I believe we are in agreement. See my post 47 above!

interesting detail from official results is that ali had some of the slowest transition times of the male pros. really does seem like he was on cruise control with this win, which suggests there's a whole lot left in the tank for him at this distance.

-mike

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https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

I'm with you, I think he pulled his foot off the accellerator a little especially closing out the run.. and he ran a 1:16. No one is catching him with an 8 minute lead heading into a half.

Not to mention he also would have won the Cozumel Grand Final if he hadn't stopped for the infamous carry of Johnny for the final stretch (Schoeman only caught him once he was helping his brother up...).

He certainly has shown more weakness in heat than in epically crappy days, but he's also shown that he's a big day racer, so i wouldn't count him out if he ever decides to give Kona a go...

Gomez and the Brownlee's are in a different league to anyone who's ever compete in Kona as complete Triathletes there's potential for them to take things to another level, just as they did at Oly distance.

This is huge! Alistair is the best one day racer in the world, and when he sets his mind on Kona, he is going to be 100% ready.

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

He's capable of that, for sure, and I hope he does.

I think his main issue is nutrition, more than heat. London 2010 was nutrition, and he mentioned issues with nutrition at St George 70.3. He'll need hard, competitive full distances races, in heat and humidity to test and find out what works otherwise it's an even bigger shot in the dark - and he needs his body to hold out for those as well as the big dance itself.

Whatever lead he has coming out of the Energy lab on the run I'll be nervous as hell because at any point he could start reeling across the road....it's going to be exciting....

Of course it is, he has mainly competed in events where a few gels are enough. But he has gotten better at nutrition and will keep working on it throughout the year. I don't get all the comments about him preforming in the heat tbh, the only real question is can he keep himself injury free.
I think Alistair is a bit like Bekele, they have both had tremendous careers, and also quite a few injuries. If both of them are 100%, no one else is coming close to them, and even if they're 95% it is usually enough for the W. Bekele managed to bounce back from the dead after a long injury and has found success in the marathon, and now we will see if Alistair can do the same.

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

Totally agree!

Title of the thread : Ali Brownlee - IRONMAN 70.3 Liuzhou

Another thread turned into a sanders thread. I understand people's obsession with sanders but it is a little off-putting that slowtwitch posts are all about his fans comparing him to everyone and overplaying his strengths. Let the guy win a world championship (itu long course is less competitive than a regional championship) and then you can flood the threads. Until he gets that big win I consider him another up and coming pro who improves season by season, but still hasn't been able to beat the best at kona or 70.3 worlds where it counts the most. For all of you guys that seem to be underestimating ali brownlee, remember he is considered the best one day racer by a lot of the community. This is a guy that delivers masterful performances on the days that people dream about for four years.

I love your choice of words: "on the days people dream about for four years", and actually i would say that many young swimmers and runners start dreaming about the Oly as early as 7 yrs old. If they make the team at age 22, that's 15 yrs of dreaming and, if they go back at 26 and 30, then 23 yrs of dreaming. Hell, some guys keep trying into their mid to late 30s: Jason Lezak did not retire from swimming until he was 37, so 30 full years of dreaming, and his dreams actually did come true. :)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Exactly. I'm waiting for Sanders to maybe ride up to them just before T2, then as they all head out for the run Ali & Frodo turn to him and say 'you're not in Kansas anymore Toto".....then proceed to put 10 min into him in the marathon

That's funny. Unless Ali stops pushing the pedals, he will not "ride up" on Ali.

Good to see you brit fanboys have recovered from Ali's 10th place at CW games.

Remind me where Sanders placed at the CW this year?

I think he was busy that day internet shopping for speedplay aero pedals

While I somewhat agree, aren't you forgetting a former gold medalist and two time Kona winner?

Nope, Ali and Gomez are another class above Jan. Jan did a great olympics, but otherwise he didn’t dominate itu and actually didn’t get any real success (beside the oly gold ofc) until he moved to ld.

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

Nope, Ali and Gomez are another class above Jan.

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Except they are only more dominant at ITU. Projecting that they are a different class in Kona at the current time is pretty simply BS conjecture *at the current time*. Neither has even toed the line in Kona once, and yall have them as Kona Gods status.

ETA: Are they the most complete triathletes to come to LC- yes. That's about all we can say. Anything more is simply conjecture as to how they will actually do on race day. Let's let them build up a Kona race resume before we decide how good/bad they actually are at LC.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Well neither I nor Jackets said anything about how they would do, we just said that they are in a different league from anyone who has tied the line in Kona.
And for the record, I wouldn’t say it’s just bs conjecture, just a bit of logic. In running most runners who are successful in 5/10k track are successful when they move to the marathon as well. Sure there are exceptions as with anything, but the point stands.
Same logic goes in tri, if someone dominates itu, there’s a good chance they will do the same when they move up in distance.

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

And for the record, I wouldn’t say it’s just bs conjecture, just a bit of logic.

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Except for specificity. Which is the point. Those guys haven't even fully immersed themsevles into LC racing, and you guys are claiming they are already a step above the current LC athletes. That's completely conjecture.


ETA: Which is why I always kinda cringe when talking LC "greats" because it's so dependent on doing well in Kona heat. Like no other sport's championship is that so tied to a specific enviornment. That's so much different than talking the greats of itu or other sports where the championships always involve more than 1 race site.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Yes, we said they are a step above current lc athletes, which is true. Just because Gomez and Alistair haven't done Kona yet, doesn't mean they can't be better athletes than the ones who have.
Really don't see the issue here, and it is quite logical. Just look at the odd 70.3 races they have entered, they crush the entire field and jog it home. Sebi said after St George that he came 2nd in the non-alien division.
Sure, as I mentioned there is a chance that neither of them will do well in Kona, but as we have seen time and time again when athletes move up they succeed more often than not which is true for most sports.

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

Gomez and the Brownlee's were finishing an Oly distance course around a minute quicker than Frodo.

Frodo moves up from ITU and pretty much dominates long since, the odds are that at least one of the three from both Brownlee's or Gomez is going to adjust to long well and translate that minute they had over Jan to even more over long? Maybe?

The issue is that IM specific to 140.6 is directly tied to 1 race and 1 race only- Kona. Unlike ITU or even 70.3 where championships are won by a much broader depth of athlete and it's championship races are raced over a much broader race environment. We have no clue how they'll handle the heat and the distance in Kona. They could crush XYZ IM events and struggle in Kona for whatever reason, or they show up and totally crush it. But we don't know how they'll handle it, *yet*. So saying they are a step above is kinda pointless at this point. It's conjecture and has real no meaning or depth as it pertains to Kona...which is what the comment was geared towards.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

. Just look at the odd 70.3 races they have entered, they crush the entire field and jog it home.

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And this is sorta my whole point. You keep injecting how they are doing at 70.3 and then only forecasting what you *think* may happen at IM and Kona. Look are they the most complete athletes to come to LC- yes. Does that automatically make them a step above at IM distance? Hell no




So let's let them actually race some IM distance races and jog it home before we say they are a step above the current IM pro field. Anything else is again simply conjecture.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Well I look at it from a statistical standpoint, and since it is more probable that they will be successful than not, that is the line I'm going with.
It also seems like a really strange way to look at things if you can't compare athletes who haven't done the same races. And imo there are several ways to objectively say one is better than the other.
I can say that Lange is not as good of a runner as Alistair, even though they haven't run the same events. Sure I can't know for sure how any of them will do in Kona, but we can say the same thing about the current Kona crowd. Jan showed that even seasoned Kona veterans can have a bad day.

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon