Allison,

Not sure if it's appropriate since I don't know much about the root causes, but sorry to hear of the demise of your marriage. I'm training for my 1st IM (Brazil) now and have become accutely aware of needs and wants. I think this is partly due to the need for more organization with my time, the state of world affairs, and a couple of books I've been reading. All of these were suggested to me by a friend I respect a great deal. He has recently set up a scholarship fund for disadvantaged kids in the Chicago area based around a book, "Your Money or Your Life" by Joe Dominguez & Vicki Robin. The other two I've recently read have been Ben Franklin's "Autobiography & Other Writings" (his 13 virtues are printed and stay in my wallet with me always now), and "Walden" by Thoreau. Perhaps you'll get some inspiration from these books too. All are based around a person's getting a clear understanding of wants, and needs. -KP

p.s. - I also have a weekly article I write for http://www.dallastrigeeks.org. You'll see my latest article about my recent boudt with pneumonia, but there is an archive of 5 others w/photos you may enjoy. -KP

Hi Keith,

I checked your website... I really like the picture ( specially because of the TSHIRT!!! )... I´m a Brazilian .....

I read that you are going to do IM Brazil.... If I can give you an advice.... try to arrive earlier.... This summer is particularly HOT !!!! ) . I just did a race two weeks ago and I faded completely on the run... I did my best swim ever and a good bike leg but after 2.5 km I couldn´t run anymore...., I walk maybe 20 % of my run leg....

See you there !!!

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Luiz Eng

i wouldn't say that acquiring fitness causes marital problems. acquiring self-respect causes them sometimes. but i know that's what you mean.

i also must say that i'm NOT sorry that alison's marriage didn't work out. i might've been sorry that it was in turmoil back when that was the case. but that was then. now, it's done and gone, i suspect. i think when you're at the point where you've made the decision to go in a different direction and not look back you are past the point, or trying to get past the point, where you're sorry over your marriage not working. you've hopefully dealt with that, and you're now happy that you're onto the next chapter.

but what i'd like to say is that it was INCREDIBLY BRAVE for alison to write what she did and i'm SO PROUD of her that she did so. i also think it was one of the most important things to come along on slowtwitch for awhile, because a LOT of people go through what she's gone through, but they don't share it so transparently with 40,000 of their closest friends.

when others read it, though, it makes them feel a bit better about their own experience.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Hey Allison, just don't ever forget about the simple things. I'm 7+ years on from my divorce. Even today I retain the "simple" view. My second wife and I could own a $500k+ house, or drive BMWs or have just about whatever we wanted to have, given our incomes. But we don't. I know, based on my divorce experience, that those aren't the things that make life meaningful to me. You've got it right. Kids, family, friends, and something I can be passionate about outside of work (like you, mine is multisport). All those other things that seemed important back then just don't mean much anymore, as long as I stay grounded in the simple things (although when I do indulge myself when it comes to multisport gear, I don't ask myself whether I need it or not, but whether it compromises the keep it simple rule.) Occasionally I'll overstep this rule, but only when it is taking care of kids, family, friends, me. Learning the "simple rules" is painful, particularly when it comes at the expense of a marriage, but ultimately therein lies true happiness. Go Girl.

Amen,

Going through a separation right now - and Alison's article is a welcome, helping hand for this human. Thanks Alison!

Best,

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TonyG

What is Enoch Root?

I too was overly impressed with the article and bravery Allison showed in writing and publishing it. While marital turmoil and separtion are emotionally draining and often depressing, I found the article inspiring. It's sad that it's a rare thing for people to take control of their lives and make the painful choices that will make things better in the long run. It's even more rare for people going through a separation to handle things with nobility rather than resorting to the legal squabbling and petty fighting that has become so common. The strength of character that Allison always displays in her writing is truly uplifting and a great asset to this site.

Best of luck Allison.

Thanks to all of you who have not judged but appreciated the honesty. I did debate long and hard about submitting the article and indeed had written several others, they just did not feel truthful. In the end for the other articles from here on in to seem genuine this one had to be written. I cannot thank all of you enough, especially you Dan, for your words of comfort and acceptance. It means a great deal.

Alison

I applaud Alison for speaking about the important things in life in such a public sphere. There are things in life which i always took for granted. I am one ofthe few people left who came from a home with two parents who stayed married and are still married today. I thought there was some merit to spendingthe rest of your life with someone, but have come to realize that that is just not usually how it works out in reality. LA can't even make it work, and he is superman. The only thing I can hope for is that by the grace of God I can make the right decision and spend the rest of my life with the right person who will share in my experiences, not be jealous of them.

tommy

Alison,

Been there, done that. It's a traumatic experience. Despite the fact that our 15 yr. marriage ended "intelligently" with minimal lawyer involvement and with putting the kids first, it's still an emotional experience that I wouldn't wish on anyone. We now have no bitterness but a realization that despite extensive marital counselling, we were not meant for each other. Our marriage was 15 yrs of trying to fit square pegs into round holes. It just didn't work. We hold each other blameless and are both repartnered now with more compatible people that we are both much happier with. Best of all, the kids have adjusted and are well balanced "A" students who love both their parents.

I've posted here before about divorce and said these words - any way you look at it, divorce sucks, but sometimes it is the best solution.

Reading Allison's account of her divorse was like the first time I read a detailed account of finishing an Ironman... only a hundred times more significant.

I finished my first IM as a post divorce accomplishment.

Growth in one - vs no growth in the other of a pair is a troubled combination. Inequities of self confidence and to some extent fitness were the divisive factor.

Allison - thank you for sharing... congratulations on your accomplishments and good luck in your future!

I always read Allison's columns as soon as I find them. The writing is entertaining, inspiring, insightful ... I also feel for her and all of the pain and disappointment she must be experiencing. I wish her and her family well.

I never would have responded until I saw all of the posts pouring in with congratulations. Isn't there anyone out there who believes in staying married? Does anyone really believe divorce is "best for the kids"? (Don't reply about extreme circumstances, I'm not talking about that)

I do not wish to comment on the appropriateness of Allison's divorce, I could not possibly do so and would not even if I had the information. However, her column is a discouragement to all those couples out there who will struggle through bad spots in a relationship and stick it out.

I respect Allison for her previous writing, her accomplishments and for her honesty. However, I do not see how this article fits in with her usual style of uplifting and inspiring columns. I do not see the utility in printing the column but I can see how it is potentially destructive and I do not think that is what Allison wants.

Hi Tom,

First of all I would like to express my gratitude to you for expressing your opinion so respectfully. I was not in the least offended.

You are quite right, I am not encouraging people to leave their marriages. Certainly I did not get married to come to this point, it was not what I envisioned. That said, I wrote the article because while I harbour a sense of responsibility and guilt over the outcome of it, I harbour no shame in making the decision that I did either. That is the reason I wrote the article. I could not have written further articles for this site under my previous bio.

As a therapist, I have always encouraged people to be responsible for their share of their marriage, to address things head on and not wait for a "better" time to tackle the tough stuff. I have also always tried to practice what I preach. However, it does take two. Ultimately, in my own case, I needed to feel that I could look my children in the eye and confidently say I had tried everything. Others do not have the benefit of history and must react in the moment they are told. This makes it hard for people to make sense of the outcome.

Without a doubt I am all in favour of marriages that work- that have two people who are committed to each other and each is committed to the others' happiness. When the wellbeing of either partner is compromised I do think it Ok to reexamine the relationship. I do not believe you should wait to do this until something bad (that makes it more Ok for everyone else to make sense of the break-up) happens.

Hope this isn't a rant.

Alison

I absolutely agree with you, Tom. A divorce is NEVER (short of physical abuse) what's "best for the kids". We touched upon this subject in another thread, and someone pointed out the studies that show this to be true. To say otherwise is to simply rationalize your decision.

The article and the "congratulations" in this thread don't uplift me, they make me sad; mostly for Alison and her family, but also for our society which has trivialized divorce to such a degree that it is acceptable, if not expected.

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Dave in WI
-----------------------------------------------------
"What you once were isn't what you want to be anymore" - Wilco

but at this point it wouldn't help.

To have this article appear in the same week as the press release from the Armstrongs seems a big blow on the estate of matrimony, but it's just two isolated cases. What is important in any marriage is THAT MARRIAGE. Other divorces are irrelevant.

My personal opinion is that Lance should give up riding to save the marriage, assuming he is willing to work on the marriage (if either party is unwilling to work on it, it's pointless to try). Of course, I'm not privy to the details in their situation, and I don't want to speculate. I just see such a change from the huge hoot-an-holler when they found out they were pregnant with twins, to a separation.

Same in your case, Allison -- no details, don't want to know. But I do think that most any marriage is worth saving, and many times it takes great sacrifice on the part of BOTH parties to make it work.

But here's the end of my diatribe -- now that the decision has been made, you have my support. I may not agree with the action you've taken, but it's water under the bridge now, and I'll support you in any way I can.

---

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

......I would add substance abuse also; but, as I stated in the previous thread one should probably either have been aware of that before they had kids or have been able to prevent it somewhere along the way, in some way. Maybe sometimes it just can't be prevented, but I believe that is the very rare exception. Knock on wood that exception is never me!



Dave in WI, you have a partner here and we need to stay together, support each other, and not compromise or our society will continue to go down hill. There has to be a strong spiritual base, eternal commitment, each side giving way more than 50%, and never an eye on the exit door. And for goodness sake, the kids deserve it and did nothing to deserve anything less. The rest, except for the rare exception, is just plain rationalizing!

Alison, I haven't been in your shoes so I certainly can't judge your situation, and I'm sure there is probably much more to the story. I certainly wish you the best. However, I very strongly disagree with your counseling recommendation that each side has to do their fair share (or something like that). That is a sure recipe for failure - each side must do way more than their fair share, even when it seems like the other isn't, and that is what true love and commitment is all about. Try it and it will work!

Anyway, best wishes to all and I pray for all to have successful marraiges and families.

Best Wishes,

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

Divorce is never the first choice - of that I think we all agree. But when two people are in a disfunctional relationship (and I only know of my and my parents circumstances), when you know or both know that is just isn't going to work... then you have an obligation to your self and to your children, to deal with that reality and determine what is best. For everyone - including yourself - but especially the kids.

My congratulations was in recognizing what needed to be done and in taking the risk of acting on it. I don't know who would be served in that situation by sitting on the fence.

I do not believe that a disfucnctional family, being held together on principle is better than other options. I believe that children are better off when the parents are living a happy and fulfilled life. That is something we should all strive for without guilt.

I think that many 'super-parents' put there lives on total hold while allowing the needs of their children to dictate ridiculous circumstances. Part of the role of a parent is to show, not just teach - you children how to live happily and fulfilled. The happiest, most accomplished and balanced children are those of parents that live that way and act as role models.

Life is to short, to show and encourage your children how to be miserable and live without love.

I honestly believe that you can't really pass judgement on divorce unless you've been there yourself. I also agree that making a marriage work is the best thing. Those of you blessed with happy marriages are very fortunate. The other 40% of us weren't so fortunate, but that is a part of life. Divorce can happen to the seemingly most unlikely couples. Of our fitteen years, the first ten were wonderful, then something just changed. I also feel that there are times when divorce may be better for the kids, and not just with extreme cases like physical abuse, but in cases where the marriage just isn't working.

Having said that, I'm a case in point. My ex and I did try to make a mismatch work with professional counselling, etc., but we were too different from each other in our backgrounds, interests and values. Our divorce was was the best thing for both of us and the kids. Obviously a happy marriage is always the best thing for kids, but an intelligent seperation with putting the kids first is better than a divorce in which the parents are bitter and use the kids against each other. Both our kids are happy well adjusted popular A students. My daughter starts college this year and my son is in high school. We couldn't have asked for more even if we had stayed together. If we had, we would have been miserable together and this probably would have effected the kids in a more negative way.

Just $.02 from someone who has been there.

Unfortunately, that is not what the studies show. Kids are better off with two parents, period.

Please don't take my comments as a condemnation of anyone. I have nothing but sympathy and prayers for those who are struggling or have struggled through difficult marriages/divorces. But the bottom line is that a strong, giving, faithful marriage is what is best for the kids, with an emphasis on "faith": Faith in God, and faith in each other.

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Dave in WI
-----------------------------------------------------
"What you once were isn't what you want to be anymore" - Wilco

Absolutely, that's why it is a choice to work hard enough that one is not miserable and one does have love. For the vast majority of those for whom marraige does not work it is because they choose not to make it work, or not to work hard enough to make it work.

Heck, there are threads on the amount of time training, on the price of a computrainer, etc. Most folks whose marraige fails come nowhere near spending that much time or effort really working on their marraige, and then say oh well we just grew apart and it didn't work. Bull cocky!

And talk about miserable, how about the kids of divorced parents and for that matter the grandkids with 8 grandparents - now, that is miserable and they didn't have any choice in the matter. And then the cycle repeats itself and and we've created an expanding generation who will suffer the same fate. How can we not fight as hard as we can to keep that from happening!?

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

"For the vast majority of those for whom marraige does not work it is because they choose not to make it work, or not to work hard enough to make it work."

Dude, there was a time when I used to talk just like that to.

Well, as Dave brings up there is no attempt to pass judgement and I really do wish the very best for everyone, particularly those in tough marraige situations.

However, and I really do mean with all due respect, it just simply is not the best thing for the kids (I guess we could argue that all day, but the stats support Dave in WI's view). Further, if you were soooo different, then you made a mistake on the front end and possibly didn't take the vows seriously enough when that decision was made, and the kids will in some way suffer no matter how good they are. So, why don't we help others so that they don't make the same front end mistake?

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

Cervelo guy got it right!

I can't tell (David and Dave in WI) if you have been there or not - but it is best to reserve judgement until you are faced with the same delima.

I understand your point, as I too would have chosen to stay and suffered in a disfunctional marraige. But I did not have that choice... it only takes one adult to get a divorce. My kids are much happier than they were... and I am much happier. My kids now have the opportunity for 4 very devoted parents/step parents in their lives.

...and I will fight like the dickens to continue that way. Of course I need your support and everyone elses' too.



david

okay, here goes...

i'm going to go out on a limb here are say--and i'm very happy to be told i'm wrong, but i'm going to make the guess anyway--that at least half of the respondents in favor of marriage at almost all costs are also christians. now, we're all family here, right? and i wouldn't inject this without provocation, and i hope no one takes too much offense.

but, "husbands, love your wives as christ loved the church." when a man can say that he has done that in HIS marriage--i mean REALLY done that--then he can talk about what is or isn't proper for the rest of us in our marriages.

and then there are the apostles who LEFT their wives in order to minister, and can you imagine anyone doing that today and getting away with it? but those were different times, culturally.

and that's the point, i think. you've REALLY got to wrestle with your bible to make doctrine that pertains to marriage. there just isn't that much in there about it. plenty about other stuff. not that much about marriage, except that regrettable statement i quoted above (a much higher standard than any husband is able to meet).

see how dangerous a few years of bible college can make a guy? exegesis is my bag. that and bike geometry.

anyway, there is not too much you can do when the other person just doesn't want to play ball anymore.

as for the kids, i didn't see where alison wrote that she was doing anything for the sake of the kids. i think she did what she did for the sake of her own ability to live the rest of her life and to know, when she was sixty or seventy, that she actually had a life of her own to live. as for the kids, i'm a product of a few marriages if you add all my "parents" up. i survived. i even prospered. makes birthdays a real windfall. what would make the kids less happy, i think, is to have them grow up and realize, at 25 or 35 years old, that their mom stuck it out in a stinky marriage for their sakes. i know i'd certainly have felt that way.

alison, you go girl. and i mean that in every way it can be construed. i'm as proud to have that column on slowtwitch as any other because, as the bad sergeant said to the good one in platoon, "there's the way things oughta be, and there's the way things are."

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman