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Alternatives to plastic
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So I was watching Ironman Italy 2017 last night and the wife came in and saw the usual aid station activity, and asked “So how are they going to do that if we all stop using plastic water bottles?”.

Good question I thought. Are we all going to start carrying bladders? Wooden bottles? Cucumbers infused with fructose?
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Re: Alternatives to plastic [Tin pot] [ In reply to ]
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There are some running races where you carry a cup and the aid stations just have water dispensers.

For tris everyone could just have a fuel belt with quick top flasks.

It would be slower, but same impact for everyone.


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Re: Alternatives to plastic [Tin pot] [ In reply to ]
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Why would we stop using plastic water bottles? (I say this as someone with a wife on an anti-plastic crusade, which I mostly agree with.)

The mess of thousands of single use plastic cups thrown into bins and on the ground, on the other hand... let's get rid of that.

'It never gets easier, you just get crazier.'
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Re: Alternatives to plastic [georged] [ In reply to ]
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georged wrote:
Why would we stop using plastic water bottles? (I say this as someone with a wife on an anti-plastic crusade, which I mostly agree with.)

The mess of thousands of single use plastic cups thrown into bins and on the ground, on the other hand... let's get rid of that.

this is what is going to happen... swim run races are already doing this. You will be required to carry a durable reusable cup

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Re: Alternatives to plastic [Tin pot] [ In reply to ]
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Well now that the dominos have begun to fall in our states to legalize pot, we have a new natural resource!!!;

Hemp plastic is a bioplastic made using industrial hemp. There are many different types of hemp plastic; from standard plastics reinforced with hemp fibers, to a 100% hemp plastic made entirely from the hemp plant. Hemp plastic is recyclable and can be manufactured to be 100% biodegradable.


It boggles me that so many people even here in CA resist getting rid of plastic bag, straws, and other things polluting our oceans and landfills. Common sense doesn't seem to be so common anymore... Just because the govt. is telling you to do something, does not mean it is a bad thing. Smoking, seatbelts, catalytic converters, sewage treatment, ocean oil drilling, and on and on. I think when it comes to the environment, we absolutely need regulations, a lot of them..
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Re: Alternatives to plastic [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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ericMPro wrote:
georged wrote:
Why would we stop using plastic water bottles? (I say this as someone with a wife on an anti-plastic crusade, which I mostly agree with.)

The mess of thousands of single use plastic cups thrown into bins and on the ground, on the other hand... let's get rid of that.

this is what is going to happen... swim run races are already doing this. You will be required to carry a durable reusable cup

Any thoughts out there on how to handle the bike leg?

I mean, I don’t know why the Powerade bottles at Ironman events have to be brand new and can’t be reused, but even then the bottles eventually have to be disposed of.

As is the race requires some kind of bottle being handed out.

Mandatory pit stops? F1-like messups changing race positions?
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Re: Alternatives to plastic [Tin pot] [ In reply to ]
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I hate plastic too for environmental concerns, but I think there are much, much easier anti-plastic targets to hit before targeting race bottle usage, which in my mind, is one of the areas where it's very hard to replace with a viable alternative.

Just go to the grocery store and watch folks load up on plastic water bottles for home use -there's an easy start there.
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Re: Alternatives to plastic [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
I hate plastic too for environmental concerns, but I think there are much, much easier anti-plastic targets to hit before targeting race bottle usage, which in my mind, is one of the areas where it's very hard to replace with a viable alternative.

Just go to the grocery store and watch folks load up on plastic water bottles for home use -there's an easy start there.

Totally agree with you.

But, for example, industrial use of oil far outweighs the pollution caused by regular cars, and yet the focus of environmental campaigns on pollution almost always focuses the public eye on car usage. Similarly, industrial use of plastics are the majority of the problem, but people will start with what’s in front of them, and for me that’s race day :)

It’s just a thought experiment for now anyway.

Has Ironman always used water stations with plastic bottles, or was it a bit more “self service” back in the day?
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Re: Alternatives to plastic [Tin pot] [ In reply to ]
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Hello Tin Pot and All,

Tin Pot quote in part: "Good question I thought. Are we all going to start carrying bladders?"


Eventually ...... yes .... the wind tunnel says it is much faster to have a bladder under your shirt than water bottles ....


Drink straw right at your mouth with no aero penalty.

Increased weight offset by better aero unless extremely hilly course ... no stops at aid stations ..... drink your own mix ..... although a bladder replacement on long course special needs lessens weight.


At Kona get new filled bladder exchange at Hawi special needs for a bit of extra weight on the downhill after the turnaround (if you planned right the first bladder will be almost empty at Hawi).


Self support and get rid of aid stations making races cheaper to set up.


If you want to try it on the cheap ..... get a front carry BabyPack at Walmart and put in a bladder of your choice .... strip out the excess padding to bare essentials on the baby pack to lessen weight and make a smooth fit under your shirt.


https://www.walmart.com/...-Creamsicle/22236456

https://www.walmart.com/...ble-Carrier/45039398

Lionel is doing it wrong in this picture .... wind tunnel data shows it works best worn in front .... not back.




Lionel Sanders at Hawaii wearing a hydration backpack underneath his trisuit.

https://blog.sourceoutdoor.com/...hydration-pack-belt/

Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster
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Re: Alternatives to plastic [nealhe] [ In reply to ]
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Everyone knows that he's actually carrying Matt Chrabot under his jersey in this picture, not a water bladder.

***
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Re: Alternatives to plastic [M----n] [ In reply to ]
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Everyone knows that he's actually carrying Matt Chrabot under his jersey in this picture, not a water bladder. ///

That's pretty funny, payback for the swim I presume?? Inside joke folks, goes back a couple Ironmans ago..
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Re: Alternatives to plastic [nealhe] [ In reply to ]
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Even less aero penalty if you carry your bladder internally.

'It never gets easier, you just get crazier.'
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Re: Alternatives to plastic [monty] [ In reply to ]
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Next thing you know, they'll take all the hemp cups, find a way to smelt & roll it, and hand them out at the awards cermonies for all takers to amp up those boring award speeches.
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Re: Alternatives to plastic [nealhe] [ In reply to ]
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Looks good, but you can’t carry all the water you need from T1 for 180km. But it could certainly reduce the amount of plastic needed - how would you deal with refilling?
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Re: Alternatives to plastic [Tin pot] [ In reply to ]
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 I like the approach used by Specialized, granted I didn't buy a Shiv. For the bikes that have massive tubes, why not put the hydration for the cycling phase in the bike? Setup a water/X-aid jug with a valve at the end of a tube and refill that way at the aid stations. The collapsible camping cups may also be a decent alternative for the run portion, that is, if you don't want to carry your bike the whole way :) .
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Re: Alternatives to plastic [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
I hate plastic too for environmental concerns, but I think there are much, much easier anti-plastic targets to hit before targeting race bottle usage, which in my mind, is one of the areas where it's very hard to replace with a viable alternative.

Just go to the grocery store and watch folks load up on plastic water bottles for home use -there's an easy start there.

I'll put in another tally here. I know it looks bad on TV but the amount of extra plastic used for Ironman or just races in general is pretty small in the big picture. Many triathletes go out of the way the other 364 days of the year to be a little more environmental. I do anyway, carrying water bottles and trying to get them last longer. Recycling, using less material and a compost heap. Maybe I'm just dreaming but I'd like to think compared to the average person my 12 bottles thrown into a hockey net at IMMT was pretty small. Just think of the person who drinks 3 plastic bottles a day. Plus it's hard to find a viable option that works for 2000 racers that doesn't involve plastic.

I still lapped everyone on the couch!
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Re: Alternatives to plastic [Tin pot] [ In reply to ]
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Think its time to invest in a running vest

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Re: Alternatives to plastic [Tin pot] [ In reply to ]
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It might not work well for cycling or triathlon bike-legs, but I've done lots of running races where little water pouches were handed out instead of plastic bottles/cups:




If you could make those from a bio-degradable plastic (maybe they already are?) it would be a big-step in the right direction; it beats a million little plastic cups/bottles littering the course and whatsmore, they're easier to drink without spilling most of it over your face too.
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Re: Alternatives to plastic [awenborn] [ In reply to ]
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I think for us the challenge is the refill.

Also, you look into recyclable plastics, even those marked biodegradable, they’re not “ok”, they just meet specific definitions and there is still a load of unnecessary pollution of one kind or another.

The run course I agree with those suggesting we bring reusable cups. That flattening cup sounds great too. If that can’t work for some reason, paper cups could be fine if it’s renewable and compostable.

But unless we start queueing for a tap at various points around the bike course I think it has to be some kind of vessel, passed to riders like today, and something that isn’t plastic that will compost in a normal way.
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Re: Alternatives to plastic [Last-offtheBike] [ In reply to ]
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Hello Last-offtheBike and All,


Poetry ..... also needs a removable bladder so the empty can be switched for a full at special needs for full Ironman distances ...... or a disposable paper container (like a milk carton) to refill it at special needs.


"Think it's time to invest


in a running vest"




Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster
Last edited by: nealhe: Mar 13, 18 11:37
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Re: Alternatives to plastic [Last-offtheBike] [ In reply to ]
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Those running vests are the way to go, esp for gravel rides or an allroad or gravel tri. I found it hard to feel comfortable reaching for/putting back my water bottle when my bike was jostled by the rougher road surface. Running vests make hydration easy.

Strangely, I dreamed (drempt?) last night that I found an empty running vest bladder on the ground. I was psyched to have a spare. It wouldn't take much time to switch out in a long race.
Last edited by: CalamityJane88: Mar 13, 18 11:14
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Re: Alternatives to plastic [CalamityJane88] [ In reply to ]
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Love the edible idea!
Hopefully screw caps will be accessible from the outside, so need to swap bladders, just a volunteer with a hose
trigreen
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Re: Alternatives to plastic [Tin pot] [ In reply to ]
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Most paper cups (if not all) used on run courses are coated wax, and therefore not easily recyclable or compostable.They likely end up in the landfill or at best incinerated.
The PET bottles that are handed out on the bike can and should be recycled. This particular plastic material can be recycled and reused many times, problem is most RD don't bother.
As for the eatable cups and bottles, you can theoretically do that now if its made out of PLA (Polylactic Acid) a starch based material. It's designed to be industrial compostable, not biodegradable.
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