This one?


IRONMAN Texas
LikeComment
235 likes

• dimitydukeWell what can I say - a hard post to write on many levels but one that needs to be published in the most professional way I can. For those who know me well enough I am not to give up on races lightly but today I had to ultimately decide on whether I wanted to be a sheep and follow the flock or stop purely as a matter of principle. @ironmantri #IMTX was an interesting day. I had never felt so well prepared and ready physically and mentally to race an IRONMAN. The swim went relatively well considering non wetsuit and fresh water/no underwater visibility conditions. It was onto the bike where things went pear shaped. I was riding with crédible female pro athletes and some professional men. Unfortunately there were a number of athletes within the riding group who chose to blatantly break the rules #drafting no just on the odd occasion but for the whole ride until I chose to pull the plug. Regardless of wether draft Marshall’s around or not it should be up to the athlete to race clean and fair. Obviously this was disregarded. As I was doing my upmost to follow the rules I knew down the road that I would ultimately pay the price coming into the run. I decided to not continue to ride with this group and ride with another fellow athlete who acknowledged what was going on - but ultimately she was sucked in and followed the same suit when the next drafting group went by. The last straw came for me when another female pro athlete who was also drafting at 2m said « hop on and get a free ride! » . I am sorry but this is not who I am and who I am about. I feel sorry for the fast swimmers @mbkessler who would have most likely seen this happening and ultimately lost the lead. I feel sorry for the event organisers, my friends, my homestay family, my coach @jurgenzack , my @zcoaching_phuket crew who I have let down. I feel sorry for my sponsors who provide me with the best equipment to help me achieve my goals. I refuse to stoop to such a level and I will continue to race athletes and events who want to play clean and fair. I will pick myself up from this and move on as always. Thanks for your understanding. #swimbikerun #triathlon #principles #keepingitreal #playbytherules

Well, regardless of the cause and/or possible solution, I will say, it is kind of amusing picking out random names from the top 30 finishers from the male 45-49 group, and looking at their other bike times on Obsessed Triathlete.
Some of their bike times (just bike, not overall) in Texas were upwards of an hour faster than at other IM's over the past couple years......lol

More importantly, this race also touted (40?) extra Kona slots.

I definitely don't condone it, but I can understand how in the 'heat of the battle', when some AG athlete (that's been training for 12 months for a KQ) sees a pack or two like the one in this video fly by them, the athlete has the decision of do I race fair and risk the KQ or join in and try to stay in contention. Personally, I have a strong swim/run background that I use to prop up my mediocre bike leg, and I would be very upset if I saw a group like this fly by me with my competition in the pack essentially stealing a KQ.

Again, definitely don't condone it, but I can see where it comes from.

Kind of off topic but I find it funny that these drafters will do anything for a Kona slot which includes cheating. No paycheck just a Kona slot. You do realize you have to pay for the slot and you'll be dropping close to $10k on the trip? Most people around you could care less if you KQ.

The solution is to let the KQ slot go to the the others trying to steal it. You don't want to steal the KQ slot and unfairly get it. Just rely on Jimmy and crew nailing them and stuffing the penalty tent filled with pack riders. I've seen it both ways, letting the packs go and losing KQ slot and the other way, where the pack ends up in the penalty tent. Usually after that happens, the guys are so demoralized, they overbike to make up time and blow up.....then I have them on the run for sure. You roll the dice that the refs will do their job and focus on themselves.

Dev

PS. My hit rate for KQ for my ability is really bad. I've only KQ'd on one in 10 IM's. Most of the lack of success is my own none execution in the middle of the bike or early in the run....the packs ended making up no difference....in any case it can be done to let go. Ask Logella too. He's been around.

Absolutely. I just see how it would be rough to let go and could break those with a weaker constitution. I would scrap the race before I resorted to doing something like this because, similar to doping, I don't think I would feel like I earned the slot.

I was just trying to add some slightly different perspective because I feel like a lot of this forum thinks the effort put in and the reward of getting a KQ are a waste of time. Personally, I decided to make this my full distance year and will definitely be shooting for a KQ. I know that if I do get it nobody else really cares. However, to me, it would definitely be a reward of all the long hours and sacrifice put in to achieve it.

Sorry but there WERE pros in those draft packs. Saw them with my own eyes.

Yeah, at least I came by mine honestly

I would like to think that cheaters get theirs. I did not draft and passed hundreds of AG dudes on the run. Cheating can’t account for your lack of fitness.

People in here justifying this nonsense have clearly never done a shorter time trial.

We start only 30sec apart, usually. Meaning someone will catch you and you will catch someone. Sometimes 15sec start time differentials.

If you catch someone in a 10mi TT at 30sec apart, that's only a speed difference of less than 1/2mph difference. Think about what that means, in one hour you cover 1/2 a mile further.

A 1/2 mi and even a 1/3 mile is pretty damn far. Almost out of sight if there's any hills. Trying to say "they're close in ability and group up naturally" is horse shit.

In an IM I guarandamntee those dudes/dudettes are at least 1/2mph difference. Meaning, over such a larger distance they'd surely pass on by.

When I pass someone (or get passed) in a TT, it's usually like you're jogging past them. You're gone in 30 seconds. You stay to their side for the 30 seconds then move back.

This line of thought in here is total bullshit.

https://triathlonmagazine.ca/...-ironman-texas-year/


No records recognized at Ironman Texas this year

Many athletes, both pros and age groupers, disappointed after yesterday's race because of a shortened bike course not announced ahead of time and a massive drafting problem.

As an RD myself, it is incumbent on the RD to secure officials. According to USAT, officials are not even a requirement. RDs fly in the officials, pay them and provide lodging and meals. If there are no officials at a race that falls squarely on the race director and his/her budget. It has nothing to do with being ‘allowed’ officials—it’s about whether you hire them or not.

Seems like WtC figures that setting up ‘penalty tents’ would be enough to discourage. But on a multi-loop course like this, it was very easy to see that there were no officials at all in either direction. And the people at all the aid stations knew it—I heard people ask if there were officials on the course and they said they had not seen any.

I personally know an age grouper riding legally who was pushed off the road because of one of the draft packs of 50+ people. He ended up with a head injury and the meds would not let him continue. Lots is assholes out there on Saturday.

Or genetics :)

I just pulled these numbers....

Same bike course as last year, I think wind picked up a little on the way home last year but not enough to add 10s of minutes.

2017 Male AG bike splits
1 under 4:30
9 under 4:40
29 under 4:50
78 under 5:00


2018 Male AG bike splits
63 under 4:30
178 under 4:40
277 under 4:50
345 under 5:00

I can too. And what are you supposed to do if you are coming up on that pack. Slow down as to not hit the back on the draft zone? Expend an extra 50+ watts to try to hit the front only to be swallowed up again and then slow down until you are at the back of the pack?? This is a serious question. I have never drafted in a triathlon event but I’m not even sure what I would do (even if trying to stay within the rules) and even if a slot wasn’t on the line.

I might also add that it is easy for me to say "let the Kona Q go". I've been there. This is much harder for someone to let it go when they have not been there and have a legit chance. I also decided in my IM career to only do "Hard courses" where drafting has a lesser impact....IMLP, IM France, Whistler, Tahoe, South Africa, Tremblant, Old IM Texas course, Penticton (even that was a draft fest going back to 1991 to Osoyoos, with a train of 50 men drafting Fernanda Keller catching me just before Richter pass)....I never did a course that was flat just to largely avoid the drafting dilemma, knowing that climbs would arrive to sort it all out. If you're on a flat course and never been to Kona, it's a tougher call. Honestly I don't trust myself enough to make that tough call, so I largely avoided it by picking really really hilly events which gave me comfort that I would be able to take it back on the climbs.

If you are an inexperienced FOP local stud, it's hard when you get to a championship event and there are 50 people of the same caliber as you and suddenly you can't ride them off your wheel. You just can't. At a local level, if you are 4.2W per kilo, you can ride most off your wheel. At a championship, there are 10 people like that in your vicinity...so then the only option is to drop back. You're not dropping these riders

With 2500 athletes hitting the course in the span of about an hour, that's about 20 riders every 30 seconds instead of 1. It's nothing like a time trial.

If you're catching them, why not just go to the front and put them in the gutter?

just give them DQs like in cycling TTs

but then the cry like a biatch thread will rear it's head

it's also funny that the same logical fallacies in this thread about drafting are the same as the ones in the TUE thread and doping in cycling. you have to....cuz everyone else is doing it. no, folks chose to do it

Dev,

I did TX last year, did a slow swim and a fast bike saw very little drafting. Won my AG. This year I would have finished 24th. I know some of those guys, and they are not as fast as that, PR'd by 25 minutes.

Has anybody posted Strava files with actual power who rode around 24mph?

I was thinking about Lake Placid next for a non drafty race. Thoughts?

Also, just FYI, I did FLA last year and there were no packs I saw. Some legal(ish) lines for sure but nothing too egregious.

As for the pros, just looking at how many guys PR'd the run, you have to wonder about the hr and power on the bike.

Ya know. That would have made sense to me last year. But, I did a large bike race where drafting was legal and so I really the affect of the draft pack. I would find myself too fast for the back of many packs but it was a LOT of work to get to the front. I paid dearly at the end of he 100 mile race for all the work I did to move past packs. Maybe it that’s just that simple, you follow the rules and suffer more because of others cheating. But I can certainly see working all the way to the front and maybe passing the entire group only to be swallowed up and then have to slow down to let the group pass two minutes later.

LP is a none draft race overall as you have around 10K of relative climbing after T2.....drafting on the flats on the out and back on first loop can be thick, but then you have 30K more or less climbing back to finish the loop. By the end of loop 1, it's all resolved. Really there is only 30K where packs have any impact but after that your final finish position reflects your fitness. I think it is a much more fair race than Tremblant....Tremblant there can be a free ride for 70K. I think you most fair race will be the new Whistler course. On that course you get the race result that reflects your fitness and execution...same for Nice.

Sorry, I get that you feel strongly but it's important to understand the context of a back and forth before wading in to the deep end with a nonsensical response like this.

This is totally on the race director. I did bike races the last 2 weekends where each field had 2 motos and a car. There were at least 5 fields each day. These were moderate sized 'regional' races, not any sort of championship. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned getting a motorcycle club involved. That is exactly what these races did. If a local RD can organize this then the only reason that Ironman can't is that they don't want to.

Quote:

Has anybody posted Strava files with actual power who rode around 24mph?

https://www.strava.com/activities/1537177564

just browse people who rode "with" said athlete

this guy's watts:mph ratio is a little questionable for example - https://www.strava.com/activities/1537541666