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Age Grouper Busted
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the guy was cheating to do an 11-hour IM???

http://www.sportsintegrityinitiative.com/...ping-rule-violation/
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Re: Age Grouper Busted [mag900] [ In reply to ]
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here is the link to the group that USADA is targeting. Anyone know where this fine organization is located?

http://anemiapatientgroup.blogspot.com/
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Re: Age Grouper Busted [mag900] [ In reply to ]
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mag900 wrote:
the guy was cheating to do an 11-hour IM???

http://www.sportsintegrityinitiative.com/...ping-rule-violation/

Does it matter what his time was? Maybe the guy made a bet with his wife that he could break 11 hours.

Is a 9 hour IM cool? Sure. But an 11 hour IM is also cooler than a 14 hr, or 16 hour, or a DNF. Cheating helps slow people just as much as fast people.
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Re: Age Grouper Busted [Yeeper] [ In reply to ]
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actually it does and i think that busting faster people who are on the podium is better. this guy's 11-hour race didn't take anything from anyone else (other than bumping everyone behind him down 1 spot in the results). someone who podiums IS taking something away from others that is much more substantial than just 1 spot lower in the results as they are getting awards, cash and maybe even a slot at nationals, worlds or kona. don't get me wrong, i'm very glad that this guy got busted but it is without question that not every bust is the same. LA's bust was the mother of all busts.
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Re: Age Grouper Busted [mag900] [ In reply to ]
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I would go as far as saying at least 1 in the top 5 in every age group is doping or taking a supplement they don't even realize is banned substance.
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Re: Age Grouper Busted [mag900] [ In reply to ]
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mag900 wrote:
actually it does and i think that busting faster people who are on the podium is better. this guy's 11-hour race didn't take anything from anyone else (other than bumping everyone behind him down 1 spot in the results). someone who podiums IS taking something away from others that is much more substantial than just 1 spot lower in the results as they are getting awards, cash and maybe even a slot at nationals, worlds or kona. don't get me wrong, i'm very glad that this guy got busted but it is without question that not every bust is the same. LA's bust was the mother of all busts.

If everyones position behind him was affected, then he affected a lot of racers. It doesn't matter what the finished position was.

By your logic, Agers could cheat and dope for years until they got fast enough, stop doping and then reap the training benefits to finish up top.

I have to disagree very adamantly. Cheating is cheating. What message are you sending to anyone with that attitude? What do you tell your kids? or nieces and nephews? Or anyone you might come into contact with? Cheating is ok until you're in the spotlight?

For the sport, it is better is everyone is treated the same and held to the same standards, professional or Ager. Everyone is given the same respect and everyone should maintain the same integrity and be a proponent for the sport itself.
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Re: Age Grouper Busted [mag900] [ In reply to ]
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interesting...same EPO outlet investigation that bagged this guy...who, if it's the same guy (age, hometown(s) match) that shows up on athlinks, has a similarly underwhelming IM time but also has a fair number of short-distance multisport OA and AG podiums to his "credit". Small races, to be sure, but the point is you don't have to be an IM stud (assisted or otherwise) to have pretty good results in shorter stuff.

Carl Matson
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Re: Age Grouper Busted [Yeeper] [ In reply to ]
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Yeeper wrote:
mag900 wrote:
actually it does and i think that busting faster people who are on the podium is better. this guy's 11-hour race didn't take anything from anyone else (other than bumping everyone behind him down 1 spot in the results). someone who podiums IS taking something away from others that is much more substantial than just 1 spot lower in the results as they are getting awards, cash and maybe even a slot at nationals, worlds or kona. don't get me wrong, i'm very glad that this guy got busted but it is without question that not every bust is the same. LA's bust was the mother of all busts.


If everyones position behind him was affected, then he affected a lot of racers. It doesn't matter what the finished position was.

By your logic, Agers could cheat and dope for years until they got fast enough, stop doping and then reap the training benefits to finish up top.

I have to disagree very adamantly. Cheating is cheating. What message are you sending to anyone with that attitude? What do you tell your kids? or nieces and nephews? Or anyone you might come into contact with? Cheating is ok until you're in the spotlight?

For the sport, it is better is everyone is treated the same and held to the same standards, professional or Ager. Everyone is given the same respect and everyone should maintain the same integrity and be a proponent for the sport itself.

huh? did you miss the part when i wrote "don't get me wrong, i'm very glad that this guy got busted"?

no. not everyone is treated the same. it's expensive to drug test and there are very limited resources being allocated to it. you are nuts if you think that the very limited resources should be spread equally amongst the fast, the average and the slow. this is particularly true at the professional level where people are making a living. it is beyond ridiculous to think that someone cheating at the pro level and beating other clean pros (and thereby depriving them of real prize money) is the exact same as some 11-hour IM person knocking everyone after him down 1 spot in the results. is that really what you think???
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Re: Age Grouper Busted [Yeeper] [ In reply to ]
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Believe it or not, there's a big group of people that are shooting for more than "to just finish" an IM. The 11 hour threshold means that an AG athlete is probably placing (roughly) in the top 25% of a race and that's pretty good. In fact, I know a bunch of people that had that very same finishing goal for their full distance races and would be bummed to know they were racing against doped athletes.

Everyone has a different set of goals and if there's a person, no matter how fast or "slow", affecting the results, that's bad for sport.
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Re: Age Grouper Busted [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
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looks like they have only two members and they must be shy, no profile pics.

Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.
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Re: Age Grouper Busted [mag900] [ In reply to ]
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mag900 wrote:
Yeeper wrote:
mag900 wrote:
actually it does and i think that busting faster people who are on the podium is better. this guy's 11-hour race didn't take anything from anyone else (other than bumping everyone behind him down 1 spot in the results). someone who podiums IS taking something away from others that is much more substantial than just 1 spot lower in the results as they are getting awards, cash and maybe even a slot at nationals, worlds or kona. don't get me wrong, i'm very glad that this guy got busted but it is without question that not every bust is the same. LA's bust was the mother of all busts.


If everyones position behind him was affected, then he affected a lot of racers. It doesn't matter what the finished position was.

By your logic, Agers could cheat and dope for years until they got fast enough, stop doping and then reap the training benefits to finish up top.

I have to disagree very adamantly. Cheating is cheating. What message are you sending to anyone with that attitude? What do you tell your kids? or nieces and nephews? Or anyone you might come into contact with? Cheating is ok until you're in the spotlight?

For the sport, it is better is everyone is treated the same and held to the same standards, professional or Ager. Everyone is given the same respect and everyone should maintain the same integrity and be a proponent for the sport itself.


huh? did you miss the part when i wrote "don't get me wrong, i'm very glad that this guy got busted"?

no. not everyone is treated the same. it's expensive to drug test and there are very limited resources being allocated to it. you are nuts if you think that the very limited resources should be spread equally amongst the fast, the average and the slow. this is particularly true at the professional level where people are making a living. it is beyond ridiculous to think that someone cheating at the pro level and beating other clean pros (and thereby depriving them of real prize money) is the exact same as some 11-hour IM person knocking everyone after him down 1 spot in the results. is that really what you think???

You have to separate the prize aspect. Remove objective data here. Cheating is wrong. Period. I saw that you said you were glad he got busted but you also prefaced that by saying that the time matters and that someone cheating thats faster is somehow MORE WRONG than someone who is slower. Cheating compromises the integrity of the sport and it send a terrible message if everyone adopted the idea that its ok if you're not "placing" or winning money. Its a moral issue, not a monetary one.

I think a few Agers getting busted once in a while is a great thing for the sport because it sends the message that it won't be tolerated at any level of competition and none is safe anywhere. Everyone should expect to be held accountable to the SAME standards. You need to deter cheating as a whole in the sport, not just at the top tiers.

You're using money (prizes not won and costs of testing) to justify cheating at some level of the sport. I'm not saying you think cheating is OK, I'm saying that my interpretation of your posts thus far imply that cheating by slower AGers is acceptable or more acceptable than from someone else. And because they didn't win prize money or a podium spot then they didn't take anything away from any other racer on the course. Correct me if I am wrong.


^THAT is absurd to me.
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Re: Age Grouper Busted [trainlighter] [ In reply to ]
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trainlighter wrote:
Believe it or not, there's a big group of people that are shooting for more than "to just finish" an IM. The 11 hour threshold means that an AG athlete is probably placing (roughly) in the top 25% of a race and that's pretty good. In fact, I know a bunch of people that had that very same finishing goal for their full distance races and would be bummed to know they were racing against doped athletes.

Everyone has a different set of goals and if there's a person, no matter how fast or "slow", affecting the results, that's bad for sport.

Exactly. I agree 100%. That sub 12 hour mark is a target for a lot of people. But someone could cheat just to finish the race at the last second as well. Its still wrong.
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Re: Age Grouper Busted [mag900] [ In reply to ]
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You realize this guy was busted not via a drug test, but via an investigation into a supplier? Pretty sure USADA didn't look up the guy in athlinks.com to see if he was "fast enough" for them to bust.

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: Age Grouper Busted [Yeeper] [ In reply to ]
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now you are just making things up. i NEVER said that doping is more wrong if it is done by faster people or "acceptable" by age groupers (really???). i think that it more understandable why someone would dope if it meant that they would earn more money and i don't have to separate the monetary aspect of it. i don't know what to tell you if you can't see a difference in motivations for doping if it is driven by wanting to earn more money versus moving up from 500th place to 400th place for better bragging rights with your wife. it's all wrong and i am glad that USADA now is starting to nail more amateurs.

i am confused as to why you are making up strawman positions for me and then attacking them.
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Re: Age Grouper Busted [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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the article expressly says there wasn't a failed drug test, so yes, i am aware of that.
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Re: Age Grouper Busted [trainhard] [ In reply to ]
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trainhard wrote:
I would go as far as saying at least 1 in the top 5 in every age group is doping or taking a supplement they don't even realize is banned substance.

I am not trying to be a troll here but what substances could someone be taking that would be illegal that they do not realize are banned???
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Re: Age Grouper Busted [Jamie] [ In reply to ]
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Testosterone for example... I know it's obvious but believe it or not there are a lot of dumbasses who don't think it's banned. See the "Testosterone before a 70.3" thread here just a few weeks ago.


Jamie wrote:
trainhard wrote:
I would go as far as saying at least 1 in the top 5 in every age group is doping or taking a supplement they don't even realize is banned substance.


I am not trying to be a troll here but what substances could someone be taking that would be illegal that they do not realize are banned???
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Re: Age Grouper Busted [sp1ke] [ In reply to ]
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Predinsone which I was taking for an infections. Had no clue it was banned. To much caffeine, guys on inhaler without TUE. ALso a simple Vicks inhaler has banned substance in it. Have to be careful and I know the average person who decides hey I want to try and do a ironman they could care less about banned substance
Last edited by: trainhard: Jun 5, 15 10:20
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Re: Age Grouper Busted [mag900] [ In reply to ]
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mag900 wrote:
now you are just making things up. i NEVER said that doping is more wrong if it is done by faster people or "acceptable" by age groupers (really???). i think that it more understandable why someone would dope if it meant that they would earn more money and i don't have to separate the monetary aspect of it. i don't know what to tell you if you can't see a difference in motivations for doping if it is driven by wanting to earn more money versus moving up from 500th place to 400th place for better bragging rights with your wife. it's all wrong and i am glad that USADA now is starting to nail more amateurs.

i am confused as to why you are making up strawman positions for me and then attacking them.

Please go back and re-read your own post # 4. You said it was better for them to bust faster racers or podiums. You also said an 11 hour AGer doesnt take anything away from anyone else.

You absolutely have to remove money from this. I did not make anything up, Im responding to your own words.
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Re: Age Grouper Busted [Yeeper] [ In reply to ]
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now i understand. you don't understand the difference between whether doping is more wrong amongst different athletes (it's not), whether doping is more understandable when it is done by someone who has more to gain (it is and cash/kona slots are more than bragging rights to your wife) and whether it's better for USADA and WADA to use their miniscule and finite resources in the pursuit of busting pros or top AGers (it is).

i also expressly said that an 11-hour AGer moves everyone behind him down 1 spot so i don't know how you read that as not taking anything away from anyone else.

i still am not sure why you are making up statements by me only to attack them. i think that ALL doping is wrong and am happy when any doper (fast or slow) gets busted.
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Re: Age Grouper Busted [trainhard] [ In reply to ]
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I'd be willing to bet that last one, inhaler without a TUE (even though they're probably eligible, just haven't done the paperwork), is actually a somewhat common occurrence.
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Re: Age Grouper Busted [trainhard] [ In reply to ]
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No TUE for an inhaler (albuterol); primatene, the OTC inhaler is banned in competition. I keep the Global RDO in my bookmarks, and I am pack fodder. I have no need to be the AG pariah that got caught taking something that is banned.

Pactimo brand ambassador, ask me about promo codes
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Re: Age Grouper Busted [Carl] [ In reply to ]
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what do you think is going on here, carl? do you think USADA somehow got the records of this company? interesting. i'd like to know how that happened.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Age Grouper Busted [Yeeper] [ In reply to ]
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It costs money to catch cheaters. mag900 has a point in that there is more value in catching the people at the top. Neither of us are saying that there is no value in catching people mid-pack, just that there is a better return on investment if they're catching the guys at the top. Best case: catch every cheater. But I don't think that you or anyone else actually thinks that catching 5 guys in the middle would be better than 5 at the top.
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Re: Age Grouper Busted [MTBSully] [ In reply to ]
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Caffeine, in no longer banned by WADA, but is included in the WADA monitoring program.
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