Agree. I think the sticking point is allowing "everyone else" to ride a tri bike. Will an insurer allow an RD to basically look the other way while hundreds draft on tri bikes? Maybe an insurer will, but will the premium be too cost prohibitive for WTC? Would IM "Gran Fondo" on road bikes be as profitable for WTC?

it's obviously complicated. I want rules to be followed and enforced. As a MOPer, I'm not concerned that somebody drafted on the bike beat me by 30 minutes because of that or something since I'm primarily out there competing against my own goals. Obviously there is still some level of wanting to be as high up in the results as possible but it's not the end of the world. What gets annoying is having to fight through those draft packs. Even at my skill level there are people drafting. It's annoying.

I am the 2017 W50-54 winner you are referring to: Peggy's time this year is legit and here is why she was an hour faster in the W50-54 AG this year.

1. Swim was wetsuit legal--usually a game changer for most and for me it saves me 5-7 minutes on an MDOT swim--not to mention less energy used on the swim due to said floaty wetsuit
2. Not as much wind on the bike course this year--we had major headwinds last year so times were slower last year than this year.
3. Less time spent riding the bike (in most cases, for those who raced both years, this year's bike course was 35 minutes faster). Less time spent on bike means more energy and usually faster times on the run
4. I had a lot of cramping issues last year on the run and basically stood still/walked some--which slowed my run split by a decent amount. Peggy was a collegiate runner and ran a 1:23XX at the Houston 2018 half marathon this year.

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leslie myers
http://www.foodsensenow.com

It's criminal for WTC to offer a championship and not having accurate split distances, & a well-marshalled course. You've got the time, staff and money to insure this. They have supported this NA disaster once again by holding it at problematic IM Texas, letting close to 3,000 athletes enter, and having a multi-lap bike course.

Fix it. It's not rocket science.

Most drafting I encountered was at a windy HIM Wilmington and i spent much of the day attempting to clear myself of packs. I was able to do it but expended energy I should not have needed to. I saw some marshals out there but as far as I could tell they only gave warnings. At least when I saw them. I guess I should be thankful they were out there

Your point number 3 above, mentions the bike course was 35 minutes faster. The bike was 35 minutes faster because the wind was more favorable this year versus 2017? I also read the temperatures were ideal in 2018. Are you implying those two reasons gave athletes a 35 minute advantage? Congrats on your 2017 win!

Hmmm. You could argue the front guys didn't draft as much, simply because there weren't many people in front of them to draft off. But with the women starting later, and generally being a bit slower on the bike, it might have favored them more (not talking about Peggy Yetman here, but more in general). Might be interesting to compare top 3/5/10 of each age group against times they've done before. I have most full distance ironman results of the last five years (except a few from last year) so could do such a check. Might just be a fun exercise, but will have to wait for the weekend when I might have some time.

At best, the bike course for the few of us that raced legal, was 5-10min faster than last year. 35min is a joke.

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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
Sponsors: SciCon | | Every Man Jack

Replying to this post but mainly to Leslie's peer athlete. It's not possible for the course to be 35 min faster unless

1. It was physically shorter by a lot
2. It was moved up to 7000 ft above sea level
3. There was a swirling tailwind all day that magically changed on a per rider basis
4. T2 ended up being lower than sea level at roughly the same position where T1 was above sea level
5. All of the above combined
6. None of the above combined, but with a lower wind day and with pushing less wind from a combination of legal and illegal drafting

I am pretty sure none of 1-5 apply to anyone at that race.

I was watching the live footage from the Houston Transtar during a conference call (watched most of it). It's really upsetting and disappointing to watch. I'd say about maybe 80% of the athletes were blatantly drafting on this video coverage. I wonder if there's any way to zoom in and catch some numbers to determine if any age groupers who landed on the podiums were indeed cheating.

My apologies if someone already posted this:
https://m.facebook.com/...;id=1526083630835352

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Death is easy....peaceful. Life is harder.

https://caitalexander.wordpress.com/...5/13/swim-draft-run/

So shocking.... with the entry fee being that high you’d assume they’d have marshals/officials along the course

I'm not going to argue that were were likely too many athletes on this course BUT what was the difference from 2017 to 2018?
- 2017 same number of athletes with marshals on the course. Some drafting but nothing big enough to be major news
- 2018 no marshals, somehow the athletes figure this out and the reason to follow rules disappears and huge dangerous packs form.

This is sad and is something I'm struggling with. If the only reason to follow the rules is a fear of getting caught what does that say about our sport?

You're surprised it turned into Lord of the Flies out there? I'm not.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

This is sad and is something I'm struggling with. If the only reason to follow the rules is a fear of getting caught what does that say about our sport?

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That we are no different than almost every other sport except I would say golf. Golf for whatever reason, and for however they did it...integrity and calling your own foul is hugely important in golf (competitive golf that is). I'm sure there are other sports that are like that but I cant think of them. We as a sport have never pushed personal integrity/calling your own foul and then owning up to it. Neither does it happen basketball or baseball, or football or soccer.

We may not like that that's how our sport is, but we are a "officiated" sport much more than an individual integrity sport. We talk about following the rules, but we never hear of people actually turning themselves in for rules infraction, it's only if an official dings you. Not saying that's right, not saying that's wrong, that's just how our sport is. We may have wanted to be high integrity and call your own fouls, but it's never really materialized into that say golf does even today where the onus is on each individual to do the right thing and if they dont to penalize yourself (and yes you can probaly name a few time pro golfers "cheated" and got away with it).


ETA: And yes our rules say you have to follow the rules regardless of officiating there or not, I'm just replying that in general triathlon races turn into "you only broke the rules if you get caught", personal accountability isn't much actual deterrent in OUR sport, like it is in golf. And I'm not judging that, I'm just saying I think that's simply how it is.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Well said.

I have nothing to argue against that with. You make a good point even though I don't like it or agree with it. I've often thought we, as athletes on the course, should call our own fowls and make others accountable or at least aware of the rules. I do this quite a bit and don't for one second thing I'm popular out there for doing it.

There was a woman who cut the bike short on a tri in Mexico last weekend. Marathon Investigation called her out on it. She stood atop the podium on a race with very few rules to begin with and taking top spot after a blatant course cutting "mistake" was a huge deal. She has since taken down her posts about the win and says it was a mistake.

Apparently there is a lot of grey area with the amount of cheating we're willing to accept. A nothing race cheater (maybe by mistake... I don't know), hits Marathon Investigation and some public shaming. Ironman Texas where some people are claiming 50% of the field cheated.... and we all know by looking at results who did by their insane fast bike followed by an insane fast run... and we let it go. Hopefully they get marshals out there next year. I loved so much about Texas, about the run, about the race. If the bike can be cleaned up somewhat I want to go back. I guess we will see.

Yes I can. Go look at pro golf where millions are on the line and cheating is very very rare. Again I’m talking competive golf, not weekend hackers playing mulligans, not counting strokes etc. I’m talking competition golf where people officiate themselves. It’s always been part of golf and always will be. Whether 180 in the tournament or 30, the golfers always officiate themselves, not rely on course officials to discipline them.

Hell golf is predicated on you cheering and hoping your playing partner makes the putt not to miss (even if you lose because of it). It’s built completely on good sportsmanship.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

yeah, but do golfers get cool finisher's medals?

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TEAM F3 Undurance

Bag of balls kid for 88th place!

Eta: actually 88th would get you dq’d half way through the tourney! Golf won’t let any hack finish, so tri has that going for them too!!!

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

To be fair, for course cutters we have often done the same (Julie Miller, T3 woman, etc.), often initiated by people on this forum. It's just a lot easier to prove, and thus to get officials to agree to a DQ, when it involves missed timing mats and impossible split times. I don't know what Ironman could have done after the fact here. Their fuck up was during the race. Should they DQ people based on photos and the timing mat data posted earlier, days after awards and KQ slots?

I wish I could "like" this comment. You are right. It was a mess up from the beginning by Ironman. The issue still exists though that we "adults" should be able to play nice in the sandbox without our Mom or Dad standing by to stop us from throwing sand. This isn't golf but we are all capable of making the right choice. Apparently a lot of people don't believe the right choice applies to them. After the fact nothing can be done. The cheaters know, the rest of us know. Alan Couzins did a great job of trying to expose them. Ironman now needs to do their job to police us cause we aren't capable of doing it ourselves.

I agree re: sportsmanship. I've told this story about half dozen times her on ST, and, I don't think I've got a single comment about it. I verbally told Dan (Slowman, at WF a few weeks ago)...

A million years ago I was participating in a big tri in MN when the guy who won the overall (Mark C.) was reviewing the bike course map (post race) and realized that he was directed while he was in the lead to take a slight shortcut; it was less than 400 meters. His time gap would have had him win the overall if he'd been guided correctly. Upon his realization, he quietly DQ'd himself. No blaming, excuses, etc.

At the same event maybe a dozen years later I saw a guy who won the Clydesdale division DQ himself because while his weight was Clydesdale when he signed up; on race morning he realized he'd lost enough to take him out of the category. He would have been on the podium in his "normal" AG. No one would have ever known one way or the other what his exact weight was. He just did the right thing.

I have every confidence that some people capable of riding fast at IMTX did the right thing and followed the rules, problem is with the results of the day, it's harder to tell. And, sadly I haven't heard of anyone fessing up that they didn't really earn their time.

Certainly makes me wonder if I EVER want to do that race. Especially given that WTC has been mum on this issue - kinda embarrassing if you ask me.

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I saw this on a white board in a window box at my daughters middle school...
List of what life owes you:
1. __________
2. __________
3. __________