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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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I find it puzzling why a company that prizes performance and aerodynamics so highly would chose a tire that performs so poorly? Im not being sarcastic, I truly wonder.
I have HED plus 9's and erred on the side of what they recommended.
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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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...and here is Tom's combined data on that tire on a Flo9. https://bikeblather.blogspot.com/...ng-caught-up-ii.html



Thomas Gerlach wrote:
Dudaddy wrote:
Why not test the tires HED recommends for their plus rims. The Conti attack 22mm?


A lot of this was laid out in the pre-test post to help people understand why these equipment choices. The reason why is we wanted to find the fastest setup. Given how slow the Attack rolls it is not likely to be the fastest setup.


Jim Verheul
JBV Coaching.com
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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [jverheul] [ In reply to ]
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so its right there behind the 4000 on a roller test and if it mates aerodynamically as well as HED says it does with their rims it seems it could be a fast setup on a plus rim?
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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Dudaddy] [ In reply to ]
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Dudaddy wrote:
I find it puzzling why a company that prizes performance and aerodynamics so highly would chose a tire that performs so poorly? Im not being sarcastic, I truly wonder.
I have HED plus 9's and erred on the side of what they recommended.

I'm guessing but it probably tests well in the tunnel where you aren't looking at rolling resistance
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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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TG I'm replying to you but hopefully TomA will chime in as this question is really meant for him: are we being fair to the 22mm Attack by testing it at the same pressure as 23mm and 25mm tires? On the rollers there's a linear reduction in crr with pressure but wouldn't it be more appropriate to classify that as a reduction in crr due to casing tension? E.g. when comparing a 23mm GP 4000S to a 25mm GP 4000S at the same pressure, isn't that the equivalent of running a 23mm tire at a 15% higher psi? What I'm trying to say is, different width tires will have different "break point" air pressures out on the road so shouldn't we be adjusting accordingly when roller testing for crr?

I guess the wrench in this theory is the 20mm SS.
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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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GreenPlease wrote:
TG I'm replying to you but hopefully TomA will chime in as this question is really meant for him: are we being fair to the 22mm Attack by testing it at the same pressure as 23mm and 25mm tires? On the rollers there's a linear reduction in crr with pressure but wouldn't it be more appropriate to classify that as a reduction in crr due to casing tension? E.g. when comparing a 23mm GP 4000S to a 25mm GP 4000S at the same pressure, isn't that the equivalent of running a 23mm tire at a 15% higher psi? What I'm trying to say is, different width tires will have different "break point" air pressures out on the road so shouldn't we be adjusting accordingly when roller testing for crr?

I guess the wrench in this theory is the 20mm SS.

Ideally yes in a perfect world. The hard part is that break-even point is going to vary based on road surface condition, rider weight, and other factors. I can sympathize with Tom A and others in that it is nearly impossible to make recommendations for everyone. The reality is we are already splitting hairs to begin with and the idea, at least in my eyes, is to empower people with enough data that they can decide what is optimal for them specifically.


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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Dudaddy] [ In reply to ]
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Dudaddy wrote:
so its right there behind the 4000 on a roller test and if it mates aerodynamically as well as HED says it does with their rims it seems it could be a fast setup on a plus rim?

Right and the 4000 is a long long way from the Corsa Speed, Supersonic, and TT in terms of rolling. It is 4 watts just for a single tire (at 40kph). So the tire has to be 4 watts faster on the rim to get to equal with some of the better rolling tires. Most companies that want to show good aero data are going to go with tires that show good aero and narrower tires have shown to be faster. My guess is the HED would perform even better with a 20mm Supersonic but it is out of spec in terms of sizing on their rims so they don't. But this only takes into account aero. RR is a huge component of drag.


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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [wacomme] [ In reply to ]
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wacomme wrote:
OK. I think I need to switch to to the CS tires (from the old SS tires). I presume they'll mount just fine on my Flo 60 (alloy) rim and Renn 555 disc, correct?

I'm completely ignorant about tubeless. I think the Flo rim is tubeless capable; I have no idea about the Renn 555 disc rim. I'm wondering if I should go this route, or just stay with latex tubes. If I go tubeless, what's needed? Are there any good online instructions for tubeless installation? With the data showing equal performance for latex and tubeless, it seems that tubeless would give me the advantage for punctures, and thus preferred over the latex tube option.

Michael

Yes. All of our wheels are tubeless capable.

Hope that helps,


Chris Thornham
FLO Cycling
FASTER Podcast | FLO Blog | Facebook | Instagram | Twitter
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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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Does "all" mean the older styles as well or just the newer versions of the flo?
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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [aries33] [ In reply to ]
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aries33 wrote:
Does "all" mean the older styles as well or just the newer versions of the flo?

"All" means any of our new or old wheels can be set up with tubeless tires and the proper tubeless kit.


Chris Thornham
FLO Cycling
FASTER Podcast | FLO Blog | Facebook | Instagram | Twitter
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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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Canadian wrote:
aries33 wrote:
Does "all" mean the older styles as well or just the newer versions of the flo?


"All" means any of our new or old wheels can be set up with tubeless tires and the proper tubeless kit.

Sorry, just so this is clear, what is the "proper tubeless kit"?

I'm still enjoying my *first* batch flo 60s - they have probably 50,000+ kms on them. Still good!

_______________________________________________
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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Bonesbrigade] [ In reply to ]
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Bonesbrigade wrote:
Canadian wrote:
aries33 wrote:
Does "all" mean the older styles as well or just the newer versions of the flo?


"All" means any of our new or old wheels can be set up with tubeless tires and the proper tubeless kit.

Sorry, just so this is clear, what is the "proper tubeless kit"?

I'm still enjoying my *first* batch flo 60s - they have probably 50,000+ kms on them. Still good!

Just your standard Silca or Stan's tubeless conversion kit. Both companies make great solutions.


Chris Thornham
FLO Cycling
FASTER Podcast | FLO Blog | Facebook | Instagram | Twitter
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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Bonesbrigade] [ In reply to ]
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Bonesbrigade wrote:
Canadian wrote:
aries33 wrote:
Does "all" mean the older styles as well or just the newer versions of the flo?


"All" means any of our new or old wheels can be set up with tubeless tires and the proper tubeless kit.


Sorry, just so this is clear, what is the "proper tubeless kit"?

I'm still enjoying my *first* batch flo 60s - they have probably 50,000+ kms on them. Still good!

Here is an example of a Enve tubeless kit. This is the stock one that comes with the Enve 7.8 SES. I am surprised at $15 nobody has scooped it up yet.


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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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Hehe. I just snagged it. Thanks for that!
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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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I couldn't find an answer to this on your blog or either of your threads about this test. But why did you choose 25mm for the Continental GP TT rather than 23mm? I'm guessing the extra width is the reason it lagged behind the other 3 tires which were all 23's.

Matt
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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Pun_Times] [ In reply to ]
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Pun_Times wrote:
I couldn't find an answer to this on your blog or either of your threads about this test. But why did you choose 25mm for the Continental GP TT rather than 23mm? I'm guessing the extra width is the reason it lagged behind the other 3 tires which were all 23's.

The main reason we did this was because there simply wasn't a Supersonic available in 25mm otherwise we would have used that. The goal was kind of to try to find what was likely going to be the fastest combination in conjunction with roller data and some of the aero data that Flo put out there. While the 25mm isn't a Supersonic it is pretty close to what it would have been had they made one and the wider tire performed worse from an aerodynamic perspective on both the HED and Enve, although Jim has said they got a 25mm to perform well but the specifics I don't think were ever released.


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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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Gotcha. The goal of the two was compare different widths since the TT and SS are pretty much the same tire (with the TT having better flat resistance). That way you could see if the aero difference is enough to recommend the better rolling resistance of a wider tire. Thanks

Matt
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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for sharing the info on the Hed. Have you released your work on the Enve yet?
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Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [TPerry] [ In reply to ]
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I need to really do it as I have it like 50% completed. Truthfully, I really got kind of side tracked this year with dealing with my own health issues with my inner ear and dropped the ball on a lot of other side projects. I am currently in Kona with limited tech but I'll see what I can cajole together. My plan was to release it after a year to those who didn't help fund the campaign and reward the donors, but we are well past a year now as that was April 2017.


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