My personal field testing trying all these positions is the bottom left one is the fastest (and it seems like it presents the lowest frontal to the wind). Kienle demo-ing on the Hawi descent . My personal experience is I have been able to keep up with anyone pedaling coming down from Hawi in this tuck at zero watts....but I am around age groupers not using 60 tooth front chainrings.

The position Pantani is pretty good, but I found it too unsafe with a saddle and post in front of my body when you have to "react". Position "Froome" I also found unsafe since it feels like you are riding a front wheel unicyle with not much weight on the back wheel and not a great way to steer the back wheel.

The "top tube safe", I basically put most of my weight on my feet and my triceps are compressed ready to pop a pushup and get back into a normal "back horizontal" position. You basically throw the bike forward and down with your triceps and your butt ends up on the saddle. Also in the Kienle position you can steer the rear wheel by using your butt against the seat post (your connection to rear wheel).

This is awesome. The "top tube safe" position has always been my favorite for catching back up to the group on a descent after letting myself get tailed off at the top of a climb.

I have always used the "backdown" position but with my hand right tight to the stem. YES not as safe as having them close to the brakes but this has been very fast for me. Only use it where I know I can see what is coming.

I call this "folding myself" into the bike. The closer you can get to the frame the better. Applies to feet, legs, arms. CFD is nice but a bit overkill because you can feel wind reduction just riding it.

What would be cool - is in my Hyper-bike spec, I proposed ride height system with automatic lowering of the bike for these situations. Probably knock down another few %

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RIP Elephantino!

I thought "Position Froome" was technically known by Team Sky as "Frog on a Skateboard"?

Some more questions....the claim on % faster is that actual speed ? If so, at what baseline speed (say 60 kph for sitting up?). Also surprised that the Froome position is slower than "back down". Intuitively and based on field testing, I would have not thought so. Position Froome and position Kienle/top tub safe for me have been equally fast, I just don't trust myself doing the front wheel unicyle routine. That think "feels" like you could generate a forward recumbant rear wheel "wheelie" by kicking up your ankles with your hamstrings!

Good analysis.

I saw something similar to this last year, after Chris Froome did make is audacious attack on a long downhill descent at the Tour de France, that his chosen position, aka "The Froome" was, not optimal, but also very unsafe and un-stabilizing.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I would kill myself in anything but first two ;) I lack confidence (or recklessness!) to do this :(

Y no superman?

i would like to have seen "back horizontal" with hands on tops. seems like all the positions tested are with hands on drops.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Yeah, where's this in the pecking order?

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

I do feel this is my preferred go to when descending.

This is an ultimate superman position, however, it would be faster with a stubby helmet and head down. If he put his hands on the aerobars, he'd end up with a Michael Phelps approved streamline which we know is the fastest position in a fluid:

Also, the "back horizontal" or "back down" are often done with the hands right at the stem, which seems intuitively like it should reduce drag some more.

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ZONE3 - We Last Longer

Me too. SuperDave told me that during some of the testing Felt did with the then Garmin-Chipotle team, that hands on the brake hoods with back low and arms level was significantly faster than hands in the drops. He said drops were for sprinting, when you needed to pull up for more power.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Hello Rappstar and All,

Just call me a 'wuss' but I do not feel comfortable in a fast descent in the 'Pantani' or 'TopTubeSafe' especially if the road is rough or technical.

Now ..... after seeing this ........ I will feel like I am missing out on some speed .... but ..... discretion is the better part of valor .....

I like the 'Back Down' position and if the road is smooth maybe get my arms in closer to my body ... and get one shoe parallel to the ground like the picture.

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Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster

Would that not depend on how high or high low your hooks are. If you hooks are high enough so that you have back horizontal and forearms horizontal, then that would be equivalent to the position slowman is referring to?

I'm with you, I don't like the way the nose of my saddle can hit my lower back when I try to get out of the "top tube safe" position. The fastest position that I am generally willing to try is back down, chin on the top cap, hands on bar tops, feet level, elbows and knees narrowed. I learned to pinch the top tube with my knees to get more aero, but come to find out years later on slowtwitch this also probably had a role in reducing high speed wobble!

fascinating thread and diagram
like some others said - i'm way too big of a wimp to do any of these crazy methods (especially after I broke my arm in a fall a couple years ago)
I feel scared enough just going super fast downhill in a normal position!

If your "hooks" were that high your bars would be quite high. For example I have about a 13cm drop. When I ride on the hoods with my forearms parallel the "bulb end" of the brake level is in the palm of my hand and my forearms rest a bit on the top of the bar. For me to get in the same position on the drops as on the hoods I'd need to raise my bars roughly 8-10cm. I'd also probably require a 150 stem or more to get the same reach. Also I'd be using more muscle to hold my position in the drops with nothing to rest on.

Can I ride in the drops with parallel forearms as they are now? Yes, but I have to scoot up on the "rivet" and my head is near the stem. I use the drops to sprint and in crits where control is needed. My arms are bent in the drops, but I'm more aero and can maintain the hoods position for an extended time without much trouble.

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Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook

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I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html

I'll have to dig around for it, but a couple of the Holowesko pros went to A2 and tested descending positions and posted a video (I was not there). The "top tube safe" position was by far the fastest. I know in my experience descending around here, smaller lighter guys will pull away from me in that position and literally drop me out of the draft. If I super tuck I catch up and go flying by them. One needs to be pretty confident in their skill level to do it though as the bike can still get quite squirrelly.

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Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook