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Re: Alistair Brownlee 70.3 Dubai [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
I don't see Sanders getting anywhere near him if he's fit. They're in a different league I'm afraid. ///

I wouldn't read too much into his time at this particular race, the winning woman went 4 flat, so something is a little off for sure. In fact I would say her race was more impressive than Allistar's, that is a very good gap to have held to him on a 1/2 course.. Lionel would have been fine here too if he choose to race it, certainly would have caught him on the bike and made a race of it.

So is the million dollars on or not? From the front page article is seems as if it has not been announced yet?? Seems to me to be the only reason other than a large start fee that Ali is even doing this race..

Two things.

One I said if AB is fit. And he is not super fit at the moment. A 1:11 HM equivalent for him is slow lets be honest. He had hip surgery 6 months ago for christ sake!

Two I would debate whether Lionel would have caught him today. The flatter bike course definitely suits the bigger more powerful man. However the swim was very choppy and would would suit AB more. So I think even if Lionel takes 2 mins back on the bike he's gonna still be 1-2 mins down onto the run (remember the transitions).

So no he wouldn't have been ok.
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Re: Alistair Brownlee 70.3 Dubai [oscaro] [ In reply to ]
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oscaro wrote:
So you think Lionel would have done a 1:55 bike? No way that is happening, especially considering Alistair is a way better descender than Lionel and the second half was downhill.

My sarcasm detector is having issues with your post. Are you being sarcastic?
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Re: Alistair Brownlee 70.3 Dubai [TulkasTri] [ In reply to ]
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No I am not

Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon
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Re: Alistair Brownlee 70.3 Dubai [oscaro] [ In reply to ]
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oscaro wrote:
No I am not

Did the course have any technical descents at all? I'd agree that Alister is a superb bike handler but the Dubai course seemed to lack anything that would make his greater skill a significant time saver.

Hugh

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
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Re: Alistair Brownlee 70.3 Dubai [oscaro] [ In reply to ]
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oscaro wrote:
No I am not

Not sure if Lionel could pull a 1:55 on that course, but him and Sebi did 1:56 @ Challenge Samorin, where Ali did 1:59 (same split at Dubai).

Also, the lose like 280 feet over 26 miles, I wouldn't say that requires some mad descending skills.
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Re: Alistair Brownlee 70.3 Dubai [oscaro] [ In reply to ]
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No I am not //

I think what people are referring to is this statement you made:


Alistair is a way better descender than Lionel and the second half was downhill.

Since there is virtually no downhill and of course it was a basically flat tiny elevation loss, it is silly to say that someone would have trouble with that downhill, it doesn't exist.


And yes I do think Lionel would have caught him, he has gapped him before at this distance about that amount of time, and he is better now. Like I said, don't take that 1;58 at face value, just like the other splits, something or everything was off a bit. But I feel it is just safe to say no matter what the bike course, over 56 miles Lionel will catch up his swim deficit, especially now that he has halved that time in recent races.


You seem to be very educated and follow this stuff Oscaro, I think in order to keep your standing you need to go back and put that downhill statement in pink...(-;
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Re: Alistair Brownlee 70.3 Dubai [monty] [ In reply to ]
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How did the race play out? Where did Ali come out of the swim? (Ali said he didn't feel too good on the swim, said he didn't have a great bike either but felt good on the run)

Seems theres little or no footage of the race and can't find any splits.
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Re: Alistair Brownlee 70.3 Dubai [Jackets] [ In reply to ]
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Full coverage on youtube. Link somewhere in the thread. AB led the swim into shore. Exited in 2nd. Quickly went to the front on the bike and never saw any competitors since then.

Edit: I did the race 2 years ago. Assuming the course is the same it is not techical at all. 45 km out and back with absolutely no hills. The wind is always terrible though. Don't know if AB is better at staying in aero posi in the wind since he trains outside compared to Lionel who murder the home trainer :)
Last edited by: MichaelB88: Feb 2, 18 23:18
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Re: Alistair Brownlee 70.3 Dubai [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
No I am not //

I think what people are referring to is this statement you made:


Alistair is a way better descender than Lionel and the second half was downhill.

Since there is virtually no downhill and of course it was a basically flat tiny elevation loss, it is silly to say that someone would have trouble with that downhill, it doesn't exist.


And yes I do think Lionel would have caught him, he has gapped him before at this distance about that amount of time, and he is better now. Like I said, don't take that 1;58 at face value, just like the other splits, something or everything was off a bit. But I feel it is just safe to say no matter what the bike course, over 56 miles Lionel will catch up his swim deficit, especially now that he has halved that time in recent races.


You seem to be very educated and follow this stuff Oscaro, I think in order to keep your standing you need to go back and put that downhill statement in pink...(-;

Again while the run course was 400m short, the bike leg was bang on accurate. This is based on Strava data.

At Samorin LS was 2:24 down onto the bike and took back 1:40 on the bike. AB did overbike that day. LS ran 1:14 vs ABs 1:11 equivalent in Dubai. Both courses have flat bike and run routes. Lake swim vs choppy sea swim. Sea swim favours Brownlee.

I think AB looks a hell of a lot more comfortable on a TT bike from last year. So I reckon 2 mins is all LS can take back and on the run loses 2 mins.

So I stand by my statement he would end up 2-3 mins down over a 70.3. I think as AB gets fitter and can put 12-18 months uninterupted training together that gap will grow.

Full distance is a different story. I think there are plenty of problems that AB could face.
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Re: Alistair Brownlee 70.3 Dubai [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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No not any technical descents, but alistair did average over 50kph on the back half, so there was at least some elevation loss plus tailwind.

Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon
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Re: Alistair Brownlee 70.3 Dubai [monty] [ In reply to ]
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You are correct that it is a pretty flat course, but as many have pointed out, it is also windy which favors Alistair. Also, im not sure why you wouldn’t take the 1:58 at face value, do you not think he can produce that bike split? If so you are very mistaken, which I think he will prove nicely during the other 70.3 this year. Alistair is a monster on the bike, as well as the swim and run.
Hopefully the two will meet again this year, maybe Lionel will do 70,3 worlds though I doubt it.

Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon
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Re: Alistair Brownlee 70.3 Dubai [oscaro] [ In reply to ]
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Why is LS being compared to Ali? Frodo is a much better all round Triathlete as is Gomez, I could understand the comparisons with these two who have a similar pedigree, bizzare!
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Re: Alistair Brownlee 70.3 Dubai [Jackets] [ In reply to ]
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Yes it is strange, and even more strange that Alistairs biking pedigree is being questioned.
So Kona 2019- Ali, Gomez, Frodo, Lange, Sanders, McNamee, Nilsson
Pretty stacked field but I think most of them will be fighting for bronze!

Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon
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Re: Alistair Brownlee 70.3 Dubai [Jackets] [ In reply to ]
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Jackets wrote:
Why is LS being compared to Ali? Frodo is a much better all round Triathlete as is Gomez, I could understand the comparisons with these two who have a similar pedigree, bizzare!

You must be new here...
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Re: Alistair Brownlee 70.3 Dubai [oscaro] [ In reply to ]
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Got a update from a team member who raced, who said that the run wasn’t short, but the timing mats were misplaced.

Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon
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Re: Alistair Brownlee 70.3 Dubai [oscaro] [ In reply to ]
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I'd love to see AB pulling a Kamworor. (Kamworor won Halfmarathon and/or XC worlds in the spring, got a global medal on the track in the summer and went on to nail a fall marathon). But I guess ITU and Ironman is more difficult to juggle than track and marathon. And for AB to win in Tokyo he needs the full focus and with that commitment he is not going to crush Kona until afterwards.

So I hope he goes all in for the 2020 double gold and on the way he still gets to race some 70.3s. So he can already learn more about time trialing and tinker with his position and test some nutrition. And then in 2021 he can really attack the island.

10k - 30:48 / half - 1:06:40
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Re: Alistair Brownlee 70.3 Dubai [Jackets] [ In reply to ]
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Jackets wrote:
Why is LS being compared to Ali? Frodo is a much better all round Triathlete as is Gomez, I could understand the comparisons with these two who have a similar pedigree, bizzare!

LS vs AB each athlete has 1 in the win column each as a 1 in the loss column. So given that, I think LS 0.500 win percentage is worthy. I think he has a much higher winning percentage compared to almost every athlete on the planet who has gone up against AB. Too bad LS did not make it over to Dubai
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Re: Alistair Brownlee 70.3 Dubai [imswimmer328] [ In reply to ]
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I don’t know if you follow sanders on strava, social media etc... look at some of his files but his workouts and races show great results! 3x5k at 15-17 minutes is quite some strength for just a workout. U see his stuff on zwift? I don’t think so. I don’t think he’s god but he’s one strong athlete and it would be cool seeing him up against brownlee
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Re: Alistair Brownlee 70.3 Dubai [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
Jackets wrote:
Why is LS being compared to Ali? Frodo is a much better all round Triathlete as is Gomez, I could understand the comparisons with these two who have a similar pedigree, bizzare!


LS vs AB each athlete has 1 in the win column each as a 1 in the loss column. So given that, I think LS 0.500 win percentage is worthy. I think he has a much higher winning percentage compared to almost every athlete on the planet who has gone up against AB. Too bad LS did not make it over to Dubai

To be fair that is a very small sample.

Sanders deserves to be in the conversation. But at present he can't be held in the same regard as Brownlee, Frodo and Gomez. He hasn't done enough. That may change.
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Re: Alistair Brownlee 70.3 Dubai [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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Awesome! How to turn a thread about Ali Brownlee in a thread about LS. I love slowtwitch - some of the posts on here make me laugh out loud. Chapeau!

He who understands the WHY, will understand the HOW.
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Re: Alistair Brownlee 70.3 Dubai [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
Jackets wrote:
Why is LS being compared to Ali? Frodo is a much better all round Triathlete as is Gomez, I could understand the comparisons with these two who have a similar pedigree, bizzare!

LS vs AB each athlete has 1 in the win column each as a 1 in the loss column. So given that, I think LS 0.500 win percentage is worthy. I think he has a much higher winning percentage compared to almost every athlete on the planet who has gone up against AB. Too bad LS did not make it over to Dubai

Ali shows up in his debut long course and beats LS with reletive ease.

The other race Ali DNF (still convinced he was using the race as training run for ITU Leeds)

How good will Ali be with all LS IM experience has to be a worry for the LS fan club on here?
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Re: Alistair Brownlee 70.3 Dubai [oscaro] [ In reply to ]
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So Kona 2019- Ali, Gomez, Frodo, Lange, Sanders, McNamee, Nilsson
Pretty stacked field but I think most of them will be fighting for bronze!

Yeah, probably a likely outcome if all of them are racing at their best. Alistair and Gomez still has to prove full distance but if they have same success as Frodo had which is likely, Ironman distance gonna be extremely interesting.
Nilsson seemed to have some problem in Dubai. Hope he solvs that
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Re: Alistair Brownlee 70.3 Dubai [Mkraz] [ In reply to ]
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There's a lot more than strength involved in a technical bike ride
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Re: Alistair Brownlee 70.3 Dubai [oscaro] [ In reply to ]
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oscaro wrote:
You are correct that it is a pretty flat course, but as many have pointed out, it is also windy which favors Alistair. Also, im not sure why you wouldn’t take the 1:58 at face value, do you not think he can produce that bike split? If so you are very mistaken, which I think he will prove nicely during the other 70.3 this year. Alistair is a monster on the bike, as well as the swim and run.
I still don't get how AB's superior descending skills give him an advantage here. Flat, straight course with a slight downhill and tailwind on the way home? What descending skills does that require? If anything I would think this course would be a disadvantage to Ali since he's one of the best moto-drafters in the sport, and the tailwind would reduce the benefit of slipstream IMG the lead moto. Flat courses are more of an pure-watts race rather than watts/kilo, no? So Ab would have an advantage in, say Zell am see, but not here.
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Re: Alistair Brownlee 70.3 Dubai [oscaro] [ In reply to ]
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oscaro wrote:
Yes it is strange, and even more strange that Alistairs biking pedigree is being questioned.
So Kona 2019- Ali, Gomez, Frodo, Lange, Sanders, McNamee, Nilsson
Pretty stacked field but I think most of them will be fighting for bronze!

Provided they all even arrive on the line. Illness, injury, car wrecks (ala Tim Don), or a host of other obstacles often prevent names in any big race from getting there. Let's hope it is a clear and free year for all to get there ready at their best with no in race issues.
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