Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Aero Data Compendium
Quote | Reply
I’m looking to step up and get a new tri bike. It would make research a lot easier if there were some large collection of aero data, rather than pockets. Does anyone know? How do you find data on aerodynamics?
Quote Reply
Re: Aero Data Compendium [Driva77] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
http://www.aeroweenie.com/data.html is the only collection I know of
You do need to be very careful comparing datasets. Also a lot of the data is poorly analysed.
And some manufacturers really fudge it to get the results they want.
Quote Reply
Re: Aero Data Compendium [Driva77] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'd start by researching what bike gives you the best fit before I was too concerned about aero data
Quote Reply
Re: Aero Data Compendium [Driva77] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Yep, get a good fit and the frameset barely matters.
Quote Reply
Re: Aero Data Compendium [Driva77] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
As others have said, look at fit first and then go from there.
Quote Reply
Re: Aero Data Compendium [Driva77] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Driva77 wrote:
I’m looking to step up and get a new tri bike. It would make research a lot easier if there were some large collection of aero data, rather than pockets. Does anyone know? How do you find data on aerodynamics?
The frame itself (tube shapes etc) is well down the list of contributors to aerodynamic drag.
The rider is by far the biggest contributor but assuming you'll be in the same position (you should be), and wearing the same attire, regardless which frame you buy we can ignore the rider's drag for the most part. However, the relationship between your position and the bike frame's geometry, will dictate a lot of elements that will probably overshadow the drag due to the frame itself. Buying the wrong size frame will matter more than which frame you buy, as will buying a bike with too little stack which requires an inclined stem or many stem spacers, as opposed to longer head tube or relatively low drag elbow pad spacers. Fit first!

Despite the hyperbolic marketing and the obsession many of us display on ST, the reality is the bike frame is a very small part of the puzzle and among current decent quality frames, you're unlikely to make any significantly result altering mistakes so long as you can get into a reasonably low drag, relatively comfortable position that allows you produce good power. The longer your races will be the more vital the comfort aspect will be, but it's important regardless.

One of the reasons bike data may be hard to find, is that it's not all that useful. The cycling industry perpetuates the idea that speed can be accumulated by adding up the savings from all the various components, but the truth is the published numbers are very dependent on exact setup, and there is significant, sometimes vast, interaction between different elements related to drag and you can't simply add and subtract them like this. There's a lot of fiction going around, with a little reality mixed in. But in general, aerodynamics is far too complex to be dealt with this way. I've got a masters degree in aerodynamics, which one would suspect makes me one of the more qualified contributors on the subject, yet I rarely contribute a confident assertion on what will be better or worse or how interactions will play out. I like to think this is because I know enough to know what I don't (or can't) know. Console yourself with knowing that you're not losing out to people who've discovered a source of right answers. There is no simple source for such knowledge.
Quote Reply
Re: Aero Data Compendium [Driva77] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Maybe Tour magazine, which is German, has a TT/Tri wind tunnel comparison. I know they have done aero road bikes.

There isn’t really any evidence that TT bike aerodynamics differ a whole lot these days. All the designs from the big manufacturers are good. I would suggest considering two things. 1. Can you revise the cockpit easily? I think all the real gains these days are coming from a cleaner bar that allow a slightly raised hand position. Look to see if Wattshop or AeroCoach make a bar that will fit your bike. 2). Consider hydration. Bikes like the Speed Concept are fast in the tunnel as long as you don’t add water bottles. Two big bulky round bottles on a bike with a narrow down tube likely ruin the aerodynamics. Ronald Kuba tested aero water bottles on his SC and didn’t find any that got within 6 watts of no bottles.
Quote Reply
Re: Aero Data Compendium [Driva77] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Driva77 wrote:
I’m looking to step up and get a new tri bike. It would make research a lot easier if there were some large collection of aero data, rather than pockets. Does anyone know? How do you find data on aerodynamics?

X? on getting a bike that fits. If you are looking for bigger box brands get a Trek or Cervelo if you want to go boutique get a Dimond or TriRig. Stay away from brands that claim they can more or less get you the ~"finish line of Kona 17 minutes faster". Props to both TJ and Nick for building brands and being small business. I am sure they would appreciate your support in these tough times.


Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset
Quote Reply
Re: Aero Data Compendium [Driva77] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Some slowtwitchers compared some of the best bikes to an older Felt B model

https://drive.google.com/...c2pYSHJ1cVllUjQ/view

The fit is everything. Save some money for the right fit, clothes and helmet in that order.

Get a power meter and learn to aero test.
Quote Reply
Re: Aero Data Compendium [Driva77] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Not really, but here's some more bike info.

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/?post=6351660

The advice of a "get a good fit" is tired. Of course, you should get a good, professional fit that puts you in a fast position. But, you can also get a good fit on a fast frame. Like all things aero, a good fit and a fast frame are not mutually exclusive. Do both (and, if you can afford it, fast wheels, fast tires, fast tubes, fast helmet, fast clothes). None of that stuff is prohibited if you buy a fast frame that fits.

And there is a thread somewhere on here entitled something “buy this stuff; it’s a no brainer.”
Last edited by: DFW_Tri: Jul 10, 20 13:25
Quote Reply
Re: Aero Data Compendium [marcag] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
marcag wrote:
Some slowtwitchers compared some of the best bikes to an older Felt B model

https://drive.google.com/...c2pYSHJ1cVllUjQ/view

The fit is everything. Save some money for the right fit, clothes and helmet in that order.

Get a power meter and learn to aero test.


I'd argue that the aerobars are extremely important and deserve to be in that list. More important that many other things people like to spend $ on to save 2-3w (like aero brakes)

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Quote Reply
Re: Aero Data Compendium [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
desert dude wrote:
marcag wrote:
Some slowtwitchers compared some of the best bikes to an older Felt B model

https://drive.google.com/...c2pYSHJ1cVllUjQ/view

The fit is everything. Save some money for the right fit, clothes and helmet in that order.

Get a power meter and learn to aero test.


I'd argue that the aerobars are extremely important and deserve to be in that list. More important that many other things people like to spend $ on to save 2-3w (like aero brakes)

But is it the fastest bar or the bar that can get you in the fastest position ?
And then isn't it the bar that can get you in the right that works ideally on the chosen bike ?

I found bars really hard to compare. First, a lot of bikes don't allow for much change in the bar itself. I personally found testing that a good rise in the pads over the bar was better, but that requires a bike that can get me in the right position with that much rise. Which is why I love my Plasma 3 :-)

That being said I would give preference to a bike that allows me to change my aerobar.

Or a bike that chose to integrate a good bar. I am hearing rumors......
Quote Reply
Re: Aero Data Compendium [Driva77] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Driva77 wrote:
I’m looking to step up and get a new tri bike. It would make research a lot easier if there were some large collection of aero data, rather than pockets. Does anyone know? How do you find data on aerodynamics?

Here you go:

1. Position
2. Clothing
3. Tires and Tubes and Pressure
4. Aerobars
5. Helmet
6. Wheels
7. Storage and Hydration
8. Frame
9. Drivetrain Friction

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
Quote Reply
Re: Aero Data Compendium [marcag] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Getting a fast bar that is incredibly easy to adjust help with fitting and iterative testing. Alpha One does this very well.
Quote Reply
Re: Aero Data Compendium [iamuwere] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
iamuwere wrote:
Getting a fast bar that is incredibly easy to adjust help with fitting and iterative testing. Alpha One does this very well.

Absolutely agree. I see it as don't look for the "fastest bar" but find the bar that will allow you to find the "fastest fit".
Quote Reply
Re: Aero Data Compendium [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
DFW_Tri wrote:
Not really, but here's some more bike info.

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/?post=6351660

The advice of a "get a good fit" is tired. Of course, you should get a good, professional fit that puts you in a fast position. But, you can also get a good fit on a fast frame. Like all things aero, a good fit and a fast frame are not mutually exclusive. Do both (and, if you can afford it, fast wheels, fast tires, fast tubes, fast helmet, fast clothes). None of that stuff is prohibited if you buy a fast frame that fits.
The point is, fit may dictate which frame would be lowest drag. Fit should take precedence over any discrete frame drag testing. If you think that advice is tired, you still haven't understood it.
You don't just add together a position drag number and a frame drag number as you seem to be suggesting.

Your fit may make an otherwise "slower" frame into the fast frame. You're over-simplifying.
Quote Reply
Re: Aero Data Compendium [iamuwere] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
FWIW I tested with profile aeriea ultimate then swapped over to Alpha One's for the next session.

My grams of drag between the two sessions were nearly identical across the yaws I tested, <50gm difference between data points & sessions with my CDA being unchanged.

Which leads me to believe that the Profile Aeria Ultimate and Alpha One are more or less identical in aero performance across the yaw sweep I did. At least for me.

I'm pretty stable in the tunnel. Can do a whole testing session where my data points within each run and from Run A to the repeat of Run A are <30gm different.

The Alpha One is a whole lot easier & faster to adjust when you're testing.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Quote Reply