Patrick Lange
Tim Deboom
Greg Welch

---

Matt

Would have to say Norman Stadler, Helliregal, and even Jurgen if you have Cameron Brown in there. Someone already pointed out the obvious germans you left off of there, you must have short term memory loss...(-;

If we are talking how it would play out, all things equal Mark Allen and Dave Scott easily would be 1-2. Considering their times In the 80s before swimskins, deep section wheels, speed suits, modern aero bikes and the insane amount of marginal gains that have come along, they would easily best Lange’s Kona Record.

X2

x3

No disrespect to today's pros, but these guys were operating at a different level doing 8:0x in 1989. If we are to believe in all the marketing from the bike manufacturers, we can shave 10-12 minutes of Mark's split, and that puts him consistently down around 7:55 in Kona.

I guess we need Luc Van Lierde on this list just so he can chase Hellriegel for 23 miles.

I added some unlikely winners BUT added because they surely change the dynamic of the race (Ingraham, Sandvang, Keller etc.)



Males

Mark Allen
Dave Scott
Peter Reid
Crowie
Macca
Jan Frodeno
Sebastian Kienle
Andreas Raelert
Faris Al-Sultan
Cameron Brown
Lothar Leder
Juergen Zack
Thomas Hellriegal
Wolfgang Ditrich
Pauli Kiuru
Christian Bustos
Tim DeBoom
Scott Tinley
Fred Van Lierde
Peter Sandvang
Torbjorn Sinballe
Luc Van Lierde
Pete Jacobs
Spencer Smith
Norman Stadler
Rutger Beke
Eneko Llanos
Chris Lieto
Scott Molina
.... TO, & Ben Hoffman as additionals becasue they'll be there an its my race to add wildcards ;-)


Female
Daniela Ryf
Natascha Badmann
Chrissie Wellington
Mirinda Carfrae
PNF
Lori Bowden
Karen Smyers
Leanda Cave
Erin Baker
Lucy Charles
Mary Beth Ellis
Caroline Steffen
Fernanda Keller
Heather Fuhr
Wendy Ingraham
Joanna Zieger
Lisa Bentley
Kate Major
Michellie Jones
Jo Lawn
Belinda GRanger
GIna Kehr
Sam McGlone
Rachael Joyce
Julie Dibbens
Jodie Swallow
Heather Jackson
Karen Theurig
... and because this is my race of 60, I let Dede Griesbauer and Linsey Corbin race (MBK can race too if she figures the heat out ;-0 ... sorry MBK)

---

-------------------------
Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com

Some debate about how much they benefit but imagine if either guy had Vaporflys or other modern elite marathon shoes. Hard to believe we wouldn’t have seen run splits in the 2:3X:

I would love to see Macca rope in Zach, Hellriegel, Kienle, Frodo, and Spencer Smith to push the bike pace to get away from Mark Allen and Lange.

This one would be for the ages. The press vehicles would not know which pack to cover.

Meanwhile in the women's race, Chrissie, Lucy, Natascha and Daniela are tag teaming push the bike close to 4:30 with the help of each other and Daniela knows that Chrissie will put down a 2:54 run so she's trying to shred Chrissie's leg's which is impossible to do, PNF is trying to help Daniela cause she's never run sub 3. They also have Karen Thurig and Caroline Steffan to ride a womens' uberbikers paceline. Somewhere in the bike train we have Leanda Cave but she's just a domesitque in this uberbiker train of women all time greats. The gazelles, namely Fuhr, Erin Baker, Mirinda Carfrae and Lisa Bentley are looking at a 30 min deficit into T2...the game is over for them.

What would you pay to watch that women's bike train in action? I THINK Chrissie takes it. I don't think Daniela has the same killer instinct that Chrissie had. PNF had it, but she never had Chrissie's run

Are we also figuring that drug testing would be done both in competition and out of competition?

---

Matt

I’d add Andy Potts. Consistent top 10 plus his swim could change the dynamic from the start.

---

Let food be thy medicine...

Good adds, however...

Rutger Beke? Was his Kona history outside of the 4th place finish still impressive?

Didn't Julie Dibbens only race once?

Beke had 3 x top 5 finishes 3rd, a 4th and either a 4th or 5th?

Dibbens though only finished once (3rd) she had the ability to blow the race apart and did so the year she pulled out with a foot injury. She rode 4:44 with what would have been a bike course record. She is in my list for her ability to completely change the race on the bike. In theory she would have been with say Daniela & Chrissie out of the swim and likely ridden faster OR changed the dynamic.

---

-------------------------
Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com

Like it!

---

-------------------------
Dave Latourette
http://www.TTENation.com

Do you think they had a bigger monopoly on high octane drugs in 1989 versus 2019? There are better drugs now and and better medical knowledge about how to keep your blood composition magically optimal. 1989 was liike the dark ages. Only a few really knew how to blood dope and they were mainly working with Dr. Conconi. I am not sure that pro triathletes had there hands in the EPO cookie jar by 1989.

This article is good:

https://www.velopress.com/dr-ferrari-was-right/

Excerpt:

In his autobiography, A Bloody Long Journey, Goldwasser recalls that not long after he began his 1953 investigations, a man with racehorses to sell came looking for equine EPO. Horses that ran faster and longer com­manded premium prices, and the horseman wanted to inject his stock with EPO to increase their performance in claiming races—events where horses are sold based on their placings. As Goldwasser recalls, “He had done his homework and knew that for short races, increasing red cells was no help . . . but in longer races, having a bigger erythron [red-blood-cell count] was an advantage.”7
Buckets of horse blood soon began showing up on Goldwasser’s doorstep. Although Goldwasser never extracted enough pure EPO from the blood to test its sporting efficacy, he, like the racing entrepreneur, saw the performance-enhancing potential in the blood-regulating hor­mone in the early 1950s.8 When Goldwasser’s lab finally isolated the EPO gene in the early 1980s, an infant biotech startup called Applied Molecular Genetics approached him, and Goldwasser began sharing his three decades of knowledge with the company that would later rename itself Amgen. The company was funded by Montgomery Securities, an investment bank founded by Lance Armstrong’s U.S. Postal Service team backer Thomas Weisel.9
Amgen finally cloned EPO in November 1983, opening the door to industrial scale production of a synthetic version of the hormone under the name Epogen. It also licensed the patent to Johnson & Johnson, which sold its EPO as Procrit. The startup exploded into a pharmaceuti­cal giant worth over $100 billion today. By 2006, annual EPO sales were $13 billion worldwide.10 After Amgen went public in 1983, the com­pany generated a stock-market windfall that seed investor and dedicated cyclist Weisel would later use to fund pro bike racing teams and pay for his own personalized coaching by Eddie Borysewicz.
The spectacular rise of Amgen and its miracle drug coincided with what appeared to be a rash of mysterious deaths among endurance ath­letes. Echoing claims made in other general news and cycling-specific publications, a May 1991 New York Times article concluded that EPO’s development came too close to a glut of pro cyclist funerals to be mere coincidence. The piece described the mysterious death of Dutch pro Johannes Draaijer, who passed away in his sleep in 1990 at the age of 27. A caption beneath a photo of Draaijer read, “Mr. Draaijer’s widow believes that the drug recombinant erythropoietin was involved with his death.” A pull quote declared, “You just don’t get 18 deaths in 4 years, mysteriously.” The story left the impression that the new life-saving anemia drug played double duty as an indiscriminate athlete killer.11

How are drugs “better” now? I’ve got a chemistry undergrad (where my senior thesis was on PED use and testing) and a doctorate in pharmacy so I feel like maybe I have a decent grasp. How often were athletes tested then versus now?

LVL’s win was in 96 was pretty suspect and has been subject of a lot of chatter

---

Matt

Simon Lessing
Tim Don

---

Habitual line stepper.

Optically, you can't split up The Big Four like that

That would be like having a concert lineup of

Metallica
Slayer
Steel Panther
Loverboy
Anthrax
Cheap Trick
The Might Mighty Bosstones
Smashmouth
and Megadeth

---

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Definitly Chrissie-I don't think there has never been a tri female competitor quite like her-guts and smarts. JUst awesome

Chrissie versus PNF modern tech/knowhow would be interesting... Badmann crowd favorite wild card

Frodo versus scott and allen versus Luc van lierde who went fastest on the old tech and record stood over 10 years

macca vs kienle for crowd favorite wild card

Dark horse ken glah if he shaved the moustach

Don’t forget about moto drafting, that plus testing is likely the reason today’s splits aren’t a lot faster than the 80’/90’s

---

Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

yeah, the switch from camera vans to motorbikes was important!

---

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

I'm going to add two more names that would most definitely affect the race overall, more so than 75% of the names already posted.

Cameron Wurf
Allistar Brownlee

Might even be a potential winner in there too...(-;

david mcnamee ?

Marino Vanhoenacker?