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Re: A new $500 power-meter in the works? [aravilare] [ In reply to ]
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Hey man, chill out... Looking at the website, the guys are all Israeli. Not sure you want to poke that bear unless you want a serious taste of Krav Maga.

Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team
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Re: A new $500 power-meter in the works? [aravilare] [ In reply to ]
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Agree sounds too good to be true. How would the device be calibrated for the various cranks that would have different flex properties?

Not an engineer but not sure how this would be even possible?

Best,
GS
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Re: A new $500 power-meter in the works? [rockfish] [ In reply to ]
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Apply a series of torques in the range human cyclists create in increments, measure the strain output, build a database of various cranks and how they response. Send the appropriate mapping table to the customer based on their crank.

I made this up, but seems legit.

rockfish wrote:

Not an engineer but not sure how this would be even possible?

Best,
GS



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: A new $500 power-meter in the works? [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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I would rather have the user calibrate it the first time- that way you're not susceptible to slight differences in mounting position, or different model years of cranks and other variations.

You would have to put a series of weights hanging from the pedals that are in the range of typical forces, tell the unit what that weight is, and they'd get a strain profile from that.
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Re: A new $500 power-meter in the works? [Koz] [ In reply to ]
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Koz wrote:
Dilbert wrote:
They should eliminate those wires and have the sensor mounted inside the unit.


I don't think you could do that without gluing/taping the entire box to your crank arm. And the wire likely provides some strain relief so the sensor isn't influenced by anything other than the crank arm flex.

But, yeah, it's asking to get snagged on something...the dropped chain scenario could be pretty bad.

The wire is the first thing I noticed. I think the metal bracket for the unit is good & looks solid, but the wire & sensor (which I only assume sticks on with double sided tape) makes me wary.
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Re: A new $500 power-meter in the works? [Dilbert] [ In reply to ]
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According to the video, the strain gauge sensor is the little thing that gets glued to the crank arm. I assume to keep that sensor small and keep the whole thing cheap, they need the wire to connect it to the pod hanging off the pedal for power from the battery and to get the data to the computer/ANT + transmitter in the pod (I think there are some other sensors in there too but again, once you hang a pod off the pedal, you don't have to buy/build super small sensors which surely shaves off costs too).

If I understand correctly how this thing must work, you could easily make it a one piece package glued to the crankarm. But, then it would cost more and just be another Stages ;-)
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Re: A new $500 power-meter in the works? [Koz] [ In reply to ]
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Koz wrote:
Dilbert wrote:
They should eliminate those wires and have the sensor mounted inside the unit.


I don't think you could do that without gluing/taping the entire box to your crank arm. And the wire likely provides some strain relief so the sensor isn't influenced by anything other than the crank arm flex.

But, yeah, it's asking to get snagged on something...the dropped chain scenario could be pretty bad.
I don't know why you couldn't just put a layer of tape over it to smooth it out and protect the wire. Might look a bit unsightly, but w black crank arms, electrical tape should fit in nicely. Only risk there is if the tape gets a bit loose, it's flying close to your cranks.
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Re: A new $500 power-meter in the works? [trigeekrusk] [ In reply to ]
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Re: A new $500 power-meter in the works? [STP] [ In reply to ]
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My initial thought is that the comp unit is in a location that will receive a lot of abuse... at least the end of my cranks seem to get a lot of chips. And I bet they have a tough time achieving good accuracy.

Watteam PowerBeat uses the most advanced strain gauge technology, along with an optimized processor, accelerators and gyros to accurately detect your power output.


Built from rods and springs, our worldwide patented mechanical sensor attaches easily to both of your crank arms. It senses your pedal stroke up to the millisecond, recording the direct and immediate torque that you apply.

Our sensor then feeds the data to our patented algorithm, located inside the comp unit, where it is translated into accurate power data.



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Re: A new $500 power-meter in the works? [dindu] [ In reply to ]
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For the tech geeks....here's a link to their US patent

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20130333489.pdf
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Re: A new $500 power-meter in the works? [aravilare] [ In reply to ]
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What's a "worldwide patent?"

Amateur recreational hobbyist cyclist
https://www.strava.com/athletes/337152
https://vimeo.com/user11846099
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Re: A new $500 power-meter in the works? [Jamie] [ In reply to ]
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According to what I found "on the 'net" it won't be available "this fall", but next year.
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Re: A new $500 power-meter in the works? [MrSkinny] [ In reply to ]
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Uh yeah. Which quarter? Before or after brim brothers I wonder.
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Re: A new $500 power-meter in the works? [refthimos] [ In reply to ]
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It's a marketing term for a set of patents or patent applications in various countries. There is no such thing as a single patent that protects IP around the world, but you can file with the various patent offices around the world. I'd assume that they filed in the US, European Union (which has a single patent office for the entire EU), Australia, Canada and maybe Japan.
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Re: A new $500 power-meter in the works? [v0coder] [ In reply to ]
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Not sure you're aware but Brim Brothers is being released at the bike show in Vegas this year.. September 10th... this from their news page.....??

I had to ditch them after following for over a year last year when I realised their platform doesn't allow for the speedplay adaptor plate (rearward cleat position).. shame... but a stages had done everything I need.... apart form the 2 failed units.. v3 seems OK tho..


Barry says:
August 5, 2014 at 08:20
Paul, don’t fret, it’s coming! Launching at Interbike in Las Vegas on 10th September! You’re on our pre-order list so you will get information as soon as we release it. I see you’re close to the top of the list (thanks for your patience) which means that you will be among the first to have an opportunity to get your hands on a Zone power meter.
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Re: A new $500 power-meter in the works? [shadwell] [ In reply to ]
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DC Rainmaker ...

http://www.dcrainmaker.com/...their-powerbeat.html
Last edited by: chrisodg: Aug 7, 14 16:37
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Re: A new $500 power-meter in the works? [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
Apply a series of torques in the range human cyclists create in increments, measure the strain output, build a database of various cranks and how they response. Send the appropriate mapping table to the customer based on their crank.

I made this up, but seems legit.

rockfish wrote:


Not an engineer but not sure how this would be even possible?

Best,
GS

I am an engineer and I was thinking along those lines. Seems like the easiest and likeliest of several things that they could do.
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Re: A new $500 power-meter in the works? [v0coder] [ In reply to ]
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v0coder wrote:
Looks like crap that wouldn't last a season, but if they actually bring it to market it could help lower prices on other meters. While I have nothing concrete to base this on, I suspect there are several meters that could come down 40-50% and still have a reasonable profit margin.

which ones? And a reasonable profit margin at which point in the sales stream? And what's a "reasonable" profit margin?


just curious
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Re: A new $500 power-meter in the works? [Jamie] [ In reply to ]
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Lava magazine said it's not going to be released until Spring 2015 so if you want one for the Fall you'll have to go another route.
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Re: A new $500 power-meter in the works? [chrisodg] [ In reply to ]
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So Ray says you get the pair (2) for $500. Does either one work alone independently? It would be an interesting business/social experiment if 1 works just fine, and see if people start pairing up to split the cost, or if individual units go on sale second hand/aftermarket?

Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
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Re: A new $500 power-meter in the works? [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
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James Haycraft wrote:
v0coder wrote:
Looks like crap that wouldn't last a season, but if they actually bring it to market it could help lower prices on other meters. While I have nothing concrete to base this on, I suspect there are several meters that could come down 40-50% and still have a reasonable profit margin.


which ones? And a reasonable profit margin at which point in the sales stream? And what's a "reasonable" profit margin?


just curious

SRM have publicly said they do not feel any need to adjust pricing due to others in the market. That is one, not several, though.
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Re: A new $500 power-meter in the works? [DrTriKat] [ In reply to ]
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DrTriKat wrote:
So Ray says you get the pair (2) for $500. Does either one work alone independently? It would be an interesting business/social experiment if 1 works just fine, and see if people start pairing up to split the cost, or if individual units go on sale second hand/aftermarket?


I would have to presume that one unit talks to the other, and that unit talks to the computer, just like the Vectors do. I don't think your typical ANT+ cycling computer is capable of taking in data from two power meter sources at the same time.
Last edited by: Jason N: Aug 7, 14 18:26
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Re: A new $500 power-meter in the works? [chrisodg] [ In reply to ]
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I am WOW'ed that they intend to have end users bond the sensor module to the crank arm. Obviously this helps them to reduce manufacturing costs and produce a universal power meter but I can't believe that a lot of people won't fuck the installation up. Just look at all the other power meters which are affected by installation issues (polar, ergomo, LOOK, Vector). I consider myself pretty handy and would be very wary of doing this.
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Re: A new $500 power-meter in the works? [Jason N] [ In reply to ]
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That makes sense. Suppose the Brim Brothers Zone work that way too? One still wonders if it would make sense for them to sell a single (the one that talks to the head unit also) for lets say $300 for the budget conscious athlete?

Two wheels good. Four wheels bad.
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Re: A new $500 power-meter in the works? [chrisodg] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you for the link -this thread is a nice illustration of why it's often best to "leave it to the professionals" (ie the
rainmaker) and side step a lot of bluster and speculation.
Last edited by: trekker: Aug 7, 14 18:56
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