Tom,

From someone who knows very little about this sport (but learning a lot every time I read this forum), I find reviews - yours and others - so helpful in sifting through all the crap and ads out there. Finding a bike for me (sizing not included) was more traumatizing than buying a car. But reading through things that, at the very least, say what weaknesses exist is so important and valuable, especially for someone who can't see them with his/her own eyes..

Hopefully, knowing that you have helped (what I'd guess is) a LOT of people with your opinions hopefully balances out the negative experiences.

Another note about specifically your reviews: When reading them, I assume you've seen just about everything this sport has to offer, both good and bad. That is why I pay attention to your reviews more than others. Your experience, along with the things others say/write about you, make me feel comfortable to trust what you write about something.

So as a result, I'll be getting a P2K, with Zero's. And yes, it fits.

okay, enough of the butt-kissing.

Thanks Mike, I appreciate your kind words. I also continue to ponder incorporating your suggestions into our reviews.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Tom,

For what it's worth, I really enjoy your reviews. I know a couple of newbies asking me about bikes. I told referred them to your site. Dan also writes good reviews. We've just gotta get him off his butt and start doing it again.

I find your comments about company's responses to your reviews to be dismaying.

My motivation (and enjoyment) with reading this site (and yours) is to hear other people's opinions. When I do read reviews I approach them as someones opinion.

The difference between a simple opinion and a review is that a review explains why you have a opinion and ideally how you came to that decision.

This the reader learns about what you value and as the reader you can compare your values to your own and to see if the opinions are appropriate to you.

It is this part of your reviews (and the ones on slowtwitch) that I like reading... I respect your need to protect your interests, but you should know that we appreciate the positive reviews as much as the negative ones.

Hmmmm... when I started this thread there was a point but I seem to have lost my train of thought

Tom,

I agree with your view on reviews. Take yours for example. At first, I loved your reviews. But as time went on, it seemed that you LOVED everything you reviewed (except the Litespeed Blade). I then figured your credibility was questionable until I'd read a number of your posts here. Now, I think I like ya. (I won't let IronmanLive off so easy... this is where I think the most BS is pushed out the door).

Running a Bike shop or doing Anything For A Living will make people question you. Hell, you could do BikeReviews.org ad-free and people would think you're making a mint under the table. Frankly, I've found the stuff here to be the most objective, and I've turned the leaf with you (it's nice to have a respectable second-opinion out there such as yours). I understand that you're in a tough situation b/c you don't want to cut off the hands that feed you... you'll have to tell people what sucks when they walk in your door, not on your website. It's like Walmart saying half the stuff they sell is crap ;-)

To the point: Reviews aren't mommies and daddies. They can only provide you with an opinion; they can't and shouldn't tell YOU what to do. And if you're willing to spend $thousands$ based solely on the opinion of some dude on a website, I've got some diet for you that helped me lose 40 lbs in 7 days. It's called Raw Chicken. Send me $800.00 and I'll give you the recipe.

-Gill

On target. I concur.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

There have been numerous posts before about an independent organization to review and evaluate bicycles. It would be nice to have someone who cannot be influenced by the bike companies doing wind-tunnel testing and riding and writing about the multitude of high-dollar bikes out there but that is not likely to happen soon. Until then, we have to rely on Tom and Dan and friends who have already sunk their wad of cash into a bike to keep us semi-informed. I really enjoy the reviews on this and Tom's web-site, however, one good or bad review would never be my sole reason for purchasing a particular type of bike. It just helps in the steering process.

Aha there in lies the crux of the problem... someone who knows what they are talking about and can't be touched by teh industry.

Who are the people who know the most about bikes? Or for that matter anything else? Generally it is going to be someone who is involved in the industry... Then if you compund this with the fact that there seem to be very few people that can make a really truly educated commentary on a product... This is again compunded with the cost of doing these reviews (you have to buy the bikes cause you can't have the companies trying to bias you with their direct interaction) Then who is going to pay for this?

I am not trying to say that it is a bad idea... on the contrary it would be ideal to have a independant reviewing body... I just wanted to point out some of the obstacles that face such a board.

My idea for going towards this ideal is to have reader submitted reviews that could be posted on the message board, on slowtwitch, etc. It would be a step in the right direction

Keep in mind there is a difference between a review and the idea I suggested earlier today that slowtwitch.com recommend 2 products in certain categories of tri related merchandise. This avoids the problem Tom, Dan and anyone else in the industry faces because they're not being forced into criticizing a product made/sold/distributed by a current or future business partner. The nature of these recommendations would be positive statements along the lines of "here's what worked for me and here's why." Granted...the companies who don't get on the list won't be thrilled, but that doesn't seem like it poses the same problems as outright criticizing a product in a hard-ass review.

Tom, Part of the value of your reviews (and others), is that you've done enough of them, and your opinions are readily available on this site and others. We know where you stand on things. We may not agree with everything you say, but we can count on the thought process that led you to that opinion. If I were to review the Saber and post it on this forum, or somewhere that it might be read often, it wouldn't carry nearly as much weight. Why? Not because my opinion isn't valid. Not because I'm biased or not biased. Its because no one knows me from Adam. Maybe as I post more on this and other forums, I'll be recognizable to a small contingent, and therefore a known quantity. With you and Dan we have a benchmark with which to measure your future opinions.

i, too, enjoy the reviews at BSM, but am wondering if/when BMS will go online with your retail business? your reviews give your shop some credibility (at least in my book) and i'd be willing to bet you'd be a fairly priced e-tailer. any plans?

Tom

If you're business strategy is to sell bikes which are good, why should you care about bike companies threatening you with their bad bikes which you'd never want to stock anyway!?

Well-known motoring journalists provide bad reviews; so why shouldn't you.

How can bike manufacturers improve their products unless someone tells them it's xxxx.

Keep up the good work.

I must admit I was practically pumping my fist in the air and yelling "yeah!" when I read your review of the Blade. It just never made sense to me, and it was about time someone called them on that silly crosswind-catching top tube, just like Dan was honest about his disagreement with QR's wide top tubes on selected models.

In the end you still presented a recommendation for a certain type of rider. I thought that was pretty even-handed, especially in view of the clear general affection for Litespeed's bikes you made known. That way I took your review to be a protest of disappointment with the company for marketing a silly design when they should know better.

Your recent Felt review was a bit over the top, but I admire your enthusiasm for triathlon, dedication to what works best for your customers, and your eye for detail and value. Furthermore, the more reviews you write the more familiar we readers become with certain themes you tend to cover, just as Dan will often discuss top tube and head tube lengths and handlebar specs in relation to frame geometry.

And I'd buy from you over the Web, too, assuming you'd ship all the way to Taiwan.

-David in Taipei

Stupid question.

What is Tom's website?



Thanks

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____________________________________________

"which is like watching one of your buddies announce that he's quitting booze and cigarettes, switching to a Vegan diet and training for triathalons ... but he's going to keep snorting heroin." Bill Simmons, ESPN

http://www.bikesportmichigan.com/

top website

great bike fit article

nice P2K

wonder what the furthest anyone has travelled to get bike fitted is?

think Cambridge UK to Michigan USA is a little far..?

We had a couple named Earley who came from Taipei, Taiwan for a fitting two weeks ago. OK, they didn't come all the way from Taipei specifically for the bike fitting, they were visiting relatives in Canada about 3 hours away. But they did make a 6 hour round trip drive twice to get fitted and pick up a bike built specifically for them. The fit turned out 100% killer- spot on. A lot of work went into that bike. Nice people too.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

You said:
"If you're business strategy is to sell bikes which are good, why should you care about bike companies threatening you with their bad bikes which you'd never want to stock anyway!?

Well-known motoring journalists provide bad reviews; so why shouldn't you.

How can bike manufacturers improve their products unless someone tells them it's xxxx. " Reply: Because Tom is Bikesport Michigan, a small player in a huge sea of bike shops working on low margins. He's not MotorTrend or Car & Driver (yet?). In simple terms: he's a passionate guy with a bikeshop and a website. How much pull does that give him? Do you know how many times Consumer Reports gets accused of being biased? Read some of their letters. Hell, they got SUED because they said a car, which tended to flip over, actually flipped over. It reported this in the magazine, and got SUED. It didn't stick, but that doesn't mean they had a crapload of legal fees to deal with. Your point is valid. In a perfect world, it's right-on. But this ain't a perfect world. Big manufacturers make bikes for money, not simply because they think it's neato. When someone puts those profits at risk, you can bet they'd try to retaliate... They didn't build the Blade because they thought it would be a piece of shit. Someone was behind that product, and you can bet that person (team) didn't want their reputation tarnished by some dude in Michigan! (I'm not saying he was threatened by Litespeed, I don't know, it's only used as an example). The point is, much of that stuff is better done off-line in Tom's situation. He's got a shop to run. That's his business focus. In time, as reputation builds, his leverage will likely increase. -Gill

Someone in this thread commented that my comments about Felt in my S32 review were a bit "Over the top". No doubt, they were sensational in nature- and I did that on purpose. there are a lot of companies blind to developing trends and shifts in consumer interest. They wonder why thay are having problems. It boils down to this: They are making it difficult to sell their bikes. They do not offer appealing product. Felt is a gathering storm cloud on the bicycle business horizon. They have enormous inertia and a distribution network in place. Sorry (again) for the sensational reference but: Imagine you're a German soldier on Omaha Beach on the morning of June 6, 1944. See all those ships approaching the beach? That's Felt. For a few bike companies that are "on the bubble", Felt is the invasion for that will force them off the beach. Again, it's just an opinion- but I'd put money on it, as a matter of fact- I have.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Tom, I certainly don't want you to publicly name names, but I'd sure love to know you you, as a retailer, think is about to be blown off the beach. One, being a Marine Grunt I love things that get blown up. Two, with the growth of the sport worldwide, it seems like there will be plenty of room for everyone.

As a triathlete, I think that Trek is a huge company that is wacked out of their minds. They build the Hilo, which was a good bike, then price it too high so no one buys it, then stop making it due to crummy sales. With their huge distribution they should have been able to flood the market with them. Instead, the only time trial bike they have (granted it is a good one) costs a mint and you typically only see sponsored riders on it. I would like to see them bring back the Hilo and maybe make one similarly shaped out of carbon and price them agressively .........

I agree with your methodology... take a product and test it (in a consistent manner) with measurements that are quantifiable. This methodology has the advantage of being reproducible, and real conclusions can be made from it.

good job

Joe and Laura Earley! Yeah, Joe emailed me and said I might see Laura out riding her new QR Tequilo. He recommended I visit your site, and I responded that I was very familiar with your site and would go see you about bikes if I were ever in the region. I'll probably hook up with Joe for a ride or two in the next few months. Hope you checked out his riding position on that Softride of his, too!