There...

http://genome.fieldofscience.com/

great blog by Steven Salzberg on science and pseudoscience.

Science is great ! When more than 40 metabolites are measurably affected by raising one's redox signaling activity, it raises a great deal of hope, questions and new horizons.
The bottom line is how it makes the user feel in regards to overall health over a decent amount of extended time. What's your own experience with using the ASEA ?
Personally, I almost stopped after a month.

You have zero credibility when you're an anonymous, new poster on this site with barely 10 posts that are all on this thread.

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Focus on "They don’t say.". From a scientist's point of view, this is very odd because of the ethical practice of science.
Corporate views are different with different motivations because of competitive forces and other marketing considerations.
When a competitive product is successful , corporations will tend to stick to the bare minimum when it comes to disclosing competitive info in marketing materials and labeling.
The less that is said , the better. There's a bottom line here too. Keep your advantages silent as best you can . Sell the sizzle, not the steak.

Did you know that before the decision was made to bring the product to market that an offer was made for the product from a large pharma company ... to the tune of 8 figures ?
When it was discovered that part of that agreement was that the existing owners of the product had to "back out", they surmised that the product would only be shelved and thus the offer went nowhere from there.
They wanted to ensure that the product made it to consumers. There's been enough hording of good ideas in this world, especially when it comes to things that revolve around health, wealth and energy.
We've been supply driven since "the apple was shoved in our faces". Time for a change where demand can exert a little more power. That comes down to more free choices.

I am so happy that science is finaly moving away from chemistry and toward physics. Those two fields should be seperated from each other as one is obviously superior to the other. A similar movement is afoot to seperate Divinations from Defense Against the Dark Arts.

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Remember - It's important to be comfortable in your own skin... because it turns out society frowns on wearing other people's

I find it comical to review the history of this thread. After its initiation it gets revived periodically by some shyster to offer some bogus testimony regarding ASEA's benefits. Said shyster has just registered that day and suddenly has so much to offer the forum. Loads of complete bullshit scientific terminology is regurgitated, presumably straight from ASEA's own MLM literature, everyone mocks the new arrival and the post disappears again. I will give rooster some credit for being the shyster with the best longevity, having contributed his garbage testimony to this thread for 2 1/2 months now, but we all know it is total rubbish and this thread will fade into the 2nd, then 3rd page of the forum, only to be revived in 4 weeks by another ASEA MLM schmuck. So, to all that participate in this one, CHEERS for the entertainment!

Amusing .... where's the study to refute ASEA's findings ? Don't speak for "we all know" when the only thing we all know is that ASEA has a study and the pharma guys don't. That's what we know and you can bet your ass that if a study was ever done on ASEA outside of ASEA's realm of influence ( I suspect there has been .... my informed opinion) , the results would never see the light of day and you would continue to experience the typical polarized mud slinging that you are witnessing in here.

By the way .... I feel fantastic and some things cannot be explained by science. They can only be explained by experience. I wish some of these modern kinds of scientific measuring technologies could get up and run around the room after their measurements and exclaim how great they feel. Unfortunately, they can't and we have to rely on personal testimonials when it comes to that which is truly real .... feelings. That might be in the quantum realm of science. We may find out at some point .... we may never.

I'm curious as to why those who slag ASEA are in this thread in the first place ????????? What's the interest ? Med students cutting their teeth ?

Two questions...
Does it come in carbon fiber?
Does Kevin Moats endorse it?

If the answer is yes to either one of those questions, then where do I sign up?

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"Good genes are not a requirement, just the obsession to beat ones brains out daily"...the Griz

I think you are missing the point. It's not up to everyone to refute ASEA's findings, it's up to ASEA to prove its claims. All the claims that have been made about ASEA's benefits are anecdotal and not supported in any scientific evidence that has been made available, despite your claims to the contrary. As others have said, every once in a while someone newly registered on Slowtwitch will jump on this thread raving about ASEA and saying they have scientific proof that it works and that ASEA has conducted double-blind studies that support that. When people ask for that evidence, it's nowhere to be found.

If you want to spend your money on ASEA and are convinced you are seeing some benefit from it, go right ahead and do just that. But don't expect people to just automatically take your word for it and shell out A LOT of money for a product with nothing more than what appears to be heavily biased statements in favor of it. If you can provide some of these legitimate, peer-reviewed studies that the ASEA followers claim to have, maybe people will start believing the hype. Until then, you're wasting your breath.

And to answer your qeustion why "those who slag ASEA" are participating in this thread, I'm only speaking for myself but it's because I can't stand it when people fall for all these crazy schemes and get taken by snake-oil salesman. My mother-in-law falls for some of this garbage and it's painful to see her throw money away on magnets, holograms, and whatever other crap is being offered.

My sympathies to your MIL. Have you ensured to protect her by having studies proven in all aspects of her diet ? ASEA is marketing a dietary supplement so let's keep it in that context.
If drug protocols are different, they are different for a reason. They should be when they are conjuring up compounds from synthetic chemistry ? Would you agree ? They also market drugs with med claims.

The power of the pharma lobby can be viewed from the standpoint of making it appear that their own constraints have to be cast onto the supplement industry. They don't but the supplement industry has been front and center
on standardizations that go past the smell test for many years. It's the pharma interests that appear to thwart these efforts, with the added irony that they use this lack of progress to point fingers at supps to say, "they don't measure up to our standards".
The only reality that lies in that pile of shit is who currently has political power over who and how that will change/is changing as we move forward .... or backward.

Let me choose in a free market. I'll let you choose too.

Oh yes .... I'm feeling mighty good ! Hope you are too.

I'm not trying to get into a debate on whether supplements should be regulated under the same standards as the pharmaceutical industry, although you seem to be diverting the argument that way. I have my opinions on that and they aren't relevant to what I was saying. I'm merely saying that I won't believe the ASEA claims until I see some actual proof that it works, and not just comments from people that appear to have a vested interest in the success of ASEA's marketing efforts. There's no way I'm going to pay for salt water, which I suspect tastes awful, until someone can show me that proof. You can continue to use it and I sincerely hope you find it helpful, but don't expect people to make that same leap of faith without the proof that ASEA fans claim exists, but never seem to be able to provide when asked.

And to address your first comment, my mother in law knows my opinions on the crap she buys.

"Every understanding from the literature is that these probably came from the fat stores in the abdominal area," said Nieman. "So if you drink ASEA we found that the fats go up in the blood. If you're not exercising, those fats will still be used to support the body's metabolism for life."

"Fats go up in blood"!!! OMG!! Drink the water, sit back on your couch and watch your fats flow...for life...

Did you choose therooster as your handle because it's the sole bird who can have both feet deep in shit and still sing? If so, it's highly appropriate.

"for life" ..... ? No. For duration of use, I'd say. If it was for life then it would really be a miracle ! LOL
I've noticed a great slimming particularly in my face. I've had a problem with low thyroid function in the past. Some will relate.
In spite of the of the slimming look, I've only lost about 4 lbs. I don't exercise, however. I run a busy home business. I suspect that it's all be fat loss.
Would love to get back into the gym and really see the effects get kicked up a notch or two.

No ... so I can crow three times when the truth is denied

"It's not up to everyone to refute ASEA's findings, it's up to ASEA to prove its claims."

I sell the product direct to end users at wholesale. Never had to show a study to anyone and I never make medical claims.
I understand my business and I understand that drug claims are based on constraints from a marketing point of view.
The public is not aware of this for the most part. A drug has a legal definition based on the marketing claim you make about a product.
A "drug" is not defined by way of substance or chemistry but by marketing application. If I say that distilled water cures warts then that product better be classified as a drug because of the marketing claim.
Doesn't matter what the water does or doesn't do in that definition. It's all about the claim. It's a marketing concept.

Doing well, feeling great and repeat business is very good. No need of claims. No need of studies. ASEA is just part of eating very well and moving toward greater degrees of homeostasis by way of great diet.

How limited is science in this regard when redox signaling is likely to reach into the quantum aspects of health ? When we get down to that micro level, observations and measurements can't even be made.
We're living in a time when your beliefs will be the things to save you , places where science just cannot go.

I still stand on the fact that ASEA has the only study.

I think I'm pretty much finished here. I've contributed enough. For those who posess the power of belief, no proof is necessary and for those who don't, no amount of proof is ever enough.

BTW ... I have several MD's who recommend the product and who also use the product. Don't bother to ask for personal info. They have a right to be free too.

Wow...you totally convinced me with your 'power of belief' comment, and the fact that some MDs recommend it ;-)

Well since you're done, all the best in your endeavour.

That should be enough to tell everybody how huge of a troll this guy is. No reason to be on this website other then to try to hock a product. No different then all the Chinese website trying to scam people for bikes. Time for Dan to enact a ban.

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Are you kidding me? They'll be back. When this thread gets revived in a couple months they will reappear to defend their product and their livelihood.


But I do agree with rooster that you must lack the power of belief. I have a bracelet with a small drop of Minotaur semen embedded that will improve your belief and make you feel energized and resistant to fatigue at the end of a long day. Just PM me...

Wow! I've been looking for one of these bracelets! I saved $2000. I know it's nowhere near what it's worth...but maybe If I'm lucky? ;-)
I'm guessing these folks come back all the time because it's enough to get 3-4 people to try their salt water.

Quote:

We're living in a time when your beliefs will be the things to save you , places where science just cannot go.

I still stand on the fact that ASEA has the only study.

as usual for this woo stuff, you seem to want it both ways. so we have:

1) ASEA's benefits are based on, what is it today, physics? chemistry? quantum chromoholodynamics? It works via a mechanism that science discovered!
2) "How limited is science in this regard when redox signaling is likely to reach into the quantum aspects of health ? When we get down to that micro level, observations and measurements can't even be made."

which just goes to show that you apparently know very, very little about the science that you claim underpins ASEA, let alone physics, let alone the "micro level". observations and measurements at the sub-atomic level have been commonplace in physics, chemistry and biology for more than half a century.

and then we have:

1) " ASEA has the only study."
2) There are precisely zero studies that show that ASEA has any effect at all (other than the placebo effect)

which just goes to show that you are absolutely full of (possibly well-intentioned and well-meaning) crap. you're free to ingest whatever you want. you're free to tell everyone you meet what you're eating and how great you feel. you're not free to lie about

• how science does and does not work
• what ASEA is
• what effects ASEA has on the body
• the existence of research studies that support claims that ASEA does anything beyond a placebo

You seem to lack very basic understandings of both science in general, physics/chemistry/biology in particular and most significantly, appear to know nothing at all about either testing or the placebo effect. Your anecdotes about feeling great are fine, but don't attempt to justify them with appeals to woo, let alone scientific credibility - ASEA and its promoters have none, because they have not done the work.

I really recommend the new link they posted on their facebook page (search dox-shots in FB).
There is a video titled: New STUDY - Dr. David Nieman, VP American Collge Sports Medicine.

Looks like a very scientific presentation... pink, pink...

"Scientific publication"....

http://www.facebook.com/...hp?v=123937991089503

For those who posses the power of belief, no proof is necessary and for those who don't, no amount of proof is ever enough.

- its called the placebo effect, very powerful in about 10% of people. The mind is an amazingly powerful and barely understood machine for healing.

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Dave Stark
dreamcatcher@astound.net
USAC & USAT level 2 certified coach

This comes to mind: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHboMLW-Zn0

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"The runner-up John Dunbar, a US Navy Seal, led after the second transition and had a chance to win but ran out of water on the marathon course; his support crew resorted to giving him beer instead." -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironman_Triathlon