We had an interesting discussion some weeks ago about HIM run pace vs Open Marathon pace and for a lot of folks, when properly trained, those two seem to be very similar.

Considering your recent 1.22 @ 70.3 AZ, I definitely think you can break 2.50 @ CIM. Maybe even shoot for a more aggressive goal depending on how your marathon specific training block goes.

George:

Reasonable. Extremely reasonable with your foot speed and endurance base.

Taper the week before your race. Anything of double digit run distance could hinder your race performance.

Ween yourself off the bike and weights over the next week. You want to peak for the race. Hop back on the bike after the race to flush out the lactic acid and loosen up the muscles and joints.

If you're a racer, an open marathon is harder on the body compare to the IM 70.3 and even a full IM for many. Looking at your IM 70.3 times, you're a racer.

Start the race with a relaxed mile. Find your pace in Mile 2 and maintain as long as possible. Conservative pace is 6:30/mile (easier on the mind to track instead of 6:29). You could probably handle a 6:00 if you hold steady. You may pay for it post Mile 20, however with your endurance you will be able to keep going to the end. Suggest a 6:15 steady pace and then adjust after Mile 10, either up or down or hold depending on how you are running (not so much how you feel but how you are racing). With your talent, you're racing, not running. With your swim and weight training, you can utilize your arms more to keep you legs going. Arm rhythm dictates leg speed, not vice-versa. Strength will keep the legs striding further, faster, and going longer into the race.

I PR'd (2:41 if interested) in mari 7 weeks post an Oly focused tri season. Longest run was 7 miles, 12 in a day (did 2 a day's, 2 days a week in Weeks 5 & 4 weeks out), and 35 miles in a week. Most of my workouts were 3-5 miles due to time restrictions. I would not recommend you to go to 2 a days so close to race day.

Stay relaxed. Keep steady pace. Take on fuel and fluids. Race.

If you think you can't, you will be right. If you think you can, you will be right.

https://www.palmtreesahead.com/tactics2faster-new
https://www.palmtreesahead.com/coaching-style

This is a very individual thing and hard to say without knowing a lot more about your history and training, but in general marathon is a different animal than a half or HIM. A 2:50 on 25-35 mpw would be pretty badass. I hope you do it and definitely keep us posted but I’d also temper your expectations and maybe shoot for sub-3 in your first. Good luck!

I would say if you could get the next couple/few weeks in the 40+ range of mpw, at your 1/2 pace in the 70.s, you could be good for a 2;45 or there about. Do those 3 weeks, and then just pace really well at the race, go out in 1;23 or so, and go for a slight negative split. But that will be the key, not going out too hard, and eat a few squeezes starting at the 1/2 too(maybe one every 3 miles or so)

And keep in one long ride a week too, 3+ hours for your endurance, maybe one 17 to 19 mile run near race pace too..

CIM is def a fast course. Generally it allows folks to take off about 10 mins from their usual marathon time.
So... if you ran a 1:22 off the bike, that'd generally put you into the 1:17-1:18 range for the open marathon, which usually predicts about a 2:45 finish marathon time.
I'd say that for you a 2:50 finish at CIM should be possible, but with the lower than recommended weekly mileage... I'd target 2:55 and then re-evaluate at mile 20. If you are feeling great, you can make up some time in the last 6 miles.

---

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

I just ran a 2:55 open marathon (at NYC) off a 1:26 HIM run split (at Maine 70.3).

2:50 open marathon based on a 1:22 is very doable. Though I dedicated the last 10 weeks of the season to a proper marathon build & mileage.

Following up here!

Finish time at CIM was 2:49:53.

The 4 weeks leading up consisted of ~35 running miles per week (except the taper week) with 3-4 swims and 1-2 bikes (as outlined in the original post).

Went out at 6:30 and pretty much held it the whole race. Felt good until about mile 18ish and then it was just holding on for dear life (wow... marathons hurt in a way that triathlons don't)!

Considering the short amount of time I had to devout to marathon specific training, I am happy with the result! Thanks everyone on this thread for the advice! My overall takeaway is that a season of triathlon training gives you much of the cardiorespiratory (I think this is the right term?) fitness that is needed for a good marathon, but does not necessarily give you the muscular resilience to have your best run possible. But could be just me :)

Can't wait to see what is possible w/ a marathon specific build!

Awesome to hear your result. I'm planning the same for the Phoenix-Mesa marathon after finishing up a 70.3 race season. Curious what your weekly track session looked like and what your long run mileage topped out at in your 4 weeks of training?

Wow! Great finish considering the weather was pretty shitty that day. What a way to finish your first marathon. lol

---

- Jordan

My Strava

Long run in the block was 17 miles w/ 6 miles in the middle of the run at slightly faster than marathon pace (Ran this 6 at about 6:15 pace). The only other long run was a 14 mile run with a build to marathon pace in the last 30. All other supporting runs except for the key track session were between 7-12 miles, mostly easy for 35 miles per week total.

Here is what the main set of the 3 KEY track sessions looked like (all included a 20ish minute warm up, a pre-main set, and a cool down):

#1 - HILLS (This is the most difficult IMO if executed correctly)
MAIN SET:
6 x 60 sec FAST with high leg speed and power. Push off the big toe and keep the arms ‘pumping back’ while standing tall
1.5 min easy / rest between each.

5 min easy running then repeat the round.

6 x 60 sec FAST with high leg speed and power. Push off the big toe and keep the arms ‘pumping back’ while standing tall.

1.5 min easy / rest between each.


#2 - Yasso 800's (Many say if you do 10 reps instead of the 8 here, your average finish time for the 800 meter rep will be close to your marathon time, mine was 2:49...)

MAIN SET:
8 x 800m with 2:00 min soft jog in between reps.
#1 and 2 should be progressively building up in effort.
#3-8 should be pretty even at a strong 5k pace.

#3
MAIN SET:
- 4 x 1000 as:
800 at GOAL 5k pace.
200 FAST, picking up the pace as much as possible.
Rest 3 minutes actively between each.