If you're under 40, the whole age group thing is a bit of a sham anyway.

An "Elite" class? between pro and age groups? But what would be the incentive to do that instead of entering in your age group?

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"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"

Maybe it would be a bit more prestigious? There is no rule that states you have to get your pro card but way under 9hrs for an IM ''age grouper?'' If you are an athletic individual who puts in the required work and does so in the correct fashion, the age group race is usually close. There was 20 minutes between 2nd and 3rd for the 30-34. The top 4 also went under 9 hrs?!?! cough, pro card, cough, cough

Top AG men routinely beat the top pro women.

Top AG men often beat pros having a bad or mediocre day.

Top AG men almost never hit the money in big races, which is the true sign if you should be a pro or not. That along with your ambition to actually want to be one. Just breaking an hour in the swim or 3 hours on the run, or 4;30 on the bike is ok if the courses are legit(which it appears they were not), so next you go to the comparison phase with wonky short courses. Did any of these guys make the money?

They are AG'ers because they choose to be, later on they may choose different. I always find it funny when people like you complain about a system that is running just as it should. You rise in the AG ranks high enough to sniff the back end of the pros, then make a decision if or when you make the jump. There is always going to be top AG'ers, even when most of the guys you describe move out, someone else just moves in. This is the area known as AAA racing. We always had it, always will. Just in my day no one got butt hurt by people that beat them, and then tried to come up with some justification why they shouldn't even be allowed to race such an event in that category, usually because they would then move up in the ranks. Very petty if you ask me..

Nothing petty nor does my butt actually hurt. Not even close to being in contention with these individuals. These people dont just ''sniff the back end of the pros'' they kick it. Not going to go back and forth but hands down 8hrs 30 min is a bit fast to call yourself an age grouper. Get your pro card and stop taking age group qualifying spots.

As Crowie and Cam Brown (and many more before them) have proven, everything under 44 should be open.

Rob Barel finished 43rd in the Olympic games triathlon at the age of 42.xx. He was born in 1957 and raced the Sydney Olympics for Holland in 2000. No need for age groups below 45. It's just an artificial distinction for really no good reason. You could keep a 23 and under age group (Espoirs category type of thing like they have in cycling) since athletes are not fully developed before that.

IT wasn't an 8;30 first of all, add in all the short minutes for the bike and run first before you spout out times please.

And who do you think it should be deciding when someone goes just sub 9 hours when and if they should turn pro? You? Me? Or perhaps each person should decide their own path in the sport, that would be a good thing, wouldn't it? Or are you one of these guys that wants to make some more rules about who can race which races, and which categories? Who got so hurt here that you feel you have to defend your position, butt hurt or not?

Soooooo new age group 23-44?, all holds barred first 20 people across the line get kona slots. Got it

Already have a thread for this:

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...0a%20biatch#p1566945

Now we are not complaining about people being too slow and therefore not "legit" Ironmen/women, but now we are going to worry about people who are too fast??? This seems a bit far-fetched.

In my mind someone who is a Professional athlete is trying to make a living off the proceeds of her racing. If a wicked fast cashier/attorney/barista shows up and kicks ass on a given day, whose right is it to tell she has to quit her day job?

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Patti in NJ

Im looking at an Edge, clay who went 8:30:24, his partner in crime Guiliano, Ryan went 8:36:35. I have added the seconds to the final time please referr to the update. There is no hard or fast rule that is the point to the discussion but I will gladly give you the power to decide when people should grab that elusive pro card. There are more than one sexuality these days why not make multiple classes. Get with the times man!!!! Does this hit close to home with you? Were you one of these sandbaggers back in your prime? And once again, facilitating a discussion with my opinion. Thank you.

I'm only asking this because I don't know.....

If you go 8:3X:XX racing as a pro.....will that get you into Kona?
Would it have won you any money in TX?

If the answer to both is "no".....it's fairly obvious why they race as an AG'er.

Maybe they don't want to enter the drug testing pool
Maybe they don't want stricter drafting rules

But seriously, it makes no sense not choosing to take your pro card given the amount of money pro triathletes earn.

For those who have opted not to take their pro card and not to be eligible for prize money, why not?

There are more than one sexuality these days why not make multiple classes. //

SO you are fighting for a transgender category, man you have lost me, not sure what you are arguing about anymore. And back in most of my day we all raced together, fields were smaller and they could get away with that. But we pushed hard to get a pro split from the AG'ers once there was some money being offered. Then we fought hard to get the Womens race split off from the male AG'ers. For awhile there was an in-between category of elite, think a couple races may still have it, but it was an experiment that just didn't take, as in most were not really happy with it. So it got changed in most cases and we have what you see today. I think it works pretty well, I can't think of any meaningful changes that would make it better(for the majority, not the podium scratchers that just aren't making it) If you have a good idea, put it forth, don't just complain. People that just complain without any solutions(good ones) are just noisemakers.


And yes I was a sandbagger in my day, I won about 60 pro races and did not upgrade myself to the Zeus division, shame on me...

This thread is an embarrassment, even by Slowtwitch standards, but it's funny that neither of the guys you mentioned even took slots at Texas.

But hey, why would anyone be expected to actually know what they are talking about before posting on this site....

Until you start seeing age groupers going 7:50-8:10 or so, I don't think there is any reason to complain here. Some people are naturally gifted, train hard, and are rewarded with speed. 8:30 is fast for an age grouper but it's slow for a pro time. Look at it this way, the winning pro time was still about 40 minutes faster than the winning age group time. I would be pretty ticked to win the amateur race only to be "forced" for some reason to take a pro card, and suddenly go from winning to getting my ass kicked.

I always smile when I see these threads. There is ALWAYS someone faster, period. Always folks born with the better parents.
Technically, all this pro/elite/AG stuff is just to have these businesses make more money by allowing more to say they "won", etc.
This is why for me I could care less about podium stuff, especially as I am now 60 and way fewer let alone fast folks. I just race against the clock
for me against others in the clock. I just try to not get geezer-ed, or chicked very often. Will not be long that I am just happy to be able to finish.

And I do love out running the younger folks. :) But in single sport, my running is nothing. :(

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

That last sentence is only funny because it came from you!

Clay Emge (Mr 8:30) did race as a pro for a season or two. I think he explained why he went back to the age group ranks in an ST interview. worrh a read to those who are truly concerned...

If it helps, Clay didn't take his kona slot anyway.

It's a tough spot to be in as making the leap to being a pro for some isn't just as easy as "well i qualify, so ill take my card". It takes a completely different level of commitment to truly race as a professional and when you are working a full time job with a family the priority really needs to be family-work-triathlon. I haven't spoken to Clay about it personally but I know that's the rationale for a lot of guys.

I also agree with Dev's idea of just having a 23-4x age group

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Team Every Man Jack

Because they already have spots from last years races.... that wasnt the point of the thread

I agree which was the point of the thread. They are inbetween a pro and an age grouper (closer to the pro side) I understand they wouldnt make jack in regards to money or living as a pro and I dont think they are trying to do that. If you work a solid 40+ hour week job (not just coaching other athletes and being able to train) and didn't swim bike or run in college you are a textbook age grouper... for all else, elite cat?

Really? That's weird. Since Clay is a friend and a teammate of mine, I should let him know he took a slot at some point last year. He is going to be pretty surprised!

And what is your point then? That arguably the two fastest long course AG athletes in the country are faster than a lot of pros? Yeah, that's typically the way it works.

yes, please let him know immediately. He has a race to win in October. Thanks buddy