Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [jens] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
jens wrote:

Thanks for the data. Too bad I'm in New Zealand already. ;-(

Actually, I don't think it would have changed my choice at all. What is clear from both Tom's test and yours, is that the Jet+ wheels are very sensitive to width around the 26C range for a mounted tired. Below that, and you're good. Above that, and your drag heads south. That's why a slightly narrower Supersonic outperforms a wider one and the 25C TT is a piece of crap (aerodynamically). in short, none of the best rolling tires are aerodynamically optimal with this wheel.

Hence my choice of the old 808 with 20C Crono tubular. Still the best combination of aerodynamics and Crr around.

It's a shame you didn't test some narrower tires. I think there might be hope for the new 20C SS.


I

I am sorry, I wish I could have gotten out sooner but just wasn't possible making the drive back and then putting in 5+ training day. I hope you have a great race regardless.


Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset
Quote Reply
Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Congrats on the Clermont decision. Having lived there years ago, it's a great training environment and I hope to move there myself one of these years.
Quote Reply
Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thomas, great stuff.

I would annotate the Conti SS 23 as "New-Old" or "Old-New" so as to differentiate from the old-old SS that was pre-black chili and pre-tall aero shape.

Thomas Gerlach wrote:
Ok, I sent Dan a massage on Friday but I never heard back so I didn't want to violate his new rule regarding publishing data on here, thus I have posted the first bit of data from the Wind Tunnel Test here. Hopefully that is ok otherwise feel free to pull this thread Dan.

Please not this is just start. I will go back and update, add more data, links, raw data etc but give me some time. This is just being released right now because a bunch of people have asked what tire they should run and I want to nip the inquiries in the bud.

Given the lack of OLD 23 SS availability it seems like the Corsa Speed is probably a pretty good choice of tire.

Eric Reid
AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio Coaching and Bike Fitting
Chapel Hill, NC
Aerodynamic Optimized Bike Fitting, Retul Pre-Purchase Bike Fitting, USAT Level 1 Triathlon Coaching, Nutrition
Ask me: Scody Optimized Speed Suits | CeramicSpeed Oversized Pulley Systems | HUUB Skinsuits and Wetsuits | Bombshell Aerodynamic BMX Wheels
Quote Reply
Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [jens] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I would say old 808 or even 1080 with Conti SS 20mm "old-new"

jens wrote:

Thanks for the data. Too bad I'm in New Zealand already. ;-(

Actually, I don't think it would have changed my choice at all. What is clear from both Tom's test and yours, is that the Jet+ wheels are very sensitive to width around the 26C range for a mounted tired. Below that, and you're good. Above that, and your drag heads south. That's why a slightly narrower Supersonic outperforms a wider one and the 25C TT is a piece of crap (aerodynamically). in short, none of the best rolling tires are aerodynamically optimal with this wheel.

Hence my choice of the old 808 with 20C Crono tubular. Still the best combination of aerodynamics and Crr around.

It's a shame you didn't test some narrower tires. I think there might be hope for the new 20C SS.


I

Eric Reid
AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio Coaching and Bike Fitting
Chapel Hill, NC
Aerodynamic Optimized Bike Fitting, Retul Pre-Purchase Bike Fitting, USAT Level 1 Triathlon Coaching, Nutrition
Ask me: Scody Optimized Speed Suits | CeramicSpeed Oversized Pulley Systems | HUUB Skinsuits and Wetsuits | Bombshell Aerodynamic BMX Wheels
Quote Reply
Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
knighty76 wrote:
I wonder how much of this I can extrapolate to my Hed C2 rims which I think are 2mm narrower across the brake track. We've seen data for the Flo rims but they are also wider.

For my Renn disc I'd like to think I just go for the Corsa because it is in a P3C and the leading edge is fared. But I recall somebody clever telling me that the trailing edge matters aswell.

Damn, what to do.

Thanks for sharing Thomas.

Just order the 23mm Corsa. I put one on my Zipp FCs last night and they pass the eyeball aero test quite well. The odd thing is that they are noticably narrower than the Corsa G+ tires in the same 700x23 size
Quote Reply
Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Morelock] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Morelock wrote:
H3
Hed deep
808 (pre dimple)
Campy shamal
Velocity deep v
iO
Ultimate narrow rim showdown 2017?

I had a set of the original 808s. They started out as a dimpled, tubular only rim.
Quote Reply
Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [jens] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In light of this I'm very interested to see if/how the results change with the Enve 7 wheel that is even wider than the Jet+. I've been riding the 25mm TT on this wheel the past year and am interested to see if the RR benefit of the 25 stacks up with any CDA advantage of the super wide rim that Enve has said from the outset. I'm curious just how much or little benefit a 23 CS or SS might be over the 25TT
Quote Reply
Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [FatandSlow] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Yep you are right. Gotta brush up on my zipp history

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
Quote Reply
Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
kileyay wrote:
trail wrote:
My eyeball combination with Crr indicates this as a clear win for the CS.


If you could only get it on and off the rim, they would be the obvious choice at this point.


It didn't seem that difficult to me...and that was on a HED+ rim (and on a classic Open Pro before that).

Besides, like I've mentioned before, if you're going to run that tire, I'd plan on fixing punctures in a way that doesn't require breaking a bead off the rim. It actually can be one of that tire's advantages IMO (quick/easy puncture repair, that is) :-)

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Last edited by: Tom A.: Apr 21, 17 8:10
Quote Reply
Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
grumpier.mike wrote:
knighty76 wrote:
I wonder how much of this I can extrapolate to my Hed C2 rims which I think are 2mm narrower across the brake track. We've seen data for the Flo rims but they are also wider.

For my Renn disc I'd like to think I just go for the Corsa because it is in a P3C and the leading edge is fared. But I recall somebody clever telling me that the trailing edge matters aswell.

Damn, what to do.

Thanks for sharing Thomas.

Just order the 23mm Corsa. I put one on my Zipp FCs last night and they pass the eyeball aero test quite well. The odd thing is that they are noticably narrower than the Corsa G+ tires in the same 700x23 size

How difficult was it to install on the FC? Have you tried removing it? It was a PITA to install/remove on an enve 7.8. I've switched to an 808 nsw and super 9 and hoping it's easier
Quote Reply
Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Tom A. wrote:
Cool. Can we get the y-axis in terms of CdA? Or else indicate air speed and density that the power values represent?

If you'd like, I could create a combined aero+Crr estimate for the Corsa Speed and the old SS23 (since I have Crr values for them).


yes please

Eric Reid
AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio Coaching and Bike Fitting
Chapel Hill, NC
Aerodynamic Optimized Bike Fitting, Retul Pre-Purchase Bike Fitting, USAT Level 1 Triathlon Coaching, Nutrition
Ask me: Scody Optimized Speed Suits | CeramicSpeed Oversized Pulley Systems | HUUB Skinsuits and Wetsuits | Bombshell Aerodynamic BMX Wheels
Quote Reply
Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Yes please x2 on the combined aero / rr :)

Apex Cycling - Team Manager
Insta: chris.s.apex
Quote Reply
Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
grumpier.mike wrote:
knighty76 wrote:
I wonder how much of this I can extrapolate to my Hed C2 rims which I think are 2mm narrower across the brake track. We've seen data for the Flo rims but they are also wider.

For my Renn disc I'd like to think I just go for the Corsa because it is in a P3C and the leading edge is fared. But I recall somebody clever telling me that the trailing edge matters aswell.

Damn, what to do.

Thanks for sharing Thomas.


Just order the 23mm Corsa. I put one on my Zipp FCs last night and they pass the eyeball aero test quite well. The odd thing is that they are noticably narrower than the Corsa G+ tires in the same 700x23 size

Can you measure it? I'd imagine the 17c inner on the Zipps helps with the shape of the tire.
Quote Reply
Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ericMPro wrote:
Thomas, great stuff.

I would annotate the Conti SS 23 as "New-Old" or "Old-New" so as to differentiate from the old-old SS that was pre-black chili and pre-tall aero shape.

Thomas Gerlach wrote:
Ok, I sent Dan a massage on Friday but I never heard back so I didn't want to violate his new rule regarding publishing data on here, thus I have posted the first bit of data from the Wind Tunnel Test here. Hopefully that is ok otherwise feel free to pull this thread Dan.

Please not this is just start. I will go back and update, add more data, links, raw data etc but give me some time. This is just being released right now because a bunch of people have asked what tire they should run and I want to nip the inquiries in the bud.

Given the lack of OLD 23 SS availability it seems like the Corsa Speed is probably a pretty good choice of tire.

Thanks yep, I am going to back and do proper job highlighting various things for posterity reasons.


Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset
Quote Reply
Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks so much for providing this data, very interesting. I'm surprised the Vittoria CS was so much more aero than the TT. I ran the CS on the rear wheel last year and looks like I'll run one on the front as well this year.

Anyone have any experience converting Zipp Firecrest to tubeless? I ran a latex tube with sealant in the CS last year.
Quote Reply
Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ggeiger wrote:
Congrats on the Clermont decision. Having lived there years ago, it's a great training environment and I hope to move there myself one of these years.

Thanks Gary. Yes, I really love it here. You know as someone who commutes everywhere by bike the Tucson mornings can be very very cold (relatively) and my body just does better in heat and humidity. Just a small really dirt cheap place, but it is something and is less than rent I pay. I really liked Tucson and the riding is much better but everything is so close and small in Clermont and the community of athletes could not be better. To be able to ride my bike 2 miles to the Splash and Dash at Waterfront park is awesome. NTC with 50 meter LCM is 1.5 miles in other direction. Clermont for me = simplicity


Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset
Quote Reply
Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [tttiltheend] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tttiltheend wrote:
Thanks so much for providing this data, very interesting. I'm surprised the Vittoria CS was so much more aero than the TT. I ran the CS on the rear wheel last year and looks like I'll run one on the front as well this year.

Anyone have any experience converting Zipp Firecrest to tubeless? I ran a latex tube with sealant in the CS last year.

That GPTT is a 25mm. Not sure if you caught that. It is pretty big 25mm too. Especially on that rim.


Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset
Quote Reply
Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [astig] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
astig wrote:

How difficult was it to install on the FC? Have you tried removing it? It was a PITA to install/remove on an enve 7.8. I've switched to an 808 nsw and super 9 and hoping it's easier

FWIW on an older FC 808 with a tube it wasn't terrible. On a 1st gen shimano dura ace wheel (with the crossed spokes) it was "nearly terrible".
Quote Reply
Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thomas Gerlach wrote:
Ok, I sent Dan a massage on Friday but I never heard back

Well, this thread is certainly starting off interesting...

Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador
Quote Reply
Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Tom A. wrote:
Also...is this with fixture tare removed or included?

I find it interesting that the drag of the CS on that wheel goes up between 5 and 10d of yaw angle. In my Win Tunnel test with the 24C Turbo Cotton, the values continued to decline out to 10d.

Tom A: I sent a message to Geoff to find out exactly and here is what he said:

"We’ve had many questions about the wheel/bike mounts being tared out of the results. We and most of our clients (including wheel manufacturers) do not tare out the balance as the results would then be unrealistically skewed especially at yaw where parts of the wheel would potentially be in the aero “shadow” of the strut and the other strut would potentially be in the “shadow” of the wheel. Mounting is one of the known draw backs of all wind tunnel testing."


Tom A: What did you guys do at the Specialized tunnel.


Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset
Quote Reply
Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Travis R] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Travis R wrote:
Thomas Gerlach wrote:
Ok, I sent Dan a massage on Friday but I never heard back


Well, this thread is certainly starting off interesting...

No wonder he didn't get back to me. He probably passed out right after. Nice catch.


Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset
Quote Reply
Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thomas Gerlach wrote:
ggeiger wrote:
Congrats on the Clermont decision. Having lived there years ago, it's a great training environment and I hope to move there myself one of these years.


Thanks Gary. Yes, I really love it here. You know as someone who commutes everywhere by bike the Tucson mornings can be very very cold (relatively) and my body just does better in heat and humidity. Just a small really dirt cheap place, but it is something and is less than rent I pay. I really liked Tucson and the riding is much better but everything is so close and small in Clermont and the community of athletes could not be better. To be able to ride my bike 2 miles to the Splash and Dash at Waterfront park is awesome. NTC with 50 meter LCM is 1.5 miles in other direction. Clermont for me = simplicity

Glad you found a good place. I also love the warmer temps. I used to like riding our towards Groveland, Howie in the Hills, Leesburg and further north. I lived right next to Palisades Golf Club, so it was easy getting out. NTC was also awesome with the pool and track. I'm not sure if it has changed much, but it sure was enjoyable.
Happy ( and jealous) for you....
Quote Reply
Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Care to make a guess as to how a 23 GPTT would have plotted on your aero chart.
Quote Reply
Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Scott_B] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Scott_B wrote:
Care to make a guess as to how a 23 GPTT would have plotted on your aero chart.

I really think it is the same tire. I am sure the Vectran belt adds a little bit of surface area and could change the shape ever so slightly. If you want to go as fast possible I think you always choose the SS over the TT. If you are worried about flats I suggest always buying a couple extra tires and riding them in training until you comfortable with durabilty.


Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset
Quote Reply
Re: A2 Aero Data for Corsa Speed, Conti Supersonic and TT on HED JET+ Black [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Can you put up the Enve 7 data?
Quote Reply

Prev Next