And they don't name the supplement? That's helpful.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
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Perhaps they see not announcing it preferable to loads of AGers rushing to buy the product in question if they do name it :-)

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29 years and counting

That's the risk you take with supplements.

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Not much of a risk, if you get the benefit of an illegal substance and the 'punishment' of being unable to race during 3 months that is probably your off-season anyway. Crappy.

And yet there are tons of studies showing that there are no performance benefits from supplements. I don’t understand how medical studies can show no effectiveness of a supplement and still have it be a banned substance.

The supplement isn't banned. The thing that contaminated the supplement is banned....

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

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It makes sense......the stuff she took doesn't provide much if any performance enhancement. If your a guy it would help with erectile dysfunction and its probably safe to say that SHE didn't take it for that reason.

I get the fact that WADA is in a hard spot (no pun intended) with stuff like this. DHEA has been shown (or the evidence is mixed at best) to have no PED effects on athletes but is ban none the less. I think that WADA "throws the baby out with the bath water" just to be on the safe side and bans anything that might be performance enhancing.

I'm not arguing that DHEA, etc should not be ban. Doping is a real problem. I'm arguing that if someone "dopes" especially unknowingly the so called advantage gained by the substance needs to be judged. This substance in the OP is has little effect compared to say EPO. In that regards 12 weeks makes sense to me.

if you go to supplement411.org and you just put "higenamine" in your browser's search function, you'll find a big list of supplements. probably 40 or 50 brands, stuff we all regularly take, like...

diablo, demon dust, burn, war juice...and my favorite...stampede untamed...not to be confused with...shredabull untamed, which also contains or contained higenamine.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Remember what WADA has dual criteria for substances: regulation of safety and performance-enhancement.

There is no mainstream medical use for DHEA or higenamine. They are not prescribed in modern medicine. And they have potential negative side effects.

those all sounds like winners for product names

define 'supplements,' though. electrolyte drinks? protein shakes? creatine? caffeine? there's plenty of evidence that they deliver benefit.

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____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

DHEA is banned because it is used as a masking agent to hide the use of other drugs from showing up in tests.

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Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook

It has been said that there are two kinds of cyclists... those who have hit by cars and those who will be hit by cars.

It seems to me that we're becoming like that... those that have been popped accidentally by their supplements and those that will be.

Seems like it's completely unregulated and if you race and train enough it's just a matter of time...

Eric

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
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Naïve question I guess, but do most truly competitive cyclists or triathletes actually take GNC type supplements? "Diablo, Demon Dust,.." etc?

Funny story. I have an in law who was an elite endurance athlete. Competed in the Olympics back in the day. He's convinced that most who beat him back in the day were doping, and actually, he might be right! I have no doubt in my mind that he competed clean. Over the years I've watched him try a lot of supplements that I kind of viewed as patently absurd though. Epovar which was just magnesium and claimed to increase VO2 max by,... 82%! He no longer competes so I've never really understand why he'd bother. So he can drop his group ride or running partners 82% quicker?

I've always wondered this also. All the things they sell that they literally market as performance enhancing but are not banned.

Does that mean they don't work or that they just don't care about those specific things.

I'm not arguing that people should be able to dope. But just look at the "Race Prep" pills that people like Hammer and First Endurance sell. If those actually worked, shouldn't they be banned?

Well, they do kinda sorta mostly work.
First Endurance Pre Race is pretty much Red Bull in pill form.
Maybe a few extra other things in there, but nothing illegal.

Just like caffeine will help improve performance, so will these.

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float , hammer , and jog

... or bulls at the rodeo.

But if they work, are they then not just performance enhancing?

If you have a proper diet, you should be able to get everything you need (maybe with a multivitamin supplement), in which case the supplements amount to expensive piss (since anything that is not needed comes out through your urine). If you're deficient or looking to restrict meals, and are subbing in some of these supplements, then you are adopting the risk.

I get the reduced ban if your sport drink is contaminated, but I still abide by the old rule that the only safe supplement is no supplement... While running collegiately, at our anti-doping seminar (which in Canada at the time was a condition on being eligible to compete), our athletic director came out straight up and said, you can talk to the sports med clinic if you absolutely must take a supplement and they can guide you towards less sketchy options, but you are responsible for what you put in your body, if you test positive, the university will not defend you, offer legal assistance, etc. The official guidance was to not take supplements...

That's stuck with me...


And probably my favorite anti-doping anecdote was working a race, when the anti-doping officers showed up to the indoor facility (Venue Control Centre) to set-up, and looked at the beverages we had on hand for the athletes, there were bottles of water and Muscle Milk... While Muscle Milk is certified for Sport, as being made on a clean line, the lead officer noted that the optics were dodgy of offering athletes something called"muscle milk" to help them produce a sample post race... Fortunately nobody tested positive there (despite nearly 30 tests split across 3 days)...

Wow...those names sound scary.....I would steer clear of those just because of the name!!

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"see the world as it is not as you want it to be"

It's something I've never understood either. I'm sure there's a logical explanation and classification methodology, I just haven't come across it yet.

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https://connect.garmin.com/modern/profile/domingjm

Yes but where do you draw the line? Can I not have a few coffees or eat beetroot before a race and take caffeine as a supplement later in an IM as I regularly do? WADA or whoever writes the rules can't ban everything that occurs in nature and is harmless to people to take.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...articles/PMC5295087/

Oh, I'm not saying they should. Heck, one could argue"eating healthy" is performance enhancing.

But when hammer or first endurance markers a pill that says it will enhance your performance.... That's ok?

Again, I'm just posing the question for discussion sake.

There is performance enhancing and there is performance enhancing. Just like water, a good steak and lots of veges compared to a diet of fries is performance enhancing.Then there are the greatly performance enhancing things, the ones banned. Anything not hugely beneficial or DANGEROUS is not likely to be banned, anything greatly beneficial and or potentially dangerous will be banned. Of course there are exceptions to this which I think is the grey area that should be cracked down on,Thyroid meds in elite athletes is pretty suss to me. I also have massive trouble believing that someone with a heart condition can become an elite athlete, but there are plenty.