quit exploring the possibility and found out he was allergic to milk proteins. Cut out all dairy. Today, at 62, he runs, bikes, and has "normal" xrays of that knee and is pain free.

They said there were a few labs around the country now that will test your blood...put a few drops on various slides with the food antigens on the slides...they watch for white blood cell degranulation which signals a possible allergic reaction, then recommend dropping those foods from your diet.

These guys are saying several autoimmune diseases (lupus, fibromyalgia, arthritis, etc.) may actually be either caused by or worsened by undiagnosed food allergies.

Just reporting what they had on the TV show...don't know any more about it.

---

Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

I have been taking the glucosamine in the liquid form and definitely notice when I start slacking and forget to take it. I had ACL replacement surgery 8 years ago along with tearing my MCL and the lateral meniscus in 3 places, had about 40% of it removed. Started out with the Glucosamine tablets but learned the hard way I am VERY sensitive to sulfates (elevated Blood Pressure, headaches, hives, etc.)

So, as mentioned in other posts, can't say it is a wonder cure alll for all joint maladies but it seems to help things out for me.

Yep, used it some 10 yrs. ago and worked just fine... but, stopped once the newer NSAID's came out... it's cheaper for me than GS (amazing thing these prescription drug cards).

At any rate, you might want to read this latest research regarding GS.... It's very interesting. Seems it may have some unexpected and not so good side effect. BTW, it's not some crap printed by some nut who has to find something wrong with everything. It was very recently published by John Hopkin's (you can also find other really good information by doing a search of Glucosamine of this sight - or go http://www.slowtwitch.com/...ing=joe%20moya;#4806 ).

GS - triggers insulin resistance - John Hopkins sight below:

http://www.johnshopkinsinternational.com/...lin%20resistance.asp

Finally, what I don't understand is why you would want to use a drug to reduce pain that is obviously indications of repetitive use injury. It may not be just "sore-knee-itus". Most likely, you'll start using GS and find out it works well as an anti-inflamatory only to ignore the basic problem... over use brought on by changes the body goes through as it ages. Knee pain (specially involving the Patella) can be more serious and permanent than you seem to realize. If it is serious and caught early enough, it's not a problem... unfortunately, most don't take it serious enough until it is a permanent problem.

When is the last time you've checked your bike fit? If it's been years, you might want to reduce your knee(s) problem with changes in your biking technique and/or bike fit. In short, take the pressure off the knee - that will come far closer to solving the real problem. A better and more likely remedy to your knee problem.

FWIW Joe Moya

Joe, you MUST be extra CAREFUL with those NSAIDS and dehydration...like sometimes happens with big workouts/races. The possibility of renal damage, I mean SERIOUS renal damage is real.


The Johns Hopkins summary from your link:

"In the body, sugar (glucose) is changed into glucosamine, which is changed into O-GlcNAc. Other scientists have shown that giving cells or animals excessive amounts of sugar or glucosamine, along with extra insulin, leads to insulin resistance. The new findings provide an explanation for others' experience with animal and laboratory models of insulin resistance.

There has been little study of glucosamine, a commonly used dietary supplement, in people. It is suggested that people taking glucosamine consult their doctors if they are concerned about the possibility of increasing their risk of developing diabetes."

Um, I'd like to asuage the fears of people taking Glucosamine that they will develop diabetes because of it. The study was about giving animals excessive amounts of sugar and/or glucosamine ALONG WITH extra insulin. So, they became somewhat insulin resistant...sounds reasonable. I seriously doubt that people are out there pounding loads of sugar and/or glucosamine and giving themselves insulin shots...if they are doing this, they are mentally out on a limb and are due for an accident anyway.

My summary, don't worry about taking recommended amounts of Glucosamine. It won't make you insulin resistant. If you are a diabetic, check to see if your doctor recommends it.

---

Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)

Thanks for reminder... I'm aware of NSAID 's potential bad side effect (such as, renal damage and dilutional hyponatremia). That's why I don't take those on a regular basis... and when I do (which is rare) the dosage is half the recommended dosage over half the recommended time. In contrast, I do (which is more common) cut back training twice as much as I should over twice the length of time I think I need.

I still believe the best solutions to such inflammation is reduction in activity until your body adapts to it's new level of stress. All to often, the key solution to joint related problems seems to revolve around a training program that is realistic in intensity levels and length of time to achieve those levels. Drugs are not the solution - they are only a tempory relief from miscalculating both too large of increases in training levels and too short of a realistic training period goal.

In this world of instant gratification... drugs (and herbal remedies - which are simply drugs in a different package) are used with the wrong intent. They are not tools for performance enhancement (as many seem to indicate) but rather they are temporary solutions to symptoms produced by excesses. Stop the excesses and performance enhancements become very real and permanent. Excessive use of drugs only place a false perceptions of performance enhancement.

That's been my take on my concept of "total" healthy lifestyle for some time... and, it's seems you and I are on the same page in this regard. So, when I see posts asking about long term effects of a drug (or herbal) remedy, I begin to wonder about the real reason for this information. Long term Dependence or performance enhancement through drug usage is not a good training strategy. Thxs.

FWIW Joe Moya

Thanks everyone for your posts. I really appreciate them.

And thanks ktalon for responding in such a diplomatic way. I wouldn't have been so level headed. When people misrepresent studies about nutritional supplements (either positively or negatively) it makes my blood boil. So I'm glad I uncovered the truth about this.

Jeff

There's actually two common forms of glucosamine: Sulfate (as you have experience with) and hydrochloride (which I take). Neither appears to be more effective than the other. You might want to check out the glucosamine hydrochloride versions.

---

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

I have been taking the glucosamine hydrochloride since I learned about my allergy. Specifically I have been taking Joint Juice. It is a bit more $$ that the stuff I can get @ GNC but the single serve packets that I mix with water make up for that.

Neither is more effective than the other? Effectiveness is questionable. All the studies I have seen (and there are quite a few done in Europe) used Glucomine Sulfate not HCL. So, to say they are of equal status is questionable statement... It would be nice if you could sight a reference to this statement... Currently, It is an assumed theory that the HCL may (and, I did say MAY - because I know of no research that used HCL) not be as effective because it is a bigger molecule and may not be as readily absorb. Therefore, it is either not effective or requires larger dosages to achieve the same results. Maybe that's is also why HCL version of glucosamine is a cheaper version of GS.

Joe Moya

As Mr. Moya points out, the well-known studies did use the sulfate version. It doesn't mean the HCl version doesn't work. But, it may mean the sulfate does the trick, not the glucosamine (I seriously doubt that statement, I'm just arguing with myself!). It would be nice to know the references about the HCl version, if you happen to have them. Thanks!

---

Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur
(That which is said in Latin sounds profound)